The Virgin Birth and Mary's Immaculate Conception

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From my understanding, Christ’s Virgin Birth had to be virgin in order to spare Him from original sin, and as a miracle. With Mary’s own Immaculate Conception, thus fully freeing her from original sin, why would Christ need a Virgin Birth? Or was His birth of a virgin purely to spare Mary from the non-celibate sexual act and as a miracle?
 
the virgin birth was a fulfillment of what Christians believe to be a prophesy in Is 7:14 (Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a child).

Notice that can be broken down into (a virgin shall conceive) and (a virgin shall bear a child) so that Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Jesus, as the Church teaches.

The virgin birth was probably also a requirment for the birth of Jesus, the Divinity, who was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Having a divine nature, Jesus was free from any stain of original sin, and this was not a consequence of any state of spirituality of Mary.

In spiritual terms, the New Testament refers to Jesus as the new or second Adam (someplace) and I think it may refer someplace to Mary as the second Eve (could be wrong on that).
 
Pls forgive me if I ask any question due to my lack of knowledge but I am striving to find the truth. My question is if Jesus is begotten son then how Mary can be virgin. Because it gives me a sexual image in my mind… you know what I mean.
 
Scameter18: Jesus was born of a virgin free from original sin because God could not allow His sinless Son be born in an unclean vessel.
 
(Edited)

Jesus was begotten of God - not of any man.

Jesus was conceived without Mary having sex. She was a virgin at the time that Jesus was conceived, and she remained a virgin during her pregnancy and for the remainder of her life after Jesus’ birth.
 
valentino said:
Scameter18: Jesus was born of a virgin free from original sin because God could not allow His sinless Son be born in an unclean vessel.
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It is ridiculous to state that a woman becomes “unclean” by having sex. And as God Himself, Jesus would not have been “tainted” by being born in human form in a natural procreative manner. So this cannot be the reason for the virgin birth.
 
scameter18 said:
From my understanding, Christ’s Virgin Birth had to be virgin in order to spare Him from original sin, and as a miracle. With Mary’s own Immaculate Conception, thus fully freeing her from original sin, why would Christ need a Virgin Birth? Or was His birth of a virgin purely to spare Mary from the non-celibate sexual act and as a miracle?
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Jesus had to be born of a virgin so that we could definitively say that he was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and not by a human male. And you’re right, if Mary didn’t need to be born of a virgin in order to be conceived without OS, then why would Jesus?
 
johnbres2 said:
It is ridiculous to state that a woman becomes “unclean” by having sex. And as God Himself, Jesus would not have been “tainted” by being born in human form in a natural procreative manner. So this cannot be the reason for the virgin birth.
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That’s not what was being said. valentino was merely pointing out that if Mary had been stained by original sin, she would not have been a pure or “clean” vessel.

No reference to sex was made or implied in valentino’s post.
 
valentino said:
Scameter18: Jesus was born of a virgin free from original sin because God could not allow His sinless Son be born in an unclean vessel.
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No. With God all things are possible. He could have been chosen to be born of a woman with original sin if he wanted to.It was not impossible. He chose to have her conceived immaculate because it was fitting for him to do so. It was a gift he bestowed upon her.
 
Seatuck said:
No. With God all things are possible. He could have been chosen to be born of a woman with original sin if he wanted to.It was not impossible. He chose to have her conceived immaculate because it was fitting for him to do so. It was a gift he bestowed upon her.
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Correct.

God could have done anything He chose.

He chose to preserve Mary from original sin because it was fitting that the son of God be born of a woman free from sin.
 
johnbres2 said:
It is ridiculous to state that a woman becomes “unclean” by having sex. And as God Himself, Jesus would not have been “tainted” by being born in human form in a natural procreative manner. So this cannot be the reason for the virgin birth.
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Mary was born without the stain of original sin on her soul, by virtue of her immaculate conception.
Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, who was without original sin and therefore “clean”. Her being a virgin was a result of her not having ever consummated her marriage to Joseph. Having sex is not the determining factor of her being “clean” or “unclean”: being born without original sin on her soul is what made her “clean”.
 
johnbres2 said:
It is ridiculous to state that a woman becomes “unclean” by having sex. And as God Himself, Jesus would not have been “tainted” by being born in human form in a natural procreative manner. So this cannot be the reason for the virgin birth.
Click to expand...
after a woman gave birth to a child a women had to go undergo a period o f purification for 40 days.She was not allowed to have relations with her husband until it was over.this law applied to all Jews.
 
Of course Jesus born without any male intervention. That is not my question. I am just asking when Mary conceived Jesus, at that time she was virgin, Right…

Now the word begotten… what does it mean exactly. I am saying it is a sexual act. How can we attribute such thing to GOD. That is why the word “begotten” is taken out from King James version.

There are lot of confusion man. GOD pls help us.
 
The Blessed Virgin’s own virginity was primarily for the miracle of the Virgin Birth, but it was also because she had been consecrated to the Jewish temple to be a virgin perpetually. She was not a virgin by accident of age. Further, while the sexual act itself does not “give” original sin, it is the way by which a new person is physically formed and thus the way they receive a body afflicted with original sin. Even though Christ’s Virgin Birth was inherently “clean”, due to the Holy Spirit’s conceiving act, He was also supposed to be fully human, born of a woman in all ways and thus receiving His physical attributes from Mary. Thus, she needed to be unclean. As with the Incarnation itself, God humbled Himself in this way, so that Christ would be fully human in all ways. Mary was not an incubator - she is Christ’s Mother in all ways.

@rainfly1: The word “begotten” does not inherently connote sex. It simply connotes the lineage of one person to another. Hence why the Bible can say that St. Joseph, Christ’s adopted father, could have “begotten” Him, because by Jewish law adoption gave all the heritage of the adoptive parent to the child.
 
As the Mother of our Lord. The Immaculate Conception makes perfect sense to me. If you (of any religion) believe that Jesus was completely pure, it is logical that while in Mary’s womb, her blood flowed through him, they were essentially one. The blood of Christ and the blood of Mary were the same. God would have taken every precaution to keep Christ pure in every way.
 
Very true. God did not simply implant Christ in Mary’s womb - He grew there, as any human would. Thank you for your imput. 🙂
 
(Edited)

It’s quite clear in Randy Carson’s earlier quote.
Randy_Carson said:
Jesus was begotten of God - not of any man.

…
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We have to try and expand our thinking a little . 1 . We think “begotten” is a sexual act, because we are sexual beings and we live and breathe as such. “How can we attribute such a thing to God” is actually the consequence of not attributing a thing to God.We need to also be aware that society does whatever it can to remove sexual acts from being generative or procreative.

“Begetting” for humans means to co-create with God. Life comes from God. God is Life. At the moment of conception, God gives the soul.

In the Nicene Creed, we say we believe in “…one Lord, Jesus Christ - the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father…” .

That doesn’t mean that God, in relation to Christ (Who is God), is,was, and ever shall be somehow involved in sex. Neither does it mean that sex was involved at all in the begetting of God’s only Son.But He does participate with us intimately in the creation of each new human life. God is the Creator.

You see… ? We end up with these mistaken notions because we are sometimes led by people who misuse words… who have limited capacity to comprehend the vocabulary which even they use. Often they never even ponder the origin of the words they’re using.

Don’t let anyone else confine or restrict your thinking just because theirs is.

🙂
 
I think the most persuasive point in favor of the immaculate conception is the fact that if Mary was tainted by the stain of sin, in her womb Jesus would have had tainted flesh. Flesh that would bear the sinful nature and concupiscence of man. Adam and Eve did not even have flesh like that, they were created good and only after sinning did they taint themselves. So if Mary had the stain of sin on her she would be providing Jesus with a body that was less pure than those of Adam and Eve, and for Christ to be a pure sacrifice He would have to be perfect in every way including the purity of His own body.
 
_L said:
I think the most persuasive point in favor of the immaculate conception is the fact that if Mary was tainted by the stain of sin, in her womb Jesus would have had tainted flesh. Flesh that would bear the sinful nature and concupiscence of man. Adam and Eve did not even have flesh like that, they were created good and only after sinning did they taint themselves. So if Mary had the stain of sin on her she would be providing Jesus with a body that was less pure than those of Adam and Eve, and for Christ to be a pure sacrifice He would have to be perfect in every way including the purity of His own body.
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Understandable reasoning…but not correct.

God could have preserved Jesus from the stain of original sin from the moment of his conception; however, He chose to preserve Mary from the moment of her conception, instead.

The end result is the same; Jesus did not inherit original sin. The advantage of God’s way is that Jesus grew up with a very saintly mother who obviously taught him much by her own example of holiness.
 
Where can I read in God’s word does it say that Mary was born without original sin? Thanks
 
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