The Vatican

  • Thread starter Thread starter Berachiah
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Berachiah

Guest
Just watch History channel – Secret Access: The Vatican. Thirty feet below the tomb of Pope John Paul II underneath the original basilica was the tomb of St. Peter. A span of 2000 years from the first apostle to the last Pope was still entrenched in the Vatican. What a rich tradition and history.

Is this what Jesus meant by “the Gate of Hell will not prevail”?
 
Berachiah said:
Just watch History channel – Secret Access: The Vatican. Thirty feet below the tomb of Pope John Paul II underneath the original basilica was the tomb of St. Peter. A span of 2000 years from the first apostle to the last Pope was still entrenched in the Vatican. What a rich tradition and history.

Is this what Jesus meant by “the Gate of Hell will not prevail”?
Click to expand...
No, this is what Jesus meant that “you are Rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church”. That is why the Vatican sits above St. Peter’s tomb.
 
ConstantineTG said:
No, this is what Jesus meant that “you are Rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church”. That is why the Vatican sits above St. Peter’s tomb.
Click to expand...
And the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
 
Hey there,

We must take note of the fact that when christ spoke to Peter about building his church upon his ‘‘rock’’ he was primarily referring to a spiritual rock which are the teachings handed unto us from the first coming of christ. All physical things will perish: " Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away"… Matthew 24:35, including the tomb of Peter. We must’nt rely on what we see, feel, hear, etc…but rather place all our trust in God and utilise the teachings of the church which is the “rock” or “foundation” of our faith according to the will of God. We should’nt even trust the vatican let alone the pope in entirety; God alone.
Praise be to Jesus.
God Bless!
 
Peter is pretty clearly the rock on which the Church is built. Though other layers of interpretation for the text may be possible and indeed others were proposed by Church Fathers, the Petros/petra (or Kepha/kepha) wordplay is pretty obvious if you ask me, not to mention how the passage has been explained in the Church for centuries.

Anyway, it’s the Church Herself, with the office of the Papacy as a foundation to guard Her unity and orthodoxy, that we know will not fail. Theoretically the city of Rome could be destroyed by a nuclear bomb and future Popes would be titular bishops of a city that is now nothing but a radioactive wasteland, but they would still be the successors of St. Peter and Vicars of Christ.

On the other hand the Vatican does indeed currently at least give great witness to the continuity of the Church from the 1st Century to the 21st.
 
charlie4christ said:
Hey there,

We must take note of the fact that when christ spoke to Peter about building his church upon his ‘‘rock’’ he was primarily referring to a spiritual rock which are the teachings handed unto us from the first coming of christ. All physical things will perish: " Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away"… Matthew 24:35, including the tomb of Peter. We must’nt rely on what we see, feel, hear, etc…but rather place all our trust in God and utilise the teachings of the church which is the “rock” or “foundation” of our faith according to the will of God. We should’nt even trust the vatican let alone the pope in entirety; God alone.
Praise be to Jesus.
God Bless!
Click to expand...
Maybe not rely on what we see but I thought it is simply amazing how this church still can trace its origin in a physical way. It is kind of awesome for the human mind.

As for the Pope, nearly every head of state wants to meet him. I saw how Obama seemed to be very reverend in talking to the Pope. I am saying because one is the president of the most powerful nation on earth and yet the respect given to the Pope is very clear to see by his body language.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
On the other hand the Vatican does indeed currently at least give great witness to the continuity of the Church from the 1st Century to the 21st.
Click to expand...
Before the advent of radio most Catholics did not know about the Pope or how he looked like and his teaching nearly hardly reached them. But today a regular thirty thousand would throng the St. Peter square every Sunday to celebrate the mass with the Pope. The documentary shows teary faced women during the worship and while listening to the Pope’s sermon. Today the Pope’s message of the Gospel can be heard in every corner of the globe by the 1.2 billion Catholics.

The Vatican was the first to use radio as a mean to disseminate the Gospel. Now it is using the TV and cyber in equally effective fashion. Its radio staff alone working for Vatican Radio is more than four hundred in number and broadcast in ninety languages.
 
ConstantineTG said:
No, this is what Jesus meant that “you are Rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church”. That is why the Vatican sits above St. Peter’s tomb.
Click to expand...
Then what does he mean by “the Gate of Hell will not prevail”?
 
Berachiah said:
The link is not working.

Before the entrance to St Peter’s tomb, there is an inverted cross etched to the wall. Anyone knows of this significance? Was it symbolic of the apostle being crucified upside down on the cross?
Click to expand...
The link worked great for me. Wow. What a great way to visit the Vatican. No crowds, no money needed for a trip (would love to go but it is not in my budget). Absolutely beautiful.
 
Miriam1947 said:
The link worked great for me. Wow. What a great way to visit the Vatican. No crowds, no money needed for a trip (would love to go but it is not in my budget). Absolutely beautiful.
Click to expand...
Yes, I got it. It was quite slow in my computer and did not come out right away, I thought it did not work.

It is unbelievable that we can actually see the tomb of the apostle Peter. What a great monument for people to see today. God must have a plan for those who cannot believe until they see. It is as if the Gospel comes alive in this ancient monument.

Thanks.
 
Berachiah said:
Then what does he mean by “the Gate of Hell will not prevail”?
Click to expand...
The powers of death will not destroy the Church. IOW, “no matter how quickly or efficiently they kill you, the Church will go on.” The apostles (the first bishops) ordained bishops all over the then-known world to succeed them and lead the Church. Those bishops ordained others and so on…

Paul
 
Berachiah said:
Before the entrance to St Peter’s tomb, there is an inverted cross etched to the wall. Anyone knows of this significance? Was it symbolic of the apostle being crucified upside down on the cross?
Click to expand...
Because St. Peter felt he was unworthy of being crucified like his Master, he chose to be crucified upside down.
 
choliks said:
Because St. Peter felt he was unworthy of being crucified like his Master, he chose to be crucified upside down.
Click to expand...
Forgive me for my shallow knowledge on this, but is this the general belief among Catholics?

Is there any tradition that caused St. Peter to think likewise and decided to be crucified upside down? If he considered himself as not worthy, does that mean he put suffering in high regard or is this thought only for St. Peter and not for us? I mean for most of us, we would pray that we may not experience pain and suffering. I am not sure on that or whether it is the right attitude.

Anyway I am blown away by what he did but then again, what the apostle did have great implication for us, for are not we supposed to follow their example? Sorry if those are such big questions.
 
PaulDupre said:
The powers of death will not destroy the Church. IOW, “no matter how quickly or efficiently they kill you, the Church will go on.” The apostles (the first bishops) ordained bishops all over the then-known world to succeed them and lead the Church. Those bishops ordained others and so on…

Paul
Click to expand...
That will leave out a hypothetical situation where there will be no time for a bishop to ordain another in a catastrophic situation when death is so sudden that no Bishops are available or still alive.
 
Berachiah said:
Forgive me for my shallow knowledge on this, but is this the general belief among Catholics?

Is there any tradition that caused St. Peter to think likewise and decided to be crucified upside down? If he considered himself as not worthy, does that mean he put suffering in high regard or is this thought only for St. Peter and not for us? I mean for most of us, we would pray that we may not experience pain and suffering. I am not sure on that or whether it is the right attitude.

Anyway I am blown away by what he did but then again, what the apostle did have great implication for us, for are not we supposed to follow their example? Sorry if those are such big questions.
Click to expand...
Indeed, we pray that we may not experience pain and suffering. But if it comes to us, we are to embrace it for the love of our Lord. However, we need grace to even have courage to face pain and suffering.

From NewAdvent.org:
Concerning the manner of Peter’s death, we possess a tradition — attested to by Tertullian at the end of the second century (see above) and by Origen (in Eusebius, Church History II.1)—that he suffered crucifixion. Origen says: “Peter was crucified at Rome with his head downwards, as he himself had desired to suffer”.
Click to expand...
 
choliks said:
Indeed, we pray that we may not experience pain and suffering. But if it comes to us, we are to embrace it for the love of our Lord. However, we need grace to even have courage to face pain and suffering.

From NewAdvent.org:
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation. St. Peter is therefore way ahead than most of us in that he asked to suffer the crucifixion more than what it entailed.

What is most outstanding in this discovery is that it gives more credence to the fact that Jesus was actually crucified. This might be something that most people in this Forum will take for granted but there are people outside of Christianity who do not believe that Jesus died on the cross. St. Peter was a close aide of Jesus and would therefore have intimate knowledge of how his master died. There is no reason for him to ask to be crucified upside down if his master did not undergo the crucifixion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top