The Universal Church

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steve-b said:
You’re challenging Mary being ever virgin. HERE So I gave you what Justin Martyr wrote about Mary remaining a virgin no intercourse, yet was pregnant with Jesus. While Joseph agreed to take Mary as his wife, Mary was literally the spouse of the HS. She isn’t going to violate that nor would Joseph
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Yes, the scripture is clear that they didn’t “know each other” until after Christ was born.
 
@lanman87,

. . . . As for Immaculate Conception.

It stands to reason that God would preserve Our Lady from Original Sin so she’d be a fitting vessel through which our salvation enters our world. Since Our Lady is the New Eve and is attested as early as Saint Justin Martyr; how could Our Lady be in opposition to the devil if she was subject to sin or ever sinned?
 
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steve-b said:
The scripture you accept, came from the Catholic Church. If you now aren’t accepting the Authority of the Catholic Church, you then as a Protestant have nothing to point to for anything you base your belief system on.
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So your answer is “Because I say so”.
 
The answer is @lanman87, is that the Scriptures you argue your errors with us on came from the Catholic Church; canonized in 382. The Bible is OUR ground that you misunderstand and twist.
 
@lanman87,

Nope. Even Moses and every other human being in Scripture sinned. Despite being very faithful and dedicated to God.

Try again.
 
lanman87 said:
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steve-b:
You’re challenging Mary being ever virgin. HERE So I gave you what Justin Martyr wrote about Mary remaining a virgin no intercourse, yet was pregnant with Jesus. While Joseph agreed to take Mary as his wife, Mary was literally the spouse of the HS. She isn’t going to violate that nor would Joseph
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Yes, the scripture is clear that they didn’t “know each other” until after Christ was born.
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Re: Until Then

Scripture’s statement that Joseph “knew [Mary] not until she brought forth her firstborn” would not necessarily mean they did “know” each other after she brought forth Jesus. Until is often used in Scripture as part of an idiomatic expression similar to our own usage in English. I may say to you, “Until we meet again, God bless you.” Does that necessarily mean after we meet again, God curse you? By no means. A phrase like this is used to emphasize what is being described before the until is fulfilled. It is not intended to say anything about the future beyond that point. Here are some biblical examples:
  • 2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to ( until ) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?)
  • 1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?)
  • 1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, “he will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”)
For context and further reading HERE
 
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lanman87 said:
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steve-b:
The scripture you accept, came from the Catholic Church. If you now aren’t accepting the Authority of the Catholic Church, you then as a Protestant have nothing to point to for anything you base your belief system on.
Click to expand...
So your answer is “Because I say so”.
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I’m saying

You’re sawing off the branch you’re sitting on.
 
@lanman87,

Does Scripture ever state she sinned?

If you were God; wouldn’t you want your son to be born of a pure and sinless woman?

You’re trying hard. And flailing.
 
Michael16 said:
Does Scripture ever state she sinned?
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Does it ever say she didn’t? The scriptures do say that “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. I would assume that Mary, as a human person of age, fits that description.
 
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🤔 @lanman87,

So, you’re playing that double speak thing?
I’m SO tired of that game. We refute you on explicit statements and you guys go straight to “ Does it say she didn’t? “

Still: DOES Scripture EVER SAY she sinned?
 
I pointing out that it is silent on the issue. It never says she does and it never says she doesn’t. (unless you think the ALL I referred to includes Mary)
 
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. . . . Now, I’ve demonstrated the truth that Our Lady never sinned. Thus, the Immaculate Conception holds and now you’re playing games with @steve-b about Scripture statements?
 
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@lanman87,

I stated the truth. She never sinned and Scripture never says otherwise.
 
🤔 @lanman87.

Still Scripture never stated she did. And I see that, when it suits you; you’ll see direct literal statements in Scripture.
 
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