The vanishing male

[mrpathetic]

I think a lot of women who participate in this are under the impression that they have sexual power over men, and that it is something new and therefore progressive. It is, of course, an illusion.

I believe that the phrase that is used to describe this is “sexual empowerment”.

I saw a scientific study recently, that claimed a higher percentage of teenage girls have had sex than teenage boys. When I saw that, my eyes nearly bugged out of my head. How can that be true, in this age, or any other?

Young girls think that they have equality, if they have become “sexually empowered”. Instead, they are becoming moral degenerates, just like dirty old men.

This is sheer madness. **Our civilization is going right off the rails. **

 

[shannyk]

I believe that the phrase that is used to describe this is “sexual empowerment”.

I saw a scientific study recently, that claimed a higher percentage of teenage girls have had sex than teenage boys. When I saw that, my eyes nearly bugged out of my head. How can that be true, in this age, or any other?

Sadly, I believe this wholeheartedly.

Young girls think that they have equality, if they have become “sexually empowered”. Instead, they are becoming moral degenerates, just like dirty old men.

And they are using men in the same disgusting and inexcusable ways men have been to women. It’s cool now.

This is sheer madness. **Our civilization is going right off the rails. **

I agree.

 

[chevalier]

That “sexual empowerment” **** makes a woman use her sexual faculties as a bargaining point and therefore a commodity. Actually, a man could also pull off that tactic and I guess some do.

Ailina, I’m being under the impression that you see the the pill as a positive thing. That would be wrong. It is also wrong to see things as either the pill or barefoot pregnant women in the kitchen, as you put it. By contrast, NFP allows for a cooperative choice of days on which to have marital relations, stress on cooperative instead of unilateral and stress on choosing infertile days instead of barging in and inhibiting the body with a drug that has a ton of side-effects including personality change AND a risk of aborting a conceived child that cannot be eliminated.

If a woman were to use the pill to assert her freedom and strength, she would quickly become a downthrodden slave of her insecurities, addicted to strongarming and strategising (forcing the guy, forcing the body, having a figurative hidden knife in the boot etc), instead of forming a harmonious relationship - nothing to envy there.

I saw a scientific study recently, that claimed a higher percentage of teenage girls have had sex than teenage boys. When I saw that, my eyes nearly bugged out of my head. How can that be true, in this age, or any other?

Young girls think that they have equality, if they have become “sexually empowered”. Instead, they are becoming moral degenerates, just like dirty old men.

Yeah, that logic goes in circles. In order to avoid being objectified by men seeing her as a tool and wanting sex out of her preferably without obligations… a woman should plentifuly and liberally engage in… easy sex without obligations, i.e. what men supposedly want. If you give it they can’t take it away from you kind of logic.

This is sheer madness. **Our civilization is going right off the rails. **

Sure thing but there’s a good trend too. People are getting over cheap sex, grass and whatnot. Even fashion has improved compared to some of the previous years. John Paul II made a lot of difference. Mother Theresa did. Benedict XVI is.

 

[whatevergirl]

*No, she didn’t say it’s a positive or even inferred that, she said to say it’s ‘one thing’ is overly simple. However, as I see it, abortion and birth control, two areas where mankind plays God, cannot be good for a civilization. It is leading us down a slippery slope…cloning, euthanasia, embryo stem cell research, and on and on. I just wanted to chime in that Alaina was not advocating the pill, at least from what I read…she is merely stating that it’s not one thing that led us all here. *

 

[whatevergirl]

*I need to scroll back, someone in this thread, stated something very significant to this conversation…basically, stating that if it were not for the repression of women so long ago, when we couldn’t even vote…maybe the pendulum wouldn’t have swung so far the other way. I don’t know, can’t fully say. But, I too had ancestors who didn’t speak all that well of yesteryear. I remember aunts who were cheated on repeatedly (so the stories go told to me by my sister) hit, and disrespected…and the women basically had ‘no rights,’ divorce was unheard of…etc. Birth control wasn’t even around. So, to me, a revolution of sorts was on the horizon…you can’t keep hitting a dog, and expect it to keep coming around wagging its tail…eventually, it will bite. Unfortunately, the advent of feminism took that pendulum and thrust it in an entirely other direction…and we can see a lot of ills now…birth control, abortion, divorce, lack of responsiblity among men and women, higher std’s, etc…etc…Feminism bit us very hard, but women can’t only be to blame. *

 

[BrokenFortress]

Exactly whatevergirl, that was my point. That to blame women for this loss of good men in society is just plain wrong. It is equally male and female to blame. Pointing fingers at who is to blame is not going to change anything.
You can make a point to show that now perhaps women are taking advantage of men, but it is not solely their blame. If men had in the past treated women as Jesus treated his Church, we would not be having these issues of today.
Your analogy of the beaten dog is a good one. A revolution was bound to happen with how women were treated. Unfortunately it has gone out of control. And that going out of control is still both men and women’s fault. Sure, women go for abortions, take birth control, etc. but men also have their faults. And these faults of both men and women is what is leading to the degradation of family in a traditional view (ie men as head of household, leading the family etc)

To put the blame solely on women is just plain wrong. It’s a cycle, and neither sex is to blame more than the other. Personally I see it kind of the same as Adam and Eve. Sure, Eve was the one who initially took the fruit, but Adam did not stop her, and he too ate of the fruit. God did not banish women only from the Garden of Eden, but banished both because they both had went wrong. One was not at fault more than the other. That’s the way I see it anyways.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Boys now grow up, disrupt, get frustrated and don’t attend college where women now outnumber men almost 2 to 1. Those educated women then enter the work force and have dibs on all the good jobs, have better success in government as well as business. Men are entering trades at a rate non seen in 25 years. Those are the only jobs they are qualified to do!

I would think that attending a college where women outnumber men 2 to 1 would make a healthy young man WANT to go there. Get a quality education and a decent chance of getting a date.

 

[chevalier]

I would think that attending a college where women outnumber men 2 to 1 would make a healthy young man WANT to go there. Get a quality education and a decent chance of getting a date.

Lol, true. Especially if one’s a nerd, lack of competition is never a bad thing.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Okay, I’ve read through all of this and wanted to put in my :twocents:

What is a man? Not a male, a man?

Too many people identify manliness with outside things that are less and less part of our culture.

While my wife stays home, most homes have both people working. The idea of the man as the sole breadwinner is not as much a reality due to today’s economy.

The last time I checked there were no wild wolves or bear or saber-tooth tigers wandering loose in America or Europe or most anywhere. The idea of the man as the big game hunter and defender of the family is gone unless you are a central African tribesman or an Aborigine.

While girls are shown that the ideal is to weigh as close to 80 lbs as possible, boys are still taught that raw physical strength is the key to manhood. While it is very reassuring to ones manliness to be able to open that tough pickle jar, the real measure of a man’s strength it today’s world is more all around. Women are called the weaker sex for a reason and it is not pejorative. There are many times that the women in a man’s life are going to break down and a true man is strong in these times. Often that means nothing more than listening and holding them. Physical AND Mental maturity are required.

Too many men in this world think that going to Church is unmanly. A poll last year showed that almost 80% of those surveyed thought that they should be allowed to skip church on Fathers Day weekend for that reason. Men today need to know that spiritual strength is vital in today’s world. As I told my son, Jesus took a beating I could never take so how can I be unmanned by going to worship Him?

Being a man in today’s world is hard. You have to be hard and soft at the same time. You have to be strong in the right things. To take a title from a series of books, Everything I need to know about being a man I learned in Kindergarten may not be true but there is much truth there.

Be kind
Be sharing
NEVER hit girls.

If fathers don’t show up, then it doesn’t matter what percentage of their teachers are female or whether they go to college or not. Being a true man today is hard, but the rewards are Eternal.

 

[whatevergirl]

Okay, I’ve read through all of this and wanted to put in my :twocents:

What is a man? Not a male, a man?

Too many people identify manliness with outside things that are less and less part of our culture.

While my wife stays home, most homes have both people working. The idea of the man as the sole breadwinner is not as much a reality due to today’s economy.

The last time I checked there were no wild wolves or bear or saber-tooth tigers wandering loose in America or Europe or most anywhere. The idea of the man as the big game hunter and defender of the family is gone unless you are a central African tribesman or an Aborigine.

While girls are shown that the ideal is to weigh as close to 80 lbs as possible, boys are still taught that raw physical strength is the key to manhood. While it is very reassuring to ones manliness to be able to open that tough pickle jar, the real measure of a man’s strength it today’s world is more all around. Women are called the weaker sex for a reason and it is not pejorative. There are many times that the women in a man’s life are going to break down and a true man is strong in these times. Often that means nothing more than listening and holding them. Physical AND Mental maturity are required.

Too many men in this world think that going to Church is unmanly. A poll last year showed that almost 80% of those surveyed thought that they should be allowed to skip church on Fathers Day weekend for that reason. Men today need to know that spiritual strength is vital in today’s world. As I told my son, Jesus took a beating I could never take so how can I be unmanned by going to worship Him?

Being a man in today’s world is hard. You have to be hard and soft at the same time. You have to be strong in the right things. To take a title from a series of books, Everything I need to know about being a man I learned in Kindergarten may not be true but there is much truth there.

Be kind
Be sharing
NEVER hit girls.

If fathers don’t show up, then it doesn’t matter what percentage of their teachers are female or whether they go to college or not. Being a true man today is hard, but the rewards are Eternal.

Nicely stated.

 

[Bluegoat]

*I need to scroll back, someone in this thread, stated something very significant to this conversation…basically, stating that if it were not for the repression of women so long ago, when we couldn’t even vote…maybe the pendulum wouldn’t have swung so far the other way. I don’t know, can’t fully say. But, I too had ancestors who didn’t speak all that well of yesteryear. I remember aunts who were cheated on repeatedly (so the stories go told to me by my sister) hit, and disrespected…and the women basically had ‘no rights,’ divorce was unheard of…etc. Birth control wasn’t even around. So, to me, a revolution of sorts was on the horizon…you can’t keep hitting a dog, and expect it to keep coming around wagging its tail…eventually, it will bite. Unfortunately, the advent of feminism took that pendulum and thrust it in an entirely other direction…and we can see a lot of ills now…birth control, abortion, divorce, lack of responsiblity among men and women, higher std’s, etc…etc…Feminism bit us very hard, but women can’t only be to blame. *

Yes, this is a good point. It is one thing I often think about with regard to discussions of NFP. We take it for granted that a man and woman who are married will be in it together, or at the least want what is best for each other, and have love and respect.

In the past, though, and in some other places still, men have demanded their “marital rights” of their wives, even if it resulted in serious physical or mental hardship for the wives in question. Or husbands that were unfaithful thought nothing of bringing home the results to their wives. Neither of these things were uncommon scenarios.

Those are the cases where I think the churches policy on NFP and ABC would really seem to be a kick in the teeth to the wife. Not to say it is a wrong policy, but not really addressing the problem. Secretly, or openly, using ABC might well seem the only option to the wife.

 

[chevalier]

Those are the cases where I think the churches policy on NFP and ABC would really seem to be a kick in the teeth to the wife. Not to say it is a wrong policy, but not really addressing the problem. Secretly, or openly, using ABC might well seem the only option to the wife.

What about the abortifacient effect?

 

[r4j]

So here is my opinion - It’s not going to be popular but read through it - Women have too much power.

Schools are run nearly 90 percent by women. As such, they teach to little girls. They stick boys in chairs for eight hours a day and require them to be still. They pop pills in their mouth if they squirm, wiggle or disrupt. Then they kick them out when they are older. 20 Years ago schools had physical education/recess an average of 1.5 hours per day which boys need! Today, my son get 30 minutes on some days and none on others with a weekly average of around 15 minutes per day. You say it didn’t happen 20 years ago and women ran the schools then! True enough but there has been a concerted effort to teach to little girls in the past 20 years to the detriment of little boys. I am not saying we need to teach to girls less don’t get me wrong. However, we need to teach to boys MORE!!

Boys now grow up, disrupt, get frustrated and don’t attend college where women now outnumber men almost 2 to 1. Those educated women then enter the work force and have dibs on all the good jobs, have better success in government as well as business. Men are entering trades at a rate non seen in 25 years. Those are the only jobs they are qualified to do!

My father, a criminal defense attorney, has told me for years that he believes terrible life circumstances usually start with a single bad decision. Usually that decision is drugs or alcohol but there are plenty of other bad decisions that could make the point.

So to the above problem I believe it started with a single bad decision - ARTIFICIAL BIRTH CONTROL!

That’s my premise…Any takers?

Sorry folks - I’m late to the party and only have read the opening post.
I’m a 48 year old male in New England. I have a 16 yr old daughter, 12 yr old son and 15 month old daughter. I say a few things.

1. I agree with your dad who is echoing St. Thomas Acquinas - ‘an error in the beginning is an error indeed.’ If you make an error in the beginning, the error compounds itself. This goes for marriage, philosophy, faith, etc.
2. My opinion, educators don’t teach to little girls. So they cut back gym/recess time, might make the class room time tougher - they’ll have to make class room time more engaging, that’s a challenge for the educators. My son is not the best sit down and study kid. It’s been real tough getting him to take his time, focus, etc. I was at a seminar some years ago and this former behavioral psychologist now turned business consultant said that the kids of my son’s generation (he called them the Nintendo generation) are growing up getting so much immedate positive and negative feedback from these video games that it’s going to be a real challenge for business managers to keep these folks engaged unless we change the way we manage.
3. Women aren’t taking over the world, men aren’t taking over the world. Men and women are complimentary, not opposed.
4. ABC doesn’t seem to have anything to do with your argument - I heard a priest say once - life begins at conception, abortion begins at contraception.
5. I believe us men, and I’m at the top of the list, have loss something about what it means to be a man. And I’m talking about the last 50 years. I only discovered over the last 2 years, since my reconversion, how selfish I was, how I had my priorities screwed up. I didn’t know what love is and I didn’t know what marriage was. Some things are better, some things we do a better a job at, but we’ve lost something in the core. You look at commercials, TV shows, movies, look at the men around you - they’re different than the men of decades past. I often think what men of prior generations would think of us if they saw what was going on today. Sorry I’m not giving a lot of specifics, but that would make this post go on even longer.
6. I think women take the educator jobs because their nature calls them to such professions, where men take trades because their nature calls them to such jobs. It’s only when we live in conformity to what our being calls us to be that we find true happiness - this was another thing I heard from a priest.
   As I said my son is no sit down kid - if I know he’s like that - then I should take him for a mile walk in the morning before school, or have him do 100 pushups, whatever I think may help me burn some of that energy.

 

[Cat]

There’s an episode of American Dad where Stan (a burly CIA agent) decides that it’s time to train his rather puny son and his soft nerdy buddies to be real MEN.

So he buys cattle, and the boys spend the weekend camping outside, rounding up the cattle (in the front yard), slaughtering one of them to roast over an open fire, and taking the herd of cattle to market (on horseback through the streets of the city!).

Of course the boys are miserable missing all the modern conveniences, television, video games, etc.

The plot gets complicated when it turns out that the steer that was slaughtered and BBQed had mad cow disease, and since Stan was the only one who actually ate it, he starts acting quite bizarre!

The boys realize that something is wrong, and that they have to use all their “manly” virtues (strength, courage, unselfishness, willingness to sacrifice their own lives, ingenuity, etc.) to rescue Stan from certain death. They rise to the occasion, and in a daring rescue, save Stan!

And Stan realizes that just because boys aren’t riding the open range and killing animals and never bathing, they can still grow up to be manly men, because the essence of a manly man is one who is willing to give up his life for another human being.

It’s a good episode, and I think many people involved with this thread would enjoy it.

 

[Bluegoat]

What about the abortifacient effect?

Well, in the past when the attitude I was refering to was more common around here, the Pill was not available at all or readily, and IUDs, (I think) were not common either. Diaphrams were likely the most common choice for a woman taking care of birth control with no support from her husband. In other cases husbands were willing to use ABC but not abstain.

But honestly, I’m not sure what you are getting at - I can’t really see how it relates to what I said at all? I was agreeing with some pp that suggested that inequalities against women, and real lack of partnership in male/female relationships, was a major contributor to the desire of the women’s and feminist movements to secure a place for women that was truly independent of men.

It isn’t terribly common anymore, but it was at one time quite common for women to be told by the Church that they must abstain in order to avoid children they couldn’t handle, while their husbands refused to have anything to do with either periodic or long-term abstinence.

In such a situation, I don’t think anyone should be surprised that women would resort to ABC, simply leave the Church behind, or support the feminist movement.

 

[deepsouthpapist]

Okay so here is an example of the difference that I am referring to with regards to raising boys.

Boy acts out in some fashion at school, say uses bad language towards another classmate. He isn’t real old but old enough to know better. To discipline the child, here are your choices:

A. Explain why the behavior is bad. Tell the son your family doesn’t use that kind of language and it could hurt other people’s feelings.Tell the son not to do it again, have him read an applicable Bible verse, make him apologize to the friend.

B. Spank the child, drive him the friend’s house and make him apologize. Never speak another word about it. Explain nothing.

One way is clearly more feminine and the other way is clearly more masculine. Argue that point if you must but you’ll miss the bigger point I am making. The first example is how the whole of society operates now. It has been feminized. We must explain, we must not hurt other people’s feelings, everyone can be right, we just do it differently. Everything is a “teachable” moment and we must encourage. We over do it. This idea translates into other areas of society as well, even in federal foreign relations with countries like Iran.

A little more than a generation ago, choice A would have been an inexcusable way to teach a child. Right and wrong was black and white and no explanation was necessary. Consequences for wrong behavior was immediate. Even though I can feel right now most of the women and some of the men are gasping at the thought of treating a child as in choice B, people of that generation weren’t harmed by the actions and most grew to adulthood with a profound sense of right and wrong. No teachable moments, no explanation and no second thought. I am not suggesting that we should go back to the days of yesteryear and I know that generation wasn’t perfect either.

But with the new paradigm where society is feminized and in my view, weakened, we allow other views contrary to our own far too often. We explain why the neighbors “choice” to be homosexual is right for them but not for us. When we should simply state, the choice they are making is wrong and it should never under any circumstances be the choice anyone makes, in our family or outside of it. Period. That is just ONE example of many, so don’t send me email and tell me I don’t like homosexuals. I don’t dislike anyone but there is a RIGHT and a WRONG in most situations.

Bottom line, men seem to “get” teaching right from wrong and intuitively understand there is little need for explanation, particularly for a child. The child will get it through his father’s example.

 

[Bluegoat]

Okay so here is an example of the difference that I am referring to with regards to raising boys.

Boy acts out in some fashion at school, say uses bad language towards another classmate. He isn’t real old but old enough to know better. To discipline the child, here are your choices:

A. Explain why the behavior is bad. Tell the son your family doesn’t use that kind of language and it could hurt other people’s feelings.Tell the son not to do it again, have him read an applicable Bible verse, make him apologize to the friend.

B. Spank the child, drive him the friend’s house and make him apologize. Never speak another word about it. Explain nothing.

One way is clearly more feminine and the other way is clearly more masculine. Argue that point if you must but you’ll miss the bigger point I am making. The first example is how the whole of society operates now. It has been feminized. We must explain, we must not hurt other people’s feelings, everyone can be right, we just do it differently. Everything is a “teachable” moment and we must encourage. We over do it. This idea translates into other areas of society as well, even in federal foreign relations with countries like Iran.

A little more than a generation ago, choice A would have been an inexcusable way to teach a child. Right and wrong was black and white and no explanation was necessary. Consequences for wrong behavior was immediate. Even though I can feel right now most of the women and some of the men are gasping at the thought of treating a child as in choice B, people of that generation weren’t harmed by the actions and most grew to adulthood with a profound sense of right and wrong. No teachable moments, no explanation and no second thought. I am not suggesting that we should go back to the days of yesteryear and I know that generation wasn’t perfect either.

But with the new paradigm where society is feminized and in my view, weakened, we allow other views contrary to our own far too often. We explain why the neighbors “choice” to be homosexual is right for them but not for us. When we should simply state, the choice they are making is wrong and it should never under any circumstances be the choice anyone makes, in our family or outside of it. Period. That is just ONE example of many, so don’t send me email and tell me I don’t like homosexuals. I don’t dislike anyone but there is a RIGHT and a WRONG in most situations.

Bottom line, men seem to “get” teaching right from wrong and intuitively understand there is little need for explanation, particularly for a child. The child will get it through his father’s example.

Lots of families would have chosen A, even a generation ago. And I’m not sure why it could ever be a good idea to discipline a child without making it clear why the behavior was bad, and what to do instead.

 

[chevalier]

It isn’t terribly common anymore, but it was at one time quite common for women to be told by the Church that they must abstain in order to avoid children they couldn’t handle, while their husbands refused to have anything to do with either periodic or long-term abstinence.

In such a situation, I don’t think anyone should be surprised that women would resort to ABC, simply leave the Church behind, or support the feminist movement.

I wasn’t sure what exactly you were meaning, either. My point was it took a bit more to accept the risk of abortion, but I don’t want to play public prosecutor on those women either. Contraception is evil, the pill is more evil than “just” contraception because it involves the risk of abortion that can’t be eliminated.

Now, to go on different waters…

Regarding trades, it ought to be stressed that manual labour shouldn’t be identified with a lack of education. It’s just how the education system has worked for some time and a problem of social perception. Somehow being a master (after the mediaeval manner of a trade or guild master) of a trade requiring a lot of cleverness, stability of hand, surety of the eye and even book education at times, does not seem as valuable as being a Master of anything that any school awarded for sitting through a course and paying tuition (frankly, there are Master’s courses that anyone who finished highschool would be able to finish).

Now let’s take a look at one of the hip trades of the recent age - and a manly one at that, the IT. Work with hands is plentiful in the hardware area. It’s a screwdriver work where you put nuts and bolts and washers together and you make fans blow in the right direction and you mount drives in bays or cards in slots or heatsinks on stuff, or you glue things up. Work with hands if I’ve seen any - and I tell you I love it.

Now when I work as a translator, I love the typing aspect of the work and feeling like the final outcome is a, “work of my hands,” and I had a similar feeling about court letters when working as a lawyer or litigating my bar admission. I’m even rather proud of my typing rate…

On the hunting side of things, well… I may have an MA, working on Ph.D., but I love walking around in khakis and I “forget” to shave quite often. I couldn’t catch any game and I don’t think I’d be such an excellent melee fighter if it came to it, but I have a sword round here, not like it’s good for many things other than the wall, but it’s there. On some days, I just have to wear the rough leather cowboy waistcoat and the bolo tie (and sometimes a leather cowboy hat…) even though I’ve lived in Europe all my life and rarely seen a farm past my 15th year anyway. And it’s not like I won’t come to an official event (or to court) in a creamy linen suit like in those 19th century soap operas. There are just some things that are simply in the blood of a man.

 

[Cat]

Okay so here is an example of the difference that I am referring to with regards to raising boys.

Boy acts out in some fashion at school, say uses bad language towards another classmate. He isn’t real old but old enough to know better. To discipline the child, here are your choices:

A. Explain why the behavior is bad. Tell the son your family doesn’t use that kind of language and it could hurt other people’s feelings.Tell the son not to do it again, have him read an applicable Bible verse, make him apologize to the friend.

B. Spank the child, drive him the friend’s house and make him apologize. Never speak another word about it. Explain nothing.

One way is clearly more feminine and the other way is clearly more masculine. Argue that point if you must but you’ll miss the bigger point I am making. The first example is how the whole of society operates now. It has been feminized. We must explain, we must not hurt other people’s feelings, everyone can be right, we just do it differently. Everything is a “teachable” moment and we must encourage. We over do it. This idea translates into other areas of society as well, even in federal foreign relations with countries like Iran.

A little more than a generation ago, choice A would have been an inexcusable way to teach a child. Right and wrong was black and white and no explanation was necessary. Consequences for wrong behavior was immediate. Even though I can feel right now most of the women and some of the men are gasping at the thought of treating a child as in choice B, people of that generation weren’t harmed by the actions and most grew to adulthood with a profound sense of right and wrong. No teachable moments, no explanation and no second thought. I am not suggesting that we should go back to the days of yesteryear and I know that generation wasn’t perfect either.

But with the new paradigm where society is feminized and in my view, weakened, we allow other views contrary to our own far too often. We explain why the neighbors “choice” to be homosexual is right for them but not for us. When we should simply state, the choice they are making is wrong and it should never under any circumstances be the choice anyone makes, in our family or outside of it. Period. That is just ONE example of many, so don’t send me email and tell me I don’t like homosexuals. I don’t dislike anyone but there is a RIGHT and a WRONG in most situations.

Bottom line, men seem to “get” teaching right from wrong and intuitively understand there is little need for explanation, particularly for a child. The child will get it through his father’s example.

In other words, logic and reason is for women and the manly way to deal with issues is force and violence?

You’re not being logical at all.

According to Dr. James Dobson, a clinical psychologist with over 30 years of teaching experience with children and teenagers, founder of Focus on the Family, author of numerous books on child rearing including the monumental Dare to Discipline, a ground-breaking pro-corporal punishment book which in the 1970s, refuted the liberal Dr. Spock and his “spank-less” discipline techniques–according to this great Christian, spanking is not recommended for children beyond the ages of 4-6.

With older children, spanking will do more harm than good, create a rebellious spirit, and most importantly, is NOT effective at quelling the wrong behavior and producing desired good behavior.

Taking away privileges is a more effective discipline approach in school-aged children.

I personally believe that filthy language is a form of violence, and using a violent discipline technique (e.g., spanking) will encourage rather than discourage the violent behavior/words. I think that the technique of reason and removing privileges would be much more effective.

Many workplaces, including mine (hospital lab) have at one time or another established “swear jars,” and everytime someone swears, they have to put a quarter in the jar. I think something like this could be very effective with a child/teenager.

Spanking an older child is the “easy way” for a parent. It makes the parent feel good, like they’ve really done something (even if experts like Dr. Dobson say that they haven’t accomplished anything). Reason, logic, discussion, taking away privileges, establishing a time line and a list of tasks required to have those privileges restored–these all take TIME and EFFORT. But if you’d rather take the EASY way…is that what real men do?

 

[chevalier]

Spanking breeds the, “why should I even submit to that?” question in an older child that’s capable of putting up some defence. Besides, in case it’s meted out in error, it probably does more harm than an incorrect timeout, candy deprivation, curfew, offline period or something of the kind. The worst that can be done is parents beating children until they own up to something they deny having done. Imagine how it feels when it turns out the kid really didn’t do it. The best kind of punishment is probably somethinh restitutional (with a little extra).