The Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ

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Jimmytwoguns

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Recently one of my kids has just finished an Higher Examination in Religious Education at school here in Scotland.

They go to a normal state school where Protestant, Catholic, Moslem, etc go, but the large majority by far are nominally at any rate Protestant, probably 85%, Catholics about 14% Muslem 1%.

Anyway, she brought home her text book for her old dad to help her and I noted with shock the “official” textbook for the course and exam states that, as far as the Presbyterian Church of Scotland is concerned (by far the largest so called Christian denomination in this country, not some tiny wee sect, but the “State Denomination”) the belief in the miraculous Virgin Birth of Christ, is not one which must be accepted by someone in order to be a member of their church. I was staggered!!!

I believe this is frankly undermining the very foundations of the Christian faith. Perhaps many Protestants would be appalled at this, but for a text book to state this openly about the Church of Scotland means surely they must have had their approval. This is one of the many reasons we must fight so strongly to support the Catholic Church which keeps the Faith of the Apostles.

I’d be very interested to know what other Catholics and those from Non Catholic denominations think of this matter and if in particular the Protestants (of whatever denomination) believe that the Virgin Birth of Christ is a central, undeniable, fundamental and essential belief, in order for one to be a Christian. Or if it is merely, as the book claimed, a matter of personal belief whether to accept this doctrine or not.

If I may make so bold, I don’t want this thread bogged down with references to what some claim to be original texts, re whether the word in the OT prophesing a virgin giving birth, or in the NT describing Mary, means "young girl, or virgin. I think it’s a given that young girls in those times and circumstances, and in particular this young girl, set apart by God to play a vital role in our redemption, and unmarried, would have been a virgin in any event. I’d just lke a straight answer to a straight question.

Is a belief in the Virgin Birth of Christ essential to being a Christian?

God bless

Jimmy Two Guns
 
YES!You may want to consider home school.Will be praying for you and your child.
 
Wardrandolph,

Many thanks for your prayers. I will pray for you and yours too.

Fortunately, as my children are all Catholics they couldn’t really care less what the Church of Scotland holds or doesn’t. My only concern is for the erosion of the “christian faith” seen as a whole.
Now non believers will doubtless view this as one church denomination at least who at last is coming to their senses after belief in some ridiculous miracle all these years. This undermining of the True Faith is definitley of diabolical origin.

My kids have all left school now. As a matter of interest there is no such thing as home school in Scotland. (I take it that means teaching one’s kids at home?) Far from it my friend. As a defence lawyer I have defended parents for not taking kids to school. The law here is that if your fifteen year, 11 month old, six foot tall son doesn’t want to go to school, you must take him, and even if you march him to the headmaster’s room and place him in front of the headmaster’s desk, in the presence of the headmaster and your son runs off, you can be prosecuted for his non attendance.

God bless you and yours.

JTG’S
 
I think, with respect to the OP, one does have to go back to scripture to ascertain whether this particular belief is a necessary one.

Regardless of what word Isaiah or the NT used, the Gospels DO make clear that Mary hadn’t had sexual relations with any man prior to conceiving Christ (she says so herself) and that she didn’t sleep with Joseph afterwards either, so how one could reasonably come up with anything OTHER than a Virgin Birth is beyond me. So yes, it’s an essential belief for a Christian.
 
Hey LilyM, I think the reason they are able to come up with anything other than a Virgin Birth is that they chose to consider this as some sort of myth, despite what the bible says, which rather knocks their solo or sola scriptura arguments up in the air.

What still amazes me to this moment is that we’re talking about the Presbyterian Church In Scotland!!! This is the mainstream Protestant Church in which the vast majority of Protestants are baptised, married etc in. It’s the religion of the State, with a big statue of John Knox the so called reformer standing outside it’s HQ in the capital beside Edinburgh Castle.

God bless

JTG’S

Undoubtedly as I say the origin is diabolical
 
I have a Presbyterian friend (here in the U.S.) who has told me that the Nicene Creed is recited during the Presbyterian services … but she has never been taught what it means. She does not believe in the Virgin birth either, yet, when reciting the Creed, proclaims that “by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”

go figure.

well, at least let’s keep praying for our Protestant brethren everywhere.
 
Why would the OP consider to be “bogged down” with Isaiah 7:14 and Mt. 1:23?

That’s “ground zero” for understanding the whole thing.

If you read Isaiah 7:13 -15 you will see that this is a special sign for the nation of Israel.

I don’t know how it would be special, unless Mary was, as the Roman Catholic Church teaches, that she was a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.

Mary’s perpetual virginity is a perpetual sign of who Jesus is, as prophesied in the Bible.

I think there are a lot more bogs in Scotland than in the U.S. It’s easier to get bogged down there with just about anything. We’re not bogged down with the beauty and truth of scripture 😃
 
Crumpy, when I said bogged down, I meant getting lost in a discussion of whether the original word in scripture for virgin and young women are the same, as I’ve heard this argued by people who use it to cast doubt on the fact that Mary was a virgin and state the bible means merely a young woman.

JTG’S
 
I believe Archbishop Rowan Williams of the Anglican Communion stated last year that one does not have to believe in the Virgin Birth in order to be a Christian.

How can you recite a creed in onne breath and the next say that you don’t believe in certain points or that they are optional?
 
Hi Idrum677,

I didn’t know that about the Archbishop of Canterbury, but it surprises me not.

JTG’S
 
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