The Universe is not eternal - Stephen Hawking

[Charlemagne_II]

**At best, the atheist and theist hypothesis balance on their explanations of the universe, although I think it’s more improbable on theism than on atheism. **

An atheist could have easily said this a hundred years ago, asserting the eternal existence of the universe against the claim of Genesis that there was a beginning to time itself.

But since the Big Bang agree more with Genesis than with the eternal universe hypothesis, the improbability is more on the atheist’s side than the theist’s.

Genesis, 1000 B.C. : “Let there be light.”

Carl Sagan in Cosmos, 1980 A.D.

“Ten or twenty billion years ago, something happened – the Big Bang, the event that began our universe…. In that titanic cosmic explosion, the universe began an expansion which has never ceased…. As space stretched, the matter and energy in the universe expanded with it and rapidly cooled. The radiation of the cosmic fireball, which, then as now, filled the universe, moved through the spectrum – from gamma rays to X-rays to ultraviolet light; through the rainbow colors of the visible spectrum; into the infrared and radio regions. The remnants of that fireball, the cosmic background radiation, emanating from all parts of the sky can be detected by radio telescopes today. In the early universe, space was brilliantly illuminated.”

 

[Perplexity]

**At best, the atheist and theist hypothesis balance on their explanations of the universe, although I think it’s more improbable on theism than on atheism. **

An atheist could have easily said this a hundred years ago, asserting the eternal existence of the universe against the claim of Genesis that there was a beginning to time itself.

But since the Big Bang agree more with Genesis than with the eternal universe hypothesis, the improbability is more on the atheist’s side than the theist’s.

Genesis, 1000 B.C. : “Let there be light.”

Carl Sagan in Cosmos, 1980 A.D.

“Ten or twenty billion years ago, something happened – the Big Bang, the event that began our universe…. In that titanic cosmic explosion, the universe began an expansion which has never ceased…. As space stretched, the matter and energy in the universe expanded with it and rapidly cooled. The radiation of the cosmic fireball, which, then as now, filled the universe, moved through the spectrum – from gamma rays to X-rays to ultraviolet light; through the rainbow colors of the visible spectrum; into the infrared and radio regions. The remnants of that fireball, the cosmic background radiation, emanating from all parts of the sky can be detected by radio telescopes today. In the early universe, space was brilliantly illuminated.”

Why can’t the atheist adopt the big bang models? According to those models, time began to exist when the universe did, so the universe has always existed (i.e., at every point in time the universe exists).

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Perplexity

**Why can’t the atheist adopt the big bang models? **

The Big Bang model does not allow for an uncaused or uncreated universe, which virtually all atheists subscribed to before the Big Bang was discovered.

 

[NonServiam]

But, there’s plenty of evidence; it’s all over these fora. But, you reject it.

. No. It’s insufficient to support the claim that a disembodied intelligence exists.

The so-called “evidence” tends to boil down to 1) a handful of amusing word games that aren’t actually evidence at all, since one can construct a perfectly logical argument on the back of false premises and arrive at a logical but false answer; 2) a bunch of weirdly-phrased arguments from ignorance; or 3) appeals to “personal experience” that are just interpreted in light of the desired conclusion.

tonyrey:

Is there any evidence that an unintelligent force did it?

That’s not the issue. The claim we’re talking about is the claim that an intelligent being created the universe.

If the evidence is insufficient, then one has no good reason to accept the claim.

Whether an unintelligent force created the universe is an entirely different claim, and it’s one that’s beyond the scope of the conversation at present.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

NonServiam
**
If the evidence is insufficient, then one has no good reason to accept the claim. **

The evidence is sufficient to those who have eyes to see it.

For those who have plucked out their own eyes … well, good luck to them!

 

[Perplexity]

Perplexity

**Why can’t the atheist adopt the big bang models? **

The Big Bang model does not allow for an uncaused or uncreated universe, which virtually all atheists subscribed to before the Big Bang was discovered.

According to the Big Bang models, the Big Bang is what caused the universe. I think you’re talking about whether the Big Bang itself was caused, something the models are silent on.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Perplexity

I think you’re talking about whether the Big Bang itself was caused, something the models are silent on.

Yes, because they don’t want to go anywhere that God might be.

 

[Relinquish]

Perplexity

I think you’re talking about whether the Big Bang itself was caused, something the models are silent on.

Yes, because they don’t want to go anywhere that God might be.

I see absolutely no reason to believe that God caused the big bang. And no it’s not because they don’t want to know what came before the big bang, it’s because they can’t know given our current understanding of physics.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Relinquish

I see absolutely no reason to believe that God caused the big bang.

That’s because no reason to believe in God. Nor do you want a reason.

 

[Relinquish]

Relinquish

I see absolutely no reason to believe that God caused the big bang.

That’s because no reason to believe in God. Nor do you want a reason.

I see that you claim you ‘practiced’ atheism for 25 years. What does it mean to ‘practice’ atheism? I wonder if you used to take part in such foolishness as psychoanalyzing people you know nothing about before you were a theist, or if that’s something they taught you in Catholic school.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Relinquish

**I see that you claim you ‘practiced’ atheism for 25 years. What does it mean to ‘practice’ atheism? I wonder if you used to take part in such foolishness as psychoanalyzing people you know nothing about before you were a theist, or if that’s something they taught you in Catholic school. **

I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you rephrase the question?

 

[DennisTate]

According to the Big Bang models, the Big Bang is what caused the universe. I think you’re talking about whether the Big Bang itself was caused, something the models are silent on.

Actually The Cyclic Model of the Universe fits astonishingly well with what Mellen Benedict reports being shown during his near death experience!

 

[karlaa]

hello there, well i do not know who this guy is but i totaly dismiss the afirmation related to an eternal univers…of course it is eternal…i mean how did he prove this, by the way? i am just curious to see can keen to ‘find out’

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