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bones_IV
Guest
Someone I talk said that the Vatican is a dictatorship. I was beside myself!
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rpp
Guest
There are many people who do not understand the hierarchy and how everyone is related. There is a good deal of misunderstanding out there.
Also, because in much of the Western world, representative Democracy as a form of government is touted to be absolutely superior to any other system that ever existed. Thus the idea that there can be a benevolent monarchy is beyond their experience.
What is the difference betweena benevolent monarchy (which is the closest analogy the Church hierarchy I can think of) and a dictatorship? The attitude of the leader.
If the leader is abusive, self-serving and power hungry, you have a dictatorship. If the leader views his role and one of enforcer requiring his subject to obey without question, that is a dictator.
If the leader is gentle, self-sacrificing and surrendered to the Holy Spirit, well, that is, at least, not a dictatorship. If the leader views his role as a guide and wants to clarify misunderstands with gentle explanations, that leader is not a dictator.
Also, because in much of the Western world, representative Democracy as a form of government is touted to be absolutely superior to any other system that ever existed. Thus the idea that there can be a benevolent monarchy is beyond their experience.
What is the difference betweena benevolent monarchy (which is the closest analogy the Church hierarchy I can think of) and a dictatorship? The attitude of the leader.
If the leader is abusive, self-serving and power hungry, you have a dictatorship. If the leader views his role and one of enforcer requiring his subject to obey without question, that is a dictator.
If the leader is gentle, self-sacrificing and surrendered to the Holy Spirit, well, that is, at least, not a dictatorship. If the leader views his role as a guide and wants to clarify misunderstands with gentle explanations, that leader is not a dictator.
J
jburgherr
Guest
It is not a dictatorship, it is a Kingdom…With Jesus Christ as the loving, benevolent King. The Pope is but the Chancellor and has no authority other than what the King gives him.
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rr1213
Guest
…except on earth the Pope gets to define what the King says (at least according to Catholics). In practice an absolute monarchy can be pretty close to a dictatorship.
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rpp
Guest
Truth is not determined by a majority vote.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Jesus Christ the King, is ruler of our Church. This is absolute monarch as Jesus as King. The Pope is his steward. If you want to accuse the Vatican as dictatorship, you might as well call Jesus a dictator.
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davidv
Guest
You did, implicitly, in your the pope is a dictator comment.
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rr1213
Guest
Actually I didn’t say ***that ***either. What I did say is set forth below:
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rpp
Guest
You implied that by your statement that a monarchy is close to a dictatorship.
The implication of your statement is that one of two systems are prefereable to the model of the Catholic Church. Theological anarchy where everyone interprets the Bible on their own. Or that somehow some type of democracy is the way to go.
We can see from the Old Testament that the Lord never established either of these systems of governance, either in the civil affairs of the Jews or in the organization of the Levitical priesthood.
In short, God never really made much a provision for voting on a large scale. And I think it is safe to assume that God does not generally anarchy and chaos.
Thus there is much precedent in the Old Testament for the structure of the Church.
Finally your statement “The Pope gets to define what the King says…” is also not accurate. The Pope cannot **define **this. He can only teach it. There are many things that some in the Church would like to see done. For example, the ordination of women priests. However it has been determined that the Church does not have authority to change this because it is part of the deposit of faith. The Pope just cannot make stuff up.
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surgei
Guest
If one looks up canon law as to the power of the popes, one finds he has the same rights as a dictator.
If one looks at the Vatican as a country, it is kinda an electoral dictatorship. That is there is an election of the dictator who reigns til death. Kinda scary when you realize it is a theocratic dictatorship.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
As Dr. Scott Hahn said:
“If the Pope in Rome is not the infallible vicar of Christ who can bind hundreds of millions of Catholics in their beliefs and practices, then he’s a tyrant. He’s a spiritual dictator pure and simple.”
But since the Pope is the infallible vicar of Christ…
As Dr. Scott Hahn said:
“If the Pope in Rome is not the infallible vicar of Christ who can bind hundreds of millions of Catholics in their beliefs and practices, then he’s a tyrant. He’s a spiritual dictator pure and simple.”
But since the Pope is the infallible vicar of Christ…
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rpp
Guest
Well! If you are going to be that way! The only response I can give you is…It’s amazing how much you are able to read into a simple statement.
So, try to interpret this one–
wait for it…
Yes, it is always important to keep our sense of humor!
May god bless you and Merry Christmas.
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