The Value of Education

[gardenswithkids]

… I said the PRIMARY education, not the ONLY education. Of course the secular sciences are part of a parent’s education for children.

Then we agree that mothers have a very important role in their children’s education. Therefore, a college education is not wasted on a stay-at-home mother if her education enhances her ability to educate her children.

As far as “secular” sciences, real science is *not *secular–science is the study of God’s creation. As a college educated woman and Catholic mother, I combined what I learned in college chemistry to explain oxidation-reduction while we polished silver. The science lesson progressed to a theology lesson. Sin tarnishes our soul; God cleans us so that we can reflect Him. God writes deeper spiritual truths into His creation. As we study creation, we learn about the Creator.

 

[peregrinator_it]

Then we agree that mothers have a very important role in their children’s education. Therefore, a college education is not wasted on a stay-at-home mother if her education enhances her ability to educate her children.

As far as “secular” sciences, real science is *not *secular–science is the study of God’s creation. As a college educated woman and Catholic mother, I combined what I learned in college chemistry to explain oxidation-reduction while we polished silver. The science lesson progressed to a theology lesson. Sin tarnishes our soul; God cleans us so that we can reflect Him. God writes deeper spiritual truths into His creation. As we study creation, we learn about the Creator.

:bowdown2:

:clapping:

 

[Michael_Saint]

As far as “secular” sciences, real science is *not *secular–science is the study of God’s creation.

Well of course. “Secular science” is a term I learned from Vatican II and the many Encyclicals I have read. If it’s good enough for them, it’s good enough for me.

 

[Michael_Saint]

Then we agree that mothers have a very important role in their children’s education. Therefore, a college education is not wasted on a stay-at-home mother if her education enhances her ability to educate her children.

Is the extra education a woman gets with a degree worth $40,000, when the fact is she can STILL educate her children just fine without that degree? I am not so sure.

And the fact is - one can have all the education in the world and not be able to communicate it.

 

[Michael_Saint]

As for my friends, I’m not privy to that information. It’s none of my business.

The first spiritual work of mercy is to “admonish the sinner”. If you care about your friends, you will make it your “business”.

 

[Michael_Saint]

1. I imagine you’re contending that for a (potential) SAHM to bring debt from education into a marriage is selfish, because it may lead to the husband having to work to help pay off the debt. And this is “selfish” and “unjust” because a SAHM wouldn’t be able to contribute financially.

I wouldn’t say selfish - just imprudent and somewhat thoughtless.

 

[Michael_Saint]

Also, you say it’s useful “only toward the education of children” (emphasis mine.) My understanding is that the procreation of children is one of the primary purposes of marriage and that the proper education of children is the parents’ primary and most solemn duty. Even when the children are schooled outside of the home. That being the case, the qualifier “only” seems inaccurate…

I’m too busy to go back to my original quote.

Not a single Saint in the history of the Church had a mother with a bachelor’s degree.

Now, that’s NOT to say a degree doesn’t help a mother with the education of her children. But let’s put it in perspective. But does it help her THAT much? Is it worth $40,000? If it is truly worth $40,000, then I am all for it. But I am not so sure it is.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I would want a marriage where the spouses took the attitude that my friends did; a marriage where spouses cheerfully carry one another’s burdens; not one marked by an ungenerous attitude such as yours

It depends what the burden is, and how the burden came to be. A burden which is gratuitous and unnecessary is not something one should have to “bear with”, nor should one expect another to bear with it. Running up an unnecessary debt (and I am speaking in general [let’s say running up a credit card debt, in order not to get sidetracked on the same old issue that has been beaten to death] is a “burden”, and it is one that one should not place on another. (Whether or not the issue we have been speaking of is an “unnecessary debt” is something we will have to disagree about). Addiction to alcohol can be a “burden” to the spouse as well, but it is wrong to place that burden on your spouse, and one who is willing to “burden” her future husband with this “burden” of alcoholism should not find a man willing to marry her - if they had any sense at all.

 

[peregrinator_it]

… that’s NOT to say a degree doesn’t help a mother with the education of her children. But let’s put it in perspective. But does it help her THAT much?

Well, I can’t speak for everyone, but my degree sure has helped me. I’m not married, and so have no children, but I taught for 6 years after college and used what I learned (not just facts, but a deepened understanding of human nature and love for knowledge) in college literally from day 1.

And the fact is - one can have all the education in the world and not be able to communicate it.

See, education, particularly college education, should not just be acquisition of a new set of data. In the process of trying to truly understand a discipline, you should learn not only how to retain the necessary information you need, but what axioms you will accept and how the “parts” of your discipline relate to each other and to wider questions, and where there are ambiguities or flaws in the theories you study. If you have truly done this, you will be able to communicate with others about your discipline.

That some people can’t do this is evidence of decay in our educational system, not evidence that higher education itself is useless or not worth the effort.

 

[bookgirl32]

How can I do this when the Vatican has not done so?

This is my point.

Every single couple has to gear this towards their situation - but how many do it with complete openness? According to you, every couple does.

Please provide a quote of where I said that.

According to me, many choose “other reasons” and consider them “grave” because it suits their purposes.

And my other point is, is this any of your business? The Church has approved NFP and tried to provide guidance on reasons for using it. You can very well, and should, support the use of it over ABC, and support the Church’s reasoning in approving it. You shouldn’t put yourself into a situation in which you really don’t have inside knowledge of why a couple is or isn’t using NFP. Assuming a couple uses NFP to save money for education b/c you see a woman getting an education and a couple NOT having children at that time is not accurate. You don’t know, and you, not being part of the marriage, or God, should NOT know.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I’m too busy to go back to my original quote.

Not a single Saint in the history of the Church had a mother with a bachelor’s degree.

Now, that’s NOT to say a degree doesn’t help a mother with the education of her children. But let’s put it in perspective. But does it help her THAT much? Is it worth $40,000? If it is truly worth $40,000, then I am all for it. But I am not so sure it is.

Not EXACTLY true…
saintgianna.org/medischool.htm
saintgianna.org/main.htm

 

[Carolinagirl411]

I’m the kind of dork that would love to win the $100 million jackpot just so I could go to school and take whatever classes I want. I already have a Master’s but there is so much I’m interested in I feel sort of trapped in one degree. But unfortunately college tuition keeps rising…sigh

I guess that’s why I love to teach too…b/c teachers are still learning…

 

[bookgirl32]

Is the extra education a woman gets with a degree worth $40,000, when the fact is she can STILL educate her children just fine without that degree? I am not so sure.

And the fact is - one can have all the education in the world and not be able to communicate it.

Michael,
I think part of your problem is that you consider YOUR studies in theology a catalyst for you to analyze every single possible moral situation. But you’re doing so without looking at yourself in the process.

Which is worse: NOT taking a couple to task for spending their money inappropriately, not taking a couple to task for using NFP inappropriately, etc? Or doing so (or other things like this) so vehemently and often that all others can see is your judgementalism? God is capable of leading people without you making sure He’s being understood.

You’ve freely admitted in some of your posts that you’re not looking to marry right now. Is it possible that it COULD be God’s plan for you to marry soon, and you’re missing his proddings because your future spouse is turned off by your attitude? I’m not trying to tell you this IS the case, you could be discerning the vocation of the priesthood for all I know. But the same priniples apply there.

 

[bookgirl32]

I’m too busy to go back to my original quote.

Not a single Saint in the history of the Church had a mother with a bachelor’s degree.

Now, that’s NOT to say a degree doesn’t help a mother with the education of her children. But let’s put it in perspective. But does it help her THAT much? Is it worth $40,000? If it is truly worth $40,000, then I am all for it. But I am not so sure it is.

I guess that’s my point, do I need to be sure that YOU’RE sure it is before I do it, or God?

 

[peregrinator_it]

I just can’t understanding pursuing a vocation (ANY vocation, be it to the priesthood, or to marriage, or to religious life) while setting limits on how much you’re willing to give of yourself or your money or your time.

It’s like saying “Yes, God, I’ll become a priest, (or a religious) but I think it’s unreasonable to do anything in your service after 11pm; that’s just not necessary, it’s ‘extra’ and I shouldn’t have to do it.”

Is the extra education a woman gets with a degree worth $40,000, when the fact is she can STILL educate her children just fine without that degree? I am not so sure.

This attitude combined with the repetition of the dollar figure is what prompts me to use words like “ungenerous.” I know you don’t agree, but higher education is (for some people) NOT “extra,” but a proper use of their talents (in the Biblical sense.)

I concede that college tuition is unreasonably inflated, but no potential spouse you meet has the power to change that on her own, and so can hardly be faulted for paying what she has to.

Obviously, you have to be prudent when handling money/work hours in marriage, but if you do your utmost in that regard in good faith, then God will provide the rest. I’ve never seen Him let anyone down.

 

[whatevergirl]

I guess that’s my point, do I need to be sure that YOU’RE sure it is before I do it, or God?

You go girl:thumbsup: lol This post made me laugh.

Michael–many women persue educational avenues for a variety of reasons. Suppose a woman never marries? Suppose a woman marries, and her husband falls ill, or leaves her or dies and she needs to support her family? Every woman should seek an education, degree, whatever if she chooses.

 

[peregrinator_it]

Finally, I whole-heartedly agree with this (below.)

A burden which is gratuitous and unnecessary is not something one should have to “bear with”, nor should one expect another to bear with it. Running up an unnecessary debt (and I am speaking in general [let’s say running up a credit card debt] is a “burden”, and it is one that one should not place on another. Addiction to alcohol can be a “burden” to the spouse as well, but it is wrong to place that burden on your spouse, and one who is willing to “burden” her future husband with this “burden” of alcoholism should not find a man willing to marry her - if they had any sense at all.

And in fact I had already addressed it here (below; saves me having to repeat myself.) (From post #80; I can’t figure out how to work the threaded quotes thingy.)

peregrinator_it:

Certainly, one should be careful when choosing a spouse and think about what sort of difficulties one would and wouldn’t be willing to shoulder. And I certainly wouldn’t pick a spouse who was truly financially irresponsible, but going into debt to pay for education is hardly irresponsible behavior.

All this is inspiring me to go post on one of those “what do you look for in a spouse” threads. I realize I want someone who will be generous (first with God and then with other people.) I think “tries to follow the Great Commandment” is going to be my ultimate criteria for a spouse…

 

[peregrinator_it]

Not EXACTLY true…
saintgianna.org/medischool.htm
saintgianna.org/main.htm

Thanks Em , for doing the research. I wondered about her…

 

[peregrinator_it]

The first spiritual work of mercy is to “admonish the sinner”. If you care about your friends, you will make it your “business”.

My married friends don’t choose to share intimate details with me (for which I am very grateful.)

I’m not going to ask them for those details, so I can discover some sin and admonish them to stop.

I’m pretty sure that would be sinful.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

Originally Posted by Michael Saint
“The first spiritual work of mercy is to “admonish the sinner”. If you care about your friends, you will make it your “business”.”

yeah but there are better ways of going about it. Going to all of your friends and sticking your nose in their private business on purpose just to criticize and judge would leave you without any friends…Sometimes it is better to live a good Christian life by example and then let God use you to make a point. Not going around snooping lol You can make a point without saying anything