The Vatican in Muslim Europe

[nonsumd]

There has one been one true peaceful man to walk on this earth, his name is Jesus, the son of God

I agree… though perhaps the Buddha was also a man of peace.

Unfortunately, how many wars have been waged in the name of that “one true peaceful man to walk on earth,” Jesus?

To claim a monopoly on being “men of peace” is very often the sure sign of a war-monger.

That applies to Muslims, Christians, or people of just about any religion. If I and I alone am “the man of peace” in the world, by definition whatever war I wage cannot but be be totally justified!

 

[paarsurrey]

To claim a monopoly on being “men of peace” is very often the sure sign of a war-monger.

Hi

It is a quotable quote, I must say. You write so correctly.

Thanks

 

[Montalban]

According to a statement made by a Muslim poster sometime ago, Muslims will take over Italy and the Vatican will have to move. According to him, it’s just a pimple on the map!

Vickie

I think they’ll find it more like an ulcer to Islam

 

[Montalban]

Unfortunately, how many wars have been waged in the name of that “one true peaceful man to walk on earth,” Jesus?

To claim a monopoly on being “men of peace” is very often the sure sign of a war-monger.

How many people make this same dud argument - it’s got nothing to do with Jesus.

It doesn’t make Jesus any less peaceful, and thus it doesn’t hurt the claim regarding him and peace.

That applies to Muslims, Christians, or people of just about any religion. If I and I alone am “the man of peace” in the world, by definition whatever war I wage cannot but be be totally justified!

Except Moslems don’t follow someone anything like Jesus.

 

[dolphinlove]

I agree… though perhaps the Buddha was also a man of peace.

Unfortunately, how many wars have been waged in the name of that “one true peaceful man to walk on earth,” Jesus?

To claim a monopoly on being “men of peace” is very often the sure sign of a war-monger.

That applies to Muslims, Christians, or people of just about any religion. If I and I alone am “the man of peace” in the world, by definition whatever war I wage cannot but be be totally justified!

Of course there was wars in the name of Jesus, Mohammed etc.
But my statement said there was only one true man that walked the earth, his name was Jesus.
I dont recall Jesus starting any wars…
I dont recall Jesus speaking of starting wars in his name…
That is why i said, he and he alone is the ONLY real Peaceful man to walk on this earth, as he was the son of God.
Of course there are others that are peaceful in living, but im sure they have sinned in their lives, Jesus did not sin, and that is the big difference.

 

[paarsurrey]

Of course there was wars in the name of Jesus, Mohammed etc.
But my statement said there was only one true man that walked the earth, his name was Jesus.
I dont recall Jesus starting any wars…
I dont recall Jesus speaking of starting wars in his name…
That is why i said, he and he alone is the ONLY real Peaceful man to walk on this earth, as he was the son of God.
Of course there are others that are peaceful in living, but im sure they have sinned in their lives, Jesus did not sin, and that is the big difference.

Hi

You should also remember that he lived for only maximum 33 years as per the NTBible and his disciples deserted him, I think, that might be the reason behind. It is my opinion, you can have your own.

Thanks

 

[nonsumd]

Of course there was wars in the name of Jesus, Mohammed etc.
But my statement said there was only one true man that walked the earth, his name was Jesus.
I dont recall Jesus starting any wars…
I dont recall Jesus speaking of starting wars in his name…
That is why i said, he and he alone is the ONLY real Peaceful man to walk on this earth, as he was the son of God.
Of course there are others that are peaceful in living, but im sure they have sinned in their lives, Jesus did not sin, and that is the big difference.

Of course, Jesus Himself did not start wars.

By the way, Muslims would say that Muhammad never started any wars, only responded to others making making war on the Muslim community.

You may disagree with this, but be prepared to explain how different the OT prophets who waged war and historical Christian leaders waging war are from Muhamad and the Muslims who take him as their model. Are you prepared to say that Joshua was misreading God’s will to peace or the Teutonic Knights who exterminated the original Prussians were doing the same?

If you say that, well, Joshua and the Teutonic Knights were following the command of the true God whereas Muhammad was following that of a false god, then you are saying our Judeo-Christian God is not a god of peace after all, that Jesus whom we believe to be the one and the same as the God who commanded Joshua and the Teutonic Knights is not the unique (God-)man of peace.

From the Muslim – and Jewish – point of view, Jesus’ declaring Himself to be God was far more sinful than waging defensive wars.

---

Now, if, as we Christians believe, Jesus was God, true God and true man, He cannot by definition be a “man of peace” in quite the same way as the Buddha or Gandhi or any being who is human and nothing else – there is no comparison.

Jesus’ sinlessness as the unique God-man should not make it impossible for mere humans like the Buddha and Gandhi to be regarded as true ****men of peace. That’s rather like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Montalban]

Of course, Jesus Himself did not start wars.

By the way, Muslims would say that Muhammad never started any wars, only responded to others making making war on the Muslim community.

Just 'cause some might say it, doesn’t make it true; though you certainly have evidenced you believe in it!

You may disagree with this, but be prepared to explain how different the OT prophets who waged war and historical Christian leaders waging war are from Muhamad and the Muslims who take him as their model.

You just did this by showing Jesus never started any. How can someone say “We follow Jesus” but do the opposite?

From the Muslim – and Jewish – point of view, Jesus’ declaring Himself to be God was far more sinful than waging defensive wars.

And thus all Christians who profess this truth are declaring war on Islam; hence their hate for us. You amaze me sometimes by stating the truth, but not quite realising its implications.

By professing Jesus is God we mark ourselves out as enemies of Satan. Moslems strike at Chrisitans all over the world for standing up for Christ.

 

[Montalban]

Of course there was wars in the name of Jesus, Mohammed etc.
But my statement said there was only one true man that walked the earth, his name was Jesus.
I dont recall Jesus starting any wars…
I dont recall Jesus speaking of starting wars in his name…
That is why i said, he and he alone is the ONLY real Peaceful man to walk on this earth, as he was the son of God.
Of course there are others that are peaceful in living, but im sure they have sinned in their lives, Jesus did not sin, and that is the big difference.

Nonsumd has the belief that all wars started by Moslems were caused by Christians - he argued this from Islamic attacks on Ethiopia, the Roman Empire, the Iberian Peninsula, etc.

When Christians do the opposite of Christ, then he beleives Christianity is just as bad as Islam

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi

You should also remember that he lived for only maximum 33 years as per the NTBible and his disciples deserted him, I think, that might be the reason behind. It is my opinion, you can have your own.

Thanks

Paarsurrey,
You have been over this time and time again, we have answered you time and time again.
Do you actually read the responses?

 

[dolphinlove]

Nonsumd has the belief that all wars started by Moslems were caused by Christians - he argued this from Islamic attacks on Ethiopia, the Roman Empire, the Iberian Peninsula, etc.

When Christians do the opposite of Christ, then he beleives Christianity is just as bad as Islam

Doh you got in before me!!
Thanks for answering for me… once again!!!
my hero!!!:bowdown:

 

[jedi]

Islam is the fastest going religion, and that is a fact. Christianity has diminished since around the time of Vatican II. Islam will eventually be the dominant religion in Europe, you already are aware of this. The Pope has on many occasions said that he has High regard for Islam and great esteem for Islam. It seems he has already admitted that Islam is taking/taken over. What they could not do with violence during the crusades they accomplish now, quietly and in sheer numbers. 50 years, I say less. The fact is this, Islam is doing a greater job at conversion than the Vatican. Actually I do not even see the Vatican pushing for conversion anymore. They are leaning towards the thing, oh what is it called, oh yeah.Ecumenism. That is where other religions are saved also, not only the just the Universal Religion founded by Our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ who is GOD. People wonder why even when the answer is right in front of them.

I totally agree with you. Christianity has diminished since vatican 2. and islam is the dominant force in european. God bless european and the world… our lady of victory / rosary protect us…

 

[andzy]

I totally agree with you. Christianity has diminished since vatican 2. and islam is the dominant force in european.

I’d say that Christianity has diminished since WWI, and especially after WWII. I don’t Vatican II had much to do with it. After all, it’s not just Catholic countries where Christianity has diminished, and Vatican II didn’t have much of an impact on Protestants.
Also, so far Islam is not a dominant force in Europe; secularism and materialism still rules unrestricted, and is the main threat to Christianity. At least in the near future Islam will not change that.

 

[dolphinlove]

I totally agree with you. Christianity has diminished since vatican 2. and islam is the dominant force in european. God bless european and the world… our lady of victory / rosary protect us…

There have been reports of Muslims in France converting to Christianity in big numbers, but of course they are keeping it quiet so there is no backlash
islamineurope.blogspot.com/2007/03/france-muslims-convert-to-christianity.html
zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?rep=2&aid=352375&sid=ZNS

So I wouldnt worry to much about Europe becoming too Islamic… yet…

 

[Montalban]

Doh you got in before me!!
Thanks for answering for me… once again!!!
my hero!!!:bowdown:

 

[Arbitro360]

Don’t fool yourselves. Islamic Jihad is resurgent around the globe and it is violent, virulent and implacable.

Read your history. Why did Christian Europe fight the Muslims for 1,000 years? Was it "Christian Imperialism? or was it to defend themselves from the onslaught of the Turks and the Moors who mercilessly invaded Europe and put Christians to the sword?

They are coming again and they have not changed in the least.

Study Islam, especially the themes of “Dawa,” “Taquiyya,” “Dhimmi” “Kuffar” and the true meaning of “Jihad” and “Dar-al Harb.”

Then organize and resist. Organize and resist. Organize and resist.

Do NOT be fooled by islamic “interfaith dialogue” or by islamic “civil rights” baloney. They mena to CONQUER Europe and the West.

Anyone interested in learning more, reply.

 

[Milliardo]

Don’t fool yourselves. Islamic Jihad is resurgent around the globe and it is violent, virulent and implacable.

Read your history. Why did Christian Europe fight the Muslims for 1,000 years? Was it "Christian Imperialism? or was it to defend themselves from the onslaught of the Turks and the Moors who mercilessly invaded Europe and put Christians to the sword?

They are coming again and they have not changed in the least.

Study Islam, especially the themes of “Dawa,” “Taquiyya,” “Dhimmi” “Kuffar” and the true meaning of “Jihad” and “Dar-al Harb.”

Then organize and resist. Organize and resist. Organize and resist.

Do NOT be fooled by islamic “interfaith dialogue” or by islamic “civil rights” baloney. They mena to CONQUER Europe and the West.

Anyone interested in learning more, reply.

I think, as much as I am rather moderate in my stance with regards to Islam, I agree with this. Though again, as a caveat, this must not mean we must be uncharitable with our brother Muslims.

 

[eliasaph99]

Hi

You should also remember that he lived for only maximum 33 years as per the NTBible and his disciples deserted him, I think, that might be the reason behind. It is my opinion, you can have your own.

Thanks

Haven’t you argued in other places that Jesus lived to be an old man and died in India?

 

[peary]

Seems like too many, if not most, people are resigned to the idea the Muslims will eventually take over europe because they multiply. Some stats are saying that in just 50 years or so some europeans would find themselves the minorities in their own countries. What would be the future of the Vatican in a muslim Italy if that happens? Imagine the Pope becoming a dhimmi. Even I find that idea revolting.

Maybe Europeans will find this as an excuse to start producing again.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

Please don’t be angree, we all have to coexist in this world alongwith many denominations/faiths/religions/agnostics. Not all Muslims are violent. For instance we Ahmadis are very peaceful people, we believe in arguments and dialogue, at least make some room for us. Have a little patience.
May GodAllahYHWH bless you!

Thanks

Dear Paarsurrey,

Regardless of your belief, many of us may have a sort of trauma with respect to Islam. Even in my country, your Ahmadiah is considered as heresy and subject to many physical attacks from your fellow muslims. Some of the Ahmadians in my country even consider to seek political asylums. Not many us have ever met a “cool” muslim like you or AbeOman. So, in this case, please be patient.