The Virgin Mary may have looked something like this

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And a lot of the people who created artistic depictions in the Middle Ages had probably never actually seen a Middle Eastern person. Most people in human history lived and died within 10 miles of where they were born and probably were only dimly aware of the wide variety of human appearance.
Probably true of most peasants, but not merchants, mercenaries, masons, or shippers. Merchants and their goods traveled all over Europe in the Middle Ages. That’s why we find Baltic amber in Byzantine jewelry, Italian faience in Poland and coins from everywhere everywhere. As Chaucer tells us in the Knight’s Prologue, his knight was from Flanders, fought for the Sultan of Constantinople and the Teutonic Knights in the Battle on the Ice and was then engaged in a pilgrimage to Canterbury. The Hansa, of course, was everywhere, shipping Baltic cod to Italy and Spain, Russian beeswax to French candlemakers, and tuns of Italian wine to Lubeck.

They got around better than we sometimes think they did.
 
It’s just that we have no reason to assume her appearance was particularly atypical. It’s also possible Jesus was 6’8. Men do sometimes reach that height. However, since we having nothing indicating he was exceptionally tall (presumably if He was, people would’ve commented on it) it’s safer to assume he was probably more or less average height.
Based on the Shroud of Turin most if the calculations put His height between 5’9” and 6’2 Which would have been tall for back then, when the average man was around 5’5.
 
Well you’re assuming the Shroud of Turin is genuine when, according to the scientific community, it is not.
 
I like it. I work with a Jewish woman of Mediterranean ancestry and she is always lamenting her bushy eyebrows and gets them attended to regularly. Since I have very sparse eyebrows I envy her.
As for me, I always picture Mary as the woman on the tilma - Our Lady of Guadeloupe.
 
Probably true of most peasants, but not merchants, mercenaries, masons, or shippers. Merchants and their goods traveled all over Europe in the Middle Ages.
Sure. There were people who traveled far and wide for military or commercial reasons. There were city dwellers who presumably at least saw foreign merchants coming and going in passing. The point is that there were way more peasants than soldiers and merchants. The average person was pretty provincial by modern standards, and probably lived, worked and died in a smallish community composed almost entirely of members of their own ethnic group.

Getting back to the point of the thread, I’m not sure why you keep pointing out individual counterexamples as though they disprove the overall trend. No one is arguing that there isn’t individual variation among large human populations. To take one example, Genghis Khan is supposed to have had reddish hair. From this, we can reasonably conclude that red hair was almost certainly highly unusual for a Mongol. For one thing, it was remarkable enough for writers to comment on. If every other Mongol male had red hair, they may not have bothered to note it. Second, the contemporary art of Mongols we have depicts them with dark hair. Finally, modern people from the Mongolian steppe who are descended from the Mongols of Genghis’ time look, well, Mongolian. If we didn’t have contemporary writers commenting on Genghis’ red hair, the safe assumption would be that he probably had dark hair. It would be entirely unreasonable to say “Genghis Khan had red hair, therefore we can’t predict what hair color a random Mongolian man might have had. They’re all equally likely.”

Turning back to the Virgin Mary, all I’m saying is that in the absence of any compelling evidence that her appearance was atypical in some way, the safer assumption is that she probably looked more or less like the average person from her time and place. That’s all. It doesn’t preclude the possibility that she did have some less common feature, like very fair skin or light eyes. It just means that it’s the less likely scenario.

As you said earlier, none of this matters in any real sense. It wouldn’t change our theology to find out that Mary looked Korean or Scottish or Amazonian. It’s just a question of historical interest. The question of racial bias (and to be clear, I’m not accusing you of this, this is a general statement about the way these threads sometimes play out) comes up when someone has a strongly negative reaction to images like those in the OP. Since it wouldn’t change anything spiritually significant if she DID look like that, what motivates people to balk so hard at the possibility?

It would be like if I told you “I think Bob is left-handed” and you recoiled and said “NO! Bob must be right-handed! He’s a great guy, no way he’s left-handed!” I might reasonably conclude you had some animus against left-handed people, because the normal reaction would just be to shrug and say “Oh, okay.”
 
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The average person was pretty provincial by modern standards, and probably lived, worked and died in a smallish community composed almost entirely of members of their own ethnic group.
Allow me to correct this a bit. The Medieval laws regarding marriage were so restrictive as to consanguinity and affinity that it was nearly impossible to marry within one’s own tribe. That meant one pretty much had to go outside his own community to find a spouse. The Church deliberately did that in order to break up tribalism. People moved around more than we often think they did, which is why, for example, an Alsatian’s DNA test might turn up Scandinavian and northern Italian material, as was the case with my wife.
 
Turning back to the Virgin Mary, all I’m saying is that in the absence of any compelling evidence that her appearance was atypical in some way, the safer assumption is that she probably looked more or less like the average person from her time and place.
But you see, you’re assuming what the “typical” or “average” person from her part of the world looked like 2000 years ago, without actually knowing. The premise assumes the conclusion. It’s just a circle that demonstrates nothing.
 
But you see, you’re assuming what the “typical” or “average” person from her part of the world looked like 2000 years ago, without actually knowing. The premise assumes the conclusion. It’s just a circle that demonstrates nothing.
This is where we’ll just have to disagree. I think you’re vastly underestimating what we can reasonably know here. We obviously can’t be certain, but I think we can safely say that people didn’t look vastly different. Like, I think you’d agree that that we can safely conclude Scandinavians in the year 1 AD didn’t look Chinese. When bog bodies or well preserved remains are digitally reconstructed, they don’t look vastly different than modern people from the same ethnic group inhabiting the area.

But we can just chalk this up to disagreement and quit beating the horse. 😀
 
When bog bodies or well preserved remains are digitally reconstructed, they don’t look vastly different than modern people from the same ethnic group inhabiting the area.
On the other hand, the Tarim mummies from Sinkiang, China are pretty clearly Celtic in appearance, complete with red or blonde hair in what is now a sea of Han Chinese.

And with that, I really will quit.
 
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Kidding, kidding.
 
Well you’re assuming the Shroud of Turin is genuine when, according to the scientific community, it is not.
According to everything, the Shroud of Turin is authentic. The 1988 radiocarbon dating estimated the age to the Middle Ages, but subsequent scientific studies have shown that for multiple reasons that radiocarbon testing cannot be reliable. For one, the edge section of the shroud that was tested was likely contaminated. As for the reliability of Carbon14 estimates, there have been some real doozies. Scientists at the Geological Laboratory of Columbia University found that some estimates of age based on carbon analyses were wrong by as much as 3,000 years. The 1988 carbon14 dating of the shroud is now more famous for it being unreliable than as being an accurate reading. But just as atheist will refuse that God exists despite all the evidence, there are those who will dismiss the shroud and keep bringing up the flawed 1988 carbon14 dating despite the mountain of evidence that proves it is authentic.

In the history of the shroud throughout the centuries it was put on public display on feast days, with people holding the shroud from its fringes with their bare hands, the same section that was used in the 1988 Radiocarbon test.(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
And also as simple is that my faith doesn’t depend on the Shroud being genuine. I obviously can’t speak for everyone.
 
It’s not just “Catholics”, It’s for anyone with a brain to evaluate the evidence from a logical perspective. All the evidence supports it being a 1st century relic with bloodstains of a crucified man who had a crown of thorns on his head and a wound in his side. The test made last century in 1988 has been superseded by new data about the shroud, and a process that created the image that 21st century science still cannot explain. Being that Jesus Christ is a historical figure who split history in two, it’s no surprise that there is a relic of his burial cloth. The issue is not the evidence, but rather, the psychological complex of someone who does not want to believe regardless of all the overwhelming evidence.
 
I know I’m the king of derailing threads, so I’m not one to talk, but people want to debate the Shroud of Turin might be better just to start a new thread.
 
All the evidence supports it being a 1st century relic
I am fine with Catholics (or anyone) arriving at their own conclusion, be it through faith or other means. But it is a pretty big stretch to say all the evidence is on one side. These kind of extreme (and false) statements just reinforce already problematic prejudices about religious folks.
 
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