"The Universal Mediatrix"

[mpartyka]

It is strange to see people have to defend Marian devotion to one who claims to be Orthodox.

I only ever got to catechumen level. I changed my profile to read “Christian” to avoid future confusion.

–Mike

 

[mpartyka]

Pope Leo XIII has left us his most striking pronouncement of this subject…

“With equal truth can it be affirmed that, by the will of God, nothing of the immense treasure of every grace which the Lord has accumulated, comes to us except through Mary…This design of such dear mercy realized by God in Mary and confirmed by the testimony of Christ (John 19:26-27), was understood from the beginning and accepted with the utmost joy by the Holy Apostles and the earliest believers. It was also the belief and teaching of the venerable Fathers of the Church. All Christian peoples of every age accepted it unanimously…”

Wow. Personally, having read the majority of the ECFs extant writings online, I’d say that’s either a flat-out lie or the most ignorant statement concerning the development of Mariology I’ve ever heard. Thank God it wasn’t ex cathedra, huh?

–Mike

 

[Tomster]

Wow. Personally, having read the majority of the ECFs extant writings online, I’d say that’s either a flat-out lie or the most ignorant statement concerning the development of Mariology I’ve ever heard. Thank God it wasn’t ex cathedra, huh?

–Mike

It was just the ordinary teachings on faith and morals given to us by the Supreme Pontiffs which all Catholics must give assent to.

 

[mich2]

Wisdom is traditionally understood to refer to Christ, who is “the power and wisdom of God” according to St. Paul. True, wisdom is depicted as female, but God the Son as God has no real gender (just as God the Father is not actually a male just because we use the male gender when referring to Him).

–Mike

I do agree that Christ is the Power and Wisdom
of God. Nothing which exists in Mary can be absent in God.
However, the personification of Wisdom, being that of spouse of God would be, in my opinion, the unity God has with His creation being shown between her and Christ. In this respect, both are called Wisdom of God. However, Christ is not female.
While I agree that God has no gender, He does indeed reveal Himself as Father and not Mother. He does this for a particular reason, eventhough it might be symbolic in nature. The unity between a man and a woman symbolize the unity between Christ and the Church in terms of a female. The female is therefore other than Christ and is human, not divine.
Andre

 

[BRB1]

I find it even more interesting that the ECFs tended to believe that Christ passed through Mary’s birth canal without breaken her hymen. One would think that a broken hymen would testify to the reality of the Incarnation, but the ECFs refused to even consider that Mary would be any less physically a virgin than she was as a matter of fact.

More on question of [Mary’s ??] labor pains … found in Isaiah 66:7-8

“Before she was in labor she gave birth; before her pain came upon her she was delivered of a son. Who has heard such at thing? Who has seen such things ? Shall a land be born in one day ? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment ? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her sons.”

It would seem that the Church sees this in reference to Mary and Christ. Its hard not to see Christ in practically every Chapter of Isaiah … and Christ frequently referenced himself to scriptures of Isaiah.

Does this make the case ? Is it a proof text ?