The Value of Education

[chevalier]

In your opinion:
-Is the purpose of college only to increase the amount of money you will make in your career?

Nope. You can make money without formal education. Some job lines won’t be open without a university degree in the field, which makes one a necessity (medicine, law, engineering, science). Benefits don’t come down to just money, either.

-Is learning about the world God created an intrinsically worthy pursuit?

St. Escriva believed learning was a duty if one was capable of it.

-Is the enjoyment of learning enough reason to want to continue schooling?

Does everything need a compelling reason? Is learning bad unless proven good?

-Would most people quit school after high school if there were no monetary advantage in continuing? (in this case college would probably cost less too)

Who knows. Some people already do because they can get good stable jobs after highschool whereas university students are typically poor and indebted, while graduates don’t always have an easy life, either.

Also, some people have degree jobs that pay worse than jobs which don’t require one. Don’t qualified miners or steel workers earn more than school teachers in the states? Here drivers earn more than medics.

-Would fewer women wish to continue schooling if they could be assured they would never have to provide for themselves?

Possible. Depends a lot on the type of school. Women are generally less likely to choose the field of education basing on monetary prospects, by the way, I think.

-Is extra education worth the cost if the benefits it provides are not monetary?

Say you want to be a judge or a medical doctor or an architect. Not getting the degree means not being able to do your job. Money isn’t an issue. Do you care? I’d guess a normal person actually does, if he feels a strong calling in some direction.

-What other benefits does education provide and are they satisfied by a high school diploma?

Knowledge. Scientific activities and academic work. Ability to pass knowledge on, to influence the world… In my case, I’d feel bad if I were to stop below what I could achieve. Okay, what I could achieve without overworking myself too much (means I could pull off more if I were more systematic and dutiful). I just couldn’t not do my Ph.D., while even my father initially believed it was superfluous and so did much of my family. I wasn’t really prepared for it even in the middle of my Master’s course. At some point I simply discovered I couldn’t stop. I couldn’t not continue. I had to do it. And I won’t likely earn more with it than without it. In some instances, I may even earn less, considering that in certain situations academic people are believed not to be practical enough, although in many a doctorate is a token certificate of skill (I’m talking about law here).

In the other thread, MichaelSaint said he would not marry a women who had debt from college loans.

Well, I would. If I could afford it and she wanted to keep studying, I would pay for it and convince her not to think twice about it. Especially if she were to stay home - staying home doesn’t mean you can’t write or work from home. A freelance writer doesn’t need to stay in the office or work 8 hour days, or even continuous intervals. Neither does a lawyer. A doctor has more of a problem with having patients over in his house, but that too can be overcome. In fact, many skilled jobs which don’t require more than highschool in terms of formal education, can be done from home as well.

And if not professional work, there’s always charity work and there a degree counts as well - especially there it counts how much you know and what you can do, rather than just the papers.

He said it was irresponsible of her to incur debt if she would not be making money from her education later. This implies that her education would be a waste of money.

Even an average pay allows you to pay back that kind of debts after some time. Even if you don’t earn more than you otherwise would, but you get a job that pays at least average, you should still be able to pay back the loan and who says you can’t get educated for other reasons than money? I think what he meant was that one shouldn’t incur debts irresponsibly.

IMHO, the purpose of education is NOT to make money.

Depends what kind of money we’re talking about. Comfortable income can be achieved without a degree, in a skilled job, especially if you’re good at it and the market isn’t flooded. I’m a Ph.D. student in law, working in an international law firm now, and my best buddy works as a technician in a small business that performs quite ambitious tasks in setting up networks and similar jobs, having highschool education and not being a formally qualified technician yet, actually (he’s just good and has solid work ethics and a lot of competence, while being good with people and an able communicator). We earn about the same. I easily see him having his own business with more than comfortable earnings in a couple of years.

My desire for education (particularly in chemistry and biology) comes from a love of learning and a desire to know the truth.

I like to use my brain to make connections and explore cause and effect. I want to know how the world works, even if it costs money but doesn’t make me any.

Aww. That is a perfectly admirable quality. And quite endearing.

I also think there are practical benefits that do come from education. It makes me respond to situations more rationally.

Yup.

 

[chevalier]

It disciplines the mind so that I don’t make decisions based on emotions or selfish desires.

Yup. Actually, educated people can be quite immature emotionally too, but I’ve seen what law training can do when it comes to the ability to assess facts and their consequences.

It leads me to consider my own existence and the debt I owe to my creator.

Anyways, I believe that if a person still has a desire to learn after high school he or she should continue on with a college education. I don’t care if the person is female or male. Monetary concerns are valid if you cannot provide your basic needs, but I think the only way you waste money on an education is by not really learning anything.

Yup. Money is a means of purchasing goods. Once basic needs are met, goods are a way of assuring comfort. Once comfort is assured, goods are more or less simply means of finding pleasure. This means money is then simply means of assuring pleasure - pleasurable sensations coming from some things you can get for money. Education gives you a lot intellectually, emotionally and spiritually, above what money can buy you. Even in sheer utilitarian terms, if you like what you get from your education, your money isn’t wasted. It would be wasted on material goods if they didn’t bring you satisfaction.

With me, if I could afford it and I had the time to take courses and study, I’d put most of my income in new courses, qualifications, degrees… at the very least language classes and books about things that interest me. Other people would prefer to look at fine arts, watch films, read fine literature… sure. And some would prefer beer and telly - why not. “To each his own,” would be a platitude, though I generally think we don’t really need to review people’s spending arrangements if they work for them.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I have a BA courtesy of Uncle Sam and the US Navy. I am glad I have it. I also have CompTIA and Microsoft certificates. I have also learned how to correctly cite law, format some legal documents, make a bookshelf out of wood, paint walls, sand and refinish wood floors, tune an engine, change oil, change a tire, and a ton of other stuff.

Is college for everybody, a 4-year degree or a 6-year grad degree? No. Should everybody learn all the time? YES!!! Can a degree, the piece of paper, get a person a better job? Sure. Does it matter if it’s from Harvard or University of Phoenix? Sometimes, but not always. Should somebody go into big-time debt to get a degree? Maybe, but probably there is a better way to go about it without debt.

Life does not come with a road map and direction book. If one could look ahead and say, “Hmm, OK. I’m going to marry this guy, and on April 31, 2020, he will die and I will be left to support myself and five kids” one would have skills to support them, along with a passel of life insurance.

 

[Michael_Saint]

IMHO, the purpose of education is NOT to make money. My desire for education (particularly in chemistry and biology) comes from a love of learning and a desire to know the truth. I like to use my brain to make connections and explore cause and effect. I want to know how the world works, even if it costs money but doesn’t make me any.

First of all, I did not say the only point of an education was to make money. I think there are other benefits to education - though I am not sure for SAHM’s (or future SAHM’s) that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

Learning “biology” and “chemistry”, pursuing a “love of learning” and fulfilling your “desire to know the truth”, “using your brain to make connections”, etc.: A college education to the tune of 10K to 20K a year is NOT AT ALL necessary for this. You want to learn about biology? Go on the internet, go to the library and take out books.

And if you think you need a college education to satisfy your “love of learning”, how are you going to satisfy that desire for the 50 years after you get your degree? Unless you are a career student, you will have to do it in the way I outlined above.

My education program stressed the idea of “lifelong learning”. The point: what you get in university is the bare bones minimum. The “real” learning takes place (and continues) after you leave.

 

[Michael_Saint]

Notice, Jessamy, how many people in this thread - and the other thread - talk about having a “back up plan b/c you never know if we women will have to work” reason for getting a degree. Nothing about fulfillment or love for learning - mere practical necessity in case things don’t work out so well (ie. husband dies, husband unemployed, divorce, etc.).

 

[Michael_Saint]

Even if you don’t earn more than you otherwise would, but you get a job that pays at least average, you should still be able to pay back the loan and who says you can’t get educated for other reasons than money? I think what he meant was that one shouldn’t incur debts irresponsibly.

True enough, but here is the fact: I believe it is both irresponsible and immoral to allow yourself to “fall in love” and get married years before you are ready to support kids. So to work three or four years to pay off debts and “NFP it” until then is something I want to avoid for the sake of my soul, and for the sake of my marriage. It is like Dr. Miravalle said in one of his lectures in my Christian Spirituality class - the contraceptive mentality (which is quite possible to have when practicing NFP - it is not enough just to use the method, one must use it for the right reasons: and using it so one can “get their degree” is not a “grave reason”) is one that tends to foster selfishness at the very root of the marriage union - and it tends to come back and bite you in the rear end. The more you have selfish sex, the more selfish you become. That is fatal to a marriage.

I don’t want to hear about how all you people “contracepted” or practiced NFP irresponsibly and it hasn’t hurt your marriage - the fact is, there are exceptions to every rule, but I don’t want to live life hoping I’ll be the “exception” - I want to do the right thing.

 

[SeekerJen]

Notice, SeekerJen, how many people in this thread - and the other thread - talk about having a “back up plan b/c you never know if we women will have to work” reason for getting a degree. Nothing about fulfillment or love for learning - mere practical necessity in case things don’t work out so well (ie. husband dies, husband unemployed, divorce, etc.).

I’m not sure why you singled me out for this response. What is your point?

 

[Carolinagirl411]

True enough, but here is the fact: I believe it is both irresponsible and immoral to allow yourself to “fall in love” and get married years before you are ready to support kids.

I’m not sure about you but I don’t see how someone can control when and how and who they fall in love with. Love is a gift and I don’t believe people can force it or forgo it b/c it is the “moral” thing to do. I wasn’t planning on falling in love and getting engaged but I feel in my deepest heart that God has led me to the person He wants me to be with and I let Him make the decisions about timing. I do happen to have debt from my Master’s program which I feel is irrelevant b/c God is leading me down a path. Who am I to alter his plans just b/c I have debt from college which most people who have attended college have.

If you did not mean it in that way then I’m sorry for interpreting it incorrectly and hope you won’t hold it against me.

 

[PaulinVA]

True enough, but here is the fact: I believe it is both irresponsible and immoral to allow yourself to “fall in love” and get married years before you are ready to support kids. So to work three or four years to pay off debts and “NFP it” until then is something I want to avoid for the sake of my soul, and for the sake of my marriage. … The more you have selfish sex, the more selfish you become. That is fatal to a marriage.

I don’t want to hear about how all you people “contracepted” or practiced NFP irresponsibly and it hasn’t hurt your marriage - the fact is, there are exceptions to every rule, but I don’t want to live life hoping I’ll be the “exception” - I want to do the right thing.

I had written a long response to this, but charity prevents me from posting it.

Suffice to say that you posted your opinion as fact and I disagree with you.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I’m not sure why you singled me out for this response. What is your point?

Ah, read again - I made the mistake of thinking you posted it. I have now edited it to read the name of the poster.

My sincere apologies.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I’m not sure about you but I don’t see how someone can control when and how and who they fall in love with. Love is a gift and I don’t believe people can force it or forgo it b/c it is the “moral” thing to do. I wasn’t planning on falling in love and getting engaged but I feel in my deepest heart that God has led me to the person He wants me to be with and I let Him make the decisions about timing. I do happen to have debt from my Master’s program which I feel is irrelevant b/c God is leading me down a path. Who am I to alter his plans just b/c I have debt from college which most people who have attended college have.

If you did not mean it in that way then I’m sorry for interpreting it incorrectly and hope you won’t hold it against me.

The fact is, “falling in love” is a decision. I know God is not calling me to marriage right now - as a result, although I get attracted to various girls, it would be irresponsible for me to call them up, invite them out so I can hang out with them, spending time with them, etc. It isn’t the initial “meeting” that ends up in a relationship in which one is drawn to get married - it is all the “follow up” meetings and talks: the long walks, the going out for dinner and movies, etc. “Falling in love” takes our effort and full cooperation.

You may “feel” called, but is that just because you “desire” it, or because God honestly called you to it? For instance, if you are practicing NFP because you are not financially stable enough for children, or not in a state in life where it is practical, or if you married a non-Catholic, I would say you were not indeed called to marry at this time or that person.

The most common problem in “discernment” is to think our “feelings” and “desires” are really God’s will, and that we convince ourselves that what WE want is really what GOD wants for us. This is not necessarily true. If that were the case, Abraham would have never sacrificed Isaac.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I had written a long response to this, but charity prevents me from posting it.

Suffice to say that you posted your opinion as fact and I disagree with you.

Would charity prevent you from PM’ing me? I am one who wants and appreciates the truth.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

The fact is, “falling in love” is a decision. I know God is not calling me to marriage right now - as a result, although I get attracted to various girls, it would be irresponsible for me to call them up, invite them out so I can hang out with them, spending time with them, etc. It isn’t the initial “meeting” that ends up in a relationship in which one is drawn to get married - it is all the “follow up” meetings and talks: the long walks, the going out for dinner and movies, etc. “Falling in love” takes our effort and full cooperation.

You may “feel” called, but is that just because you “desire” it, or because God honestly called you to it? For instance, if you are practicing NFP because you are not financially stable enough for children, or not in a state in life where it is practical, or if you married a non-Catholic, I would say you were not indeed called to marry at this time or that person.

The most common problem in “discernment” is to think our “feelings” and “desires” are really God’s will, and that we convince ourselves that what WE want is really what GOD wants for us. This is not necessarily true. If that were the case, Abraham would have never sacrificed Isaac.

I’m not practicing NFP and he is Catholic. But who are you to determine that someone is not supposed to be with another person if they aren’t catholic? Maybe God was calling that person to be an example to the non catholic to bring them home. I’ve talked to several couples in which that was the case. I was actually planning on joining the Dominican Sisters of Saint Cecelia and then I met my fiance. The timing and the different things that happened during that time led me to believe that being a sister was not my true calling and that being with this person was!

I pray fervently to God to show me His way and i can only trust that is what He is doing. I am acting out of faith, you are acting out of presumption on your own part that something is immoral. If you feel you personally aren’t ready for a relationship then that’s fine, b/c that is your life but never presume that what works for you is supposed to be the path of other people and never state as fact that something is immoral when it is your own opinion. God works in mysterious ways and has a different path for everyone.

 

[ragdollheart]

In your opinion:
-Is the purpose of college only to increase the amount of money you will make in your career?
~ Absolutely not. I’m finishing up my first (real) year of college (I took several college courses in high school) and absolutely not! College gives you an experience that can’t be likened to anything else. You live, go to class with, and do activities with a very diverse population! People from different races, places, and, yes, religions. Even if you are devoutly Catholic, I think it is incredibly important to meet and deal with people from other religions. It gives you a peek into their world and helps you understand and love them.

-Is learning about the world God created an intrinsically worthy pursuit?
~ I think so, yes. God’s world is amazing … if you like to learn, why is it bad to learn about God’s world?

-Is the enjoyment of learning enough reason to want to continue schooling?
~ Again, I think so. It is enough reason to WANT to continue schooling. Financial difficulties or other factors could influence a person’s decision on whether or not to actually do so. There should be other reasons if your family is financially pressed or something, or if you have lots of kids.

-Would most people quit school after high school if there were no monetary advantage in continuing? (in this case college would probably cost less too)
~ That’s a tough question. I think the experience of college is just as important as the higher chances for financial success. I guess it would depend on how much more college would cost.

-Would fewer women wish to continue schooling if they could be assured they would never have to provide for themselves?
~ If I could be assured I’d never have to provide for myself, I’d still go to college. Just because I want to be a wife and mother doesn’t mean I don’t want a career of my own.

-Is extra education worth the cost if the benefits it provides are not monetary?
~ Yes. The experience with other people and the education and awesome stuff you learn and do are completely worth it. I mean, a $50,000-a-year education may not be, but if you have good scholarships and such, it’s more realistic to go to school to go to school, not just to make big bucks someday. There’s more to life than money.

-What other benefits does education provide and are they satisfied by a high school diploma?
~ For me, no. I went to a public school where 90% of the community was white and Protestant. I felt like a minority there just because I was Catholic. Going to school where I do, the world is much more diverse. Not only does it help me get to know other people and other viewpoints, it is helping me to strengthen my views and my faith, because I have to stand up against opposition and work with people from different walks of life. I have a biased view on this, but there it is.

I also feel like God called me to go to school here, because, before I came, I was terrified and worried over many things, and amazingly, all those worries were calmed by a number of things – it was like God was telling me everything was going to be okay, that He had it all under control.

 

[BlueRubies]

I do not think it is a waste of time to educate women even if we are staying in the home - I mean, this goes back to the argument that women are not as good as men - in a way. I mean, if I was dating (I am married, but suppose I was not for a moment) who told me I must stay home if we got married and he would not mary me if I had debt from college and wouldn’t be working, I would tell him to take a hike. He’s no better than me. He doesn’t “deserve” it more than me, even if I am staying at home.

So, if I wanted to deepen my faith and took a BA in religion, that would be a waste in his eyes? What a shame on a person that thinks that.

Also, in a sad way, it seems to me that annulments are very easy for Catholics to get nowadays, and with the rate that even Catholics are getting divorced/separated, it is in the woman’s best interest to have a degree so she can take care of her kids. We don’t like to think about this, but it is a fact of life unfortunately.

I recommend all women (if they want) to become college educated.

 

[ragdollheart]

I do not think it is a waste of time to educate women even if we are staying in the home - I mean, this goes back to the argument that women are not as good as men - in a way. I mean, if I was dating (I am married, but suppose I was not for a moment) who told me I must stay home if we got married and he would not mary me if I had debt from college and wouldn’t be working, I would tell him to take a hike. He’s no better than me. He doesn’t “deserve” it more than me, even if I am staying at home.

So, if I wanted to deepen my faith and took a BA in religion, that would be a waste in his eyes? What a shame on a person that thinks that.

Also, in a sad way, it seems to me that annulments are very easy for Catholics to get nowadays, and with the rate that even Catholics are getting divorced/separated, it is in the woman’s best interest to have a degree so she can take care of her kids. We don’t like to think about this, but it is a fact of life unfortunately.

I recommend all women (if they want) to become college educated.

I agree completely. And in some cases the woman is more inclined to go to school anyway. What if she ends up with a better career than her husband?

Do you think it’s wrong for women to work? Especially today, when living costs are on the rise? Do you think it’s wrong for men to be stay-at-home dads? Even if they work from home or have their own home-based business?

It goes back to the fact that every person and every situation is incredibly different. It’s important to remember that what might be right for one person might not be for the next.

I also think it’s foolish for a young woman to assume she is going to be a stay-at-home mother and not go to school because of that. Women are equal to men – slightly different in the talents and abilities that God has given us, in some ways – but they deserve the chance for an education and career just as much as a man does.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I’m not practicing NFP and he is Catholic. But who are you to determine that someone is not supposed to be with another person if they aren’t catholic? Maybe God was calling that person to be an example to the non catholic to bring them home. I’ve talked to several couples in which that was the case. I was actually planning on joining the Dominican Sisters of Saint Cecelia and then I met my fiance. The timing and the different things that happened during that time led me to believe that being a sister was not my true calling and that being with this person was!

I pray fervently to God to show me His way and i can only trust that is what He is doing. I am acting out of faith, you are acting out of presumption on your own part that something is immoral. If you feel you personally aren’t ready for a relationship then that’s fine, b/c that is your life but never presume that what works for you is supposed to be the path of other people and never state as fact that something is immoral when it is your own opinion. God works in mysterious ways and has a different path for everyone.

If you read what the Church says about mixed marriage and how She frowns upon it, and if you read every instance in the Bible where mixed marriage is discussed, you would not believe God calls anyone to a mixed marriage.

God sometimes ALLOWS mixed marriages, and sometimes He brings the ultimate good out of it - the conversion of the non-Catholic spouse. But this is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Michael_Saint]

BTW, Carolinagirl411, congratulations on your entry into the Church at Easter Vigil. Welcome “home”.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I agree completely. And in some cases the woman is more inclined to go to school anyway. What if she ends up with a better career than her husband?

Do you think it’s wrong for women to work? Especially today, when living costs are on the rise? Do you think it’s wrong for men to be stay-at-home dads? Even if they work from home or have their own home-based business?

It goes back to the fact that every person and every situation is incredibly different. It’s important to remember that what might be right for one person might not be for the next.

I also think it’s foolish for a young woman to assume she is going to be a stay-at-home mother and not go to school because of that. Women are equal to men – slightly different in the talents and abilities that God has given us, in some ways – but they deserve the chance for an education and career just as much as a man does.

A woman has every right to get the same education as men do. I agree.

However, radical feminism have convinced you Catholic girls that men and women should both hold down jobs, or even that it’s good for the man to stay at home while the woman wins the bread. This is not a Catholic worldview. God created male and female, and gave them different roles. The Church’s teachings have long recognized this, and even Vatican II talks about “the proper ends Divine Providence assigns to each sex in the family and in society” (Decree on Education), and also says that “the children, especially the younger among them, need the care of their mother at home. This domestic role of hers must be safely preserved” (Gaudium et Spes, 52). Can’t even claim the “spirit of Vatican II” on this issue, ladies.

Look, if a woman wants a career, by all means she should get herself an education. If a woman wants an education for other reasons, by all means she should get one - but she should NOT rack up tens of thousands in debt doing it unless she is resolved to abstain from dating until at least after college so she doesn’t have to “burden” her husband with all of it. That is not a really loving thing to do now, is it? Love is to “will or to do good for the other”. I don’t see how racking up massive debts, rushing into a marriage and family before or right after grad, then letting your husband work his butt off to pay it off is loving.

You want an education? Do it responsibly - don’t spend a whole pile of money, try to pay a good portion of it off before you start “dating”, unless you have a rather small debt - in which case it’s not so bad. I would “date” (actually “court”) a Steubenville girl if her parents had chipped in a bit, if sponsors had chipped in a bit more, and if most of it was covered by her working her butt off (with a few student loans here and there to help her). If she had a small amount to pay back after that (ie. 10 to 15 K), that would be fine - I would gladly fit the bill for it. The situation I just described with Miss Anonymous would certainly demonstrate character, and I guarantee she’d make one heck of a wife.

 

[ragdollheart]

A woman has every right to get the same education as men do. I agree.

However, radical feminism have convinced you Catholic girls that men and women should both hold down jobs, or even that it’s good for the man to stay at home while the woman wins the bread. This is not a Catholic worldview. God created male and female, and gave them different roles. The Church’s teachings have long recognized this, and even Vatican II talks about “the proper ends Divine Providence assigns to each sex in the family and in society” (Decree on Education), and also says that “the children, especially the younger among them, need the care of their mother at home. This domestic role of hers must be safely preserved” (Gaudium et Spes, 52). Can’t even claim the “spirit of Vatican II” on this issue, ladies.

Look, if a woman wants a career, by all means she should get herself an education. If a woman wants an education for other reasons, by all means she should get one - but she should NOT rack up tens of thousands in debt doing it unless she is resolved to abstain from dating until at least after college so she doesn’t have to “burden” her husband with all of it. That is not a really loving thing to do now, is it? Love is to “will or to do good for the other”. I don’t see how racking up massive debts, rushing into a marriage and family before or right after grad, then letting your husband work his butt off to pay it off is loving.

I would never expect my future husband to pay off my debts. I have made sure that I won’t have a ridiculous amount of money to pay off after school – I will have a lot to pay off, but nothing I won’t be able to handle. It’s not my future husband’s responsibility, it’s mine.

And I am by no means a radical feminist. I do believe that if a spouse stays home, it usually should be the mother. And I think there are benefits to mothers staying at home. But my mother worked eleven hour days after my parents divorced and she and I are very, very close, and I turned out just fine. I was a good kid in high school and am still a good kid. Both me and my boyfriend support more traditional views on a lot of things. And when it comes down to it, I am willing to submit to my husband’s decisions in most cases, as long as my opinions and thoughts have been taken into account with respect and love.

God did create men and women to have different roles in life, and it’s a beautiful thing. I think sometimes feminism departs from and even rejects the beautiful parts of being a woman, like when women are militantly pro-abortion and things like that. Women are nurturers and men are protectors, and that’s how God made it, and it’s wonderful. But there’s nothing wrong with men helping out around the house and women helping with bringing home the bacon.

It’s just sometimes unrealistic to think that a dual-earner home is out of the question. A working mother isn’t a bad mother. My mum is the best mother I could ever hope for because she filled both the role of a protector and provider and a nurturer for me while I was growing up. Women in today’s world need to be strong and educated. They can still provide that support and love as a domestic figure as well. (Granted, while my mother was working 11-hour days it was difficult for her to do both, but an 8-hour workday and good childcare facilities aren’t necessarily detrimental to a kid.)

And you’re right, it’s ridiculous and selfish for a girl to expect her future husband to pay off her school loans if she chooses to be a stay-at-home mother. I don’t see why any woman would entertain such a silly idea – that sense of entitlement would probably bite her later.