The Vatican and married priests

[Pax_Domini]

byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=215916&page=1#Post215916

*Brazilian cardinal urges Roman Catholic Church to allow priests to marry

By Tales Azzoni
ASSOCIATED PRESS

1:52 p.m. December 3, 2006

SAO PAULO, Brazil � An influential Brazilian cardinal says the Roman Catholic Church should reconsider its ban on allowing priests to marry.

Cardinal Claudio Hummes, who was recently named to head the Vatican’s office in charge of priests around the world, made the comment about two weeks after the Holy See reaffirmed the requirement of celibacy for priests.

�Celibacy is a discipline, not a dogma of the church,� Hummes was quoted as saying by the Folha de S. Paulo newspaper. �Certainly, the majority of the apostles were married. In this modern age, the church must observe these things, it has to advance with history.�

A Vatican spokesman could not be reached for comment Sunday. But the Vatican has strongly resisted calls for relaxing its celibacy rule.

Former Archbishop Emmanuel Milingo of Zambia is among those campaigning to change the policy.

Milingo was excommunicated in September when he ordained four married American men as bishops in defiance of the Vatican. He already had angered the Vatican in 2001 when he wed a South Korean woman in a group ceremony of the Unification Church of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Last year, one of France’s most respected Catholic figures, Abbe Pierre, wrote that he favored allowing priests to marry. In 2003, more than 160 priests in the Milwaukee Archdiocese in Wisconsin signed a letter supporting married clergy.

Early Christianity had no formal ban on marriage for clergy. The Bible mentions St. Peter’s mother-in-law and many scholars suggest other apostles had wives � as well as at least some popes, such as the 9th century Hadrian II.

In the early Middle Ages, however, movements for celibacy gained momentum and it became a requirement by the 12th century.

Most groups estimate the Roman Catholic Church has lost 100,000 to 150,000 clergy around the world who left the active priesthood to marry. The church considers them outcasts.

Hummes, who heads the diocese of Sao Paulo, was expected to leave for the Vatican late Sunday to attend a ceremony naming him as the new prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy � the office in charge of priests.

The 72-year-old cardinal was seen as a potential Third World candidate for the papacy in the conclave that elected Pope Benedict XVI last year.*

So you see that even cardinals are asking for it. I see no reason why you would mark me as a fool for asking for the same. This is a forum open for discussion, and we are not here to bash each other and point the finger and say you are wrong or you are fool. and just like nobody was obliged to respond to me and give me the vatican’s email, sources or whatever, I am not obliged to give all the sources.

Here is a website by a former Catholic priest who served the church for half of his life and was forced to leave to get married. He talks about the priests from other denominations who felt that the presence of a wife was more helpful in their service.
leavingthepriesthood.com/

This is an excerpt:
My “Seamless” Transition

Several months ago, I spoke with a doctoral student who was writing his dissertation about priests who have transitioned out of ordained ministry in the Catholic Church to ordained ministry in other Christian denominations. If I remember correctly, he has interviewed about 200 priests who have made this transition. The purpose of his dissertation is to find out whether or not marriage has been a positive or negative influence in their new ministries. From my discussions with him, he has received an earful from these priests about the positive influence marriage has been to their ministry. He also said that my transition was the most “seamless” he has heard.

 

[T700]

Sorry that no one gave you the emails at the Vatican you wanted. I went to www.google.com and entered the words “vatican” and “email” what do you know, I got this fine page with a list of Vatican emails. Just in case that is not satisfactory, here’s more contact info for the Vatican:

His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI PP.
00120 Via del Pellegrino
Citta del Vaticano

OR

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
Apostolic Palace
VATICAN CITY

OR

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
Vatican City State, 00120
Italy

E-mail: benedictxvi@vatican.va ]

Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine Faith

Prefect Archbishop William Joseph Levada
Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine Faith
Piazza del S. Uffizio 11
00193 Rome, VATICAN CITY

E-mail: cdf@cfaith.va

Sacred Congregation for Bishops

Bernardin Cardinal Gantin
Sacred Congregation for Bishops
Piazza Pio XII 10
00193 Rome, VATICAN CITY

Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship

Antonio Maria Cardinal Javierre Ortas
Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship
Piazza Pio XII 10
00193 Rome, VATICAN CITY

Now that you have that, would you like to quote some authoritative sources? It really doesn’t matter what a priest or a bishop wants or considers or thinks is right–what matters is what the Church, through the Vicar of Christ teaches.

Again, there is no shame in admitting you are wrong. Don’t continue to struggle against the teaching of the Church.

Of course if you are Protestant, you are free to believe whatever you like.

Paul

 

[T700]

Pax Domini,

Upon reflection and rereading my posts, I realized my tone with you was unkind. I apologize for the sharpness and sarcasm in my writing.

I still disagree 100% with you, but I should have done so in a more civil manner.

Paul

 

[Pax_Domini]

To the contrary. You are very kind because you just gave me the email of the Vatican. I will write to them and ask about this matter and will let you know their answer, if they ever answered.

 

[T700]

To the contrary. You are very kind because you just gave me the email of the Vatican. I will write to them and ask about this matter and will let you know their answer, if they ever answered.

Please do post their response, if they give one. And thanks for your gracious response.

Paul

 

[tassitus]

Here is a website by a former Catholic priest who served the church for half of his life and was forced to leave to get married. . .

I dislike your choice of words here - no one was “forced” to leave the priesthood - it was a free choice of the particular priest.

I do not know your religious affiliation or background. But my one piece of unsolicited advice for you is not to take anything you hear or read from anyone now labeled a “former Catholic priest” or “ex-Catholic priest” as the unquestioned truth. For some of the most obvious and hurtful mis-information comes from the likes of these.

(and on a completely off-topic but very happy note, the Portland Trailblazers - playing without Brandon Roy and starting three rookies - just beat the Boston Celtics by five. It was a thing of beauty!)

 

[fedoc]

I suggest that people should say what they quit well not to incur the roth of God. As an aspirant into the priesthood, what brought me in is the fact that one have to make sacrifices. It is within everybody’s decision to go or not. It is never an imposition on the priests. In fact, the priests should see it as a gift fromm the church to them according to Archbishop Fulton Sheen.

 

[claymcdermott]

Pax Domini,
I think the stance that the mandatory celibacy of priests in the Roman rite is somehow forcing them not to marry must be abondoned. I have met two priests who left the clergy in order to marry. One, is a sarcastic and odious socialist-sympathizer, so we won’t talk about him; the other, is a charitable man and he has adopted several children, either disabled or from an impoverished nation. When he left the clergy he did not leave the Church. Your posts paint a picture that everyone who leaves the active priesthood must leave the Church. He simply found out that the priesthood is not for him, and married. By the way, you mentioned that people in poor countries should be allowed to become married priests, because there is such a desperate need there for priests. I am embarrassed as an American to tell you that’s not the case. India, for instance, has a very high percentage of clergy. In fact it seems the richer a country gets, the more of a vocations crisis there is.

 

[Pax_Domini]

No Clacy I did not mean this. What I am suggesting is that celibacy should be optional. If a priest wants to be celibate forever, that’s great. If at some point of his life, he felt he cannot live without marriage, I feel that it is little harsh and a waste for the church to expel him. The Vatican does not allow a priest who gets married to have anything to do with its ministry, period. My personal opinon is that the church ought to make him continue, even at a smaller capacity.

Take Emmanuel Milingo an example. He was an Archbishop who at the age of 71, fell in love and got married to a Korean woman. The Vatican told him that if he was to continue at his position, he must renounce his marriage. He tried for 5 years but he couldn’t. Once the Vatican knew he returned to his wife, it completely excommunicated him and he is not allowed to even give a lecture using the Vatican’s name. Yet on the other hand, the Vatican happily accepts Married Protestant priests in thier ministry which means the idea of having married priests is not abnormal or a desecration to the holiness of the church. Sometimes a married priest can better understand the problems of married people. I also heard that in America [correct me if I am wrong], some people prefer to take their children to a married priest rather than a celibate because of the notorious image given by the pedophile priests; they also think that a married priest is somehow sexually satisfied.

As for countries in crisis, I am Iraqi and I can assure you that we have a big big problem… Our Roman Catholic vocations are nearly empty in Europe. In Iraq, life is so difficult. The Catholic churches know that these priests, unlike in other countries, are sacrificing not only their lives but the security of their families [every now and then 3 to 4 priests are threatened to either leave Iraq or get shot with their families]. Some fled, some stayed and were killed [so far 1 bishop and over 3 priests were killed], and some are still struggling. It is a tragic life. So when a priest like this falls in love and wants to marry, he thinks like this: I have sacrificed my life for my parish…I have put up with all the pressure of living there and I also know that vocations are nearly empty, this might let the church justify my need to marry… However, the church excommunicates him and what’s worse, he finds the Iraqi Catholics bash him and consider him a traitor. I say that this priest should at least be allowed to teach the bible, theology, anthropology, or anything to help his people, but the church bars him from doing anything just because he married. Hundreds of christians and muslims are killed everyday in Iraq. So it is a big waste to have the Church do that at a time when Iraqi Catholics really need any spiritual help in the face of daily deaths.

This is just an example of one country. In America, I would say that the reason why your vocations are empty because you guys have something called liberal thoughts, freedom of expression, equality and are more open. When an American priest sees that it is illogic and unreasonable not to be allowed to marry, and sees that the country’s rules are at his side, and that the open-minded American people won’t look at him with shame so much like third world countries do, he feels it is easier to leave.

By the way I did email His grace Pope Benedict and have addressed these problems to him. To date, I received no answer.

 

[claymcdermott]

Pax Domini,
I don’t think you know the whole story behind Milingo. This woman that he “fell in love with”, was assigned him by the leader of a cult, formerly known as the Unification Church. Believe me it is a cult; I reccommend you read up on what Moon actually thinks about Jesus, whom He believes to be following him, and not the other way around. By the way, Moon is a monster and a child abuser who preys upon poor people, picking 15 year old brides and stuff. But, Milingo wasn’t excommunicated for that. What he was excommunicated for was ordaining 4 bishops who claimed affiliation with the Synod of Old catholic Churches, which reject the doctrine of papal infallibility.
I have never met a priest nor heard of a priest, who was excommunicated for leaving the priesthood, unless he left it becuase he did not like Catholicism.
As for the supposed sexual satiation of the non-celibate, the Church in America is not nearly as persecuted as in your motherland, but she has her enemies. In America at the same time of the sex abuse scandal, it was discovered that married Protestant ministers, and several married Rabbis were found to be involved in similar acts. But, no media circus, because the media here is not Church friendly. The Catholics here are influenced by the media, and believe that all celibate priests are out to hurt their children.
By the way, this whole case of, “what if you fall in love and have to leave?”, is a very good case for polygamy.

 

[claymcdermott]

Oh, sorry but I forgot to mention, the Pope gets literally thousands of emails and letters a day, and he is preoccupied with the job of being pope. He will probably not answer your email personally, but beliieve me, read the numerous works of this man throughout his priesthood, and you will get an answer to your questions and concerns.
By the way, no one is saying there is something doctrinally wrong with married priests, and i am not sure why you get that impression. All the proponents of mandated celibacy are saying, is that the Church has the authority to choose its priests from among the unmarried exclusively.