Z
ziapueblo
Guest
next is the key…
"Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles Peter and Paul . . .”
http://www.newadvent.com/fathers/0103303.htm
What’s the point? immediately following the above citation, Saint Irenaeus writes what you quoted many times on this thread. Saint Irenaeus argument is clear. He isn’t arguing for “Papal Supremacy.” He is saying the Churches which have the Apostolic succession from founders who themselves were Apostles, a succession which he designates in other places as a "succession from the apostles” (Ibid., IV, xxvi. 2.), must of necessity be allowed on all hands to have preserved the truth which they received from their Apostolic founders. The witness he gives of these Churhes, as that of the most ancient Churches “where the Apostles went in and out” to whose Bishops who they appointed they “delivered the tradition,” in other words he is appealing to an authority that cannot be questioned. He is clear in his reasoning for using the Romans Church for his example, he says it would take to long to give the succession of all these ancient Apostolically founded Churches he uses Rome and gives Romes succession as his argument.
This gives the context of his usage of the Church of Rome in your quote and the context clearly shows he didn’t do so to prove “Papal Supremacy” but because at this time in history it was the Church in the capital city of the Empire and the Church known by all.
ZP
"Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles Peter and Paul . . .”
http://www.newadvent.com/fathers/0103303.htm
What’s the point? immediately following the above citation, Saint Irenaeus writes what you quoted many times on this thread. Saint Irenaeus argument is clear. He isn’t arguing for “Papal Supremacy.” He is saying the Churches which have the Apostolic succession from founders who themselves were Apostles, a succession which he designates in other places as a "succession from the apostles” (Ibid., IV, xxvi. 2.), must of necessity be allowed on all hands to have preserved the truth which they received from their Apostolic founders. The witness he gives of these Churhes, as that of the most ancient Churches “where the Apostles went in and out” to whose Bishops who they appointed they “delivered the tradition,” in other words he is appealing to an authority that cannot be questioned. He is clear in his reasoning for using the Romans Church for his example, he says it would take to long to give the succession of all these ancient Apostolically founded Churches he uses Rome and gives Romes succession as his argument.
This gives the context of his usage of the Church of Rome in your quote and the context clearly shows he didn’t do so to prove “Papal Supremacy” but because at this time in history it was the Church in the capital city of the Empire and the Church known by all.
ZP
