The Virgin Mary?

[planehopr]

I live in a Catholic Household, but I have so many questions about my family’s beliefs that they cannot answer? With no intention of being disrespectful, I would like to start with a couple of them here.

I am fairly certain that with the highly educated people of today’s time and with the tools available to us, there is no way we would take anyone’s word on the claims that have been made for 2000 years.

If a girl today said she was a virgin and yet she was pregnant, I think even the Catholic church would send for their own tests using modern science to validate that. Yet we had no real way of proving or disproving those claims 2000 years ago.

My question: If you found out that a human man actually had procreated with Mary and made the baby named Jesus, would it change the way you believe in the Catholic faith?

Other questions I have follow a similar logic–In today’s times would you take anyone’s word for it on any number of the miracles performed by Jesus claimed to have happen? Why don’t we hold the claims of the bible to the same standards as we would hold such claims today?

 

[edowitz1]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[samiam1611]

I live in a Catholic Household, but I have so many questions about my family’s beliefs that they cannot answer? With no intention of being disrespectful, I would like to start with a couple of them here.

I am fairly certain that with the highly educated people of today’s time and with the tools available to us, there is no way we would take anyone’s word on the claims that have been made for 2000 years.

If a girl today said she was a virgin and yet she was pregnant, I think even the Catholic church would send for their own tests using modern science to validate that. Yet we had no real way of proving or disproving those claims 2000 years ago.

My question: If you found out that a human man actually had procreated with Mary and made the baby named Jesus, would it change the way you believe in the Catholic faith?

Other questions I have follow a similar logic–In today’s times would you take anyone’s word for it on any number of the miracles performed by Jesus claimed to have happen? Why don’t we hold the claims of the bible to the same standards as we would hold such claims today?

Excellent questions. I don’t believe a lick of it. I guess people just want to believe in it so they bury those thoughts of reason in the dark recesses of their mind.

 

[thirddec]

We do and we have to so if we could go back and analyse miracles we would. Thats why the church takes great care before officially saying a miracle has happened. We can only operate with the tools we have available.

And yes if someone were to go back and find it was false it would have a shattering effect on the faith and on a large portion of humanity including muslims as their Koran confirms the virgin birth so they would have to chuck the Koran away too.

Its not going to happen in my lifetime and I will have the answer when I pass on.

 

[uxordepp]

I live in a Catholic Household, but I have so many questions about my family’s beliefs that they cannot answer? With no intention of being disrespectful, I would like to start with a couple of them here.

I am fairly certain that with the highly educated people of today’s time and with the tools available to us, there is no way we would take anyone’s word on the claims that have been made for 2000 years.

If a girl today said she was a virgin and yet she was pregnant, I think even the Catholic church would send for their own tests using modern science to validate that. Yet we had no real way of proving or disproving those claims 2000 years ago.

My question: If you found out that a human man actually had procreated with Mary and made the baby named Jesus, would it change the way you believe in the Catholic faith?

Other questions I have follow a similar logic–In today’s times would you take anyone’s word for it on any number of the miracles performed by Jesus claimed to have happen? Why don’t we hold the claims of the bible to the same standards as we would hold such claims today?

Why do I believe? Because of what came before and what came afterward. Jesus arrival had several thousand years of lead-up. He was the fullfillment of the prophecy that came through the Jews. Mary’s virgin birth fit in to all this too. A woman claiming a virgin birth today would be of little consequence, as the Messiah has already come. Many such stories exist, but it was Jesus’s story that fulfilled the prophecy

Now, what came afterward? Well, the miracles continue. The Church continues despite an on-going attempt to destroy Her…often seemingly coming from within her own ranks.

If it were somehow proven that Jesus had an earthly, natural, genetic father, then I suppose I would become a Jew.

I don’t see it happening.

 

[wild_thing]

I live in a Catholic Household, but I have so many questions about my family’s beliefs that they cannot answer? With no intention of being disrespectful, I would like to start with a couple of them here.

I am fairly certain that with the highly educated people of today’s time and with the tools available to us, there is no way we would take anyone’s word on the claims that have been made for 2000 years.

If a girl today said she was a virgin and yet she was pregnant, I think even the Catholic church would send for their own tests using modern science to validate that. Yet we had no real way of proving or disproving those claims 2000 years ago.

My question: If you found out that a human man actually had procreated with Mary and made the baby named Jesus, would it change the way you believe in the Catholic faith?

Other questions I have follow a similar logic–In today’s times would you take anyone’s word for it on any number of the miracles performed by Jesus claimed to have happen? Why don’t we hold the claims of the bible to the same standards as we would hold such claims today?

Sigh.

 

[wild_thing]

Excellent questions. I don’t believe a lick of it. I guess people just want to believe in it so they bury those thoughts of reason in the dark recesses of their mind.

Double sigh.

 

[RuthByzCat3]

Read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. When the Bible is held to modern standards of historical accuracy, it actually beats out Plato, Herodotus’ (?) life of Alexander the Great, and several other historical documents.

Just a sample:
The life of Alexander was written 300 years after the fact.
1 Corinthians was written ~20 years after the fact.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I live in a Catholic Household, but I have so many questions about my family’s beliefs that they cannot answer? With no intention of being disrespectful, I would like to start with a couple of them here.

I am fairly certain that with the highly educated people of today’s time and with the tools available to us, there is no way we would take anyone’s word on the claims that have been made for 2000 years.

If a girl today said she was a virgin and yet she was pregnant, I think even the Catholic church would send for their own tests using modern science to validate that. Yet we had no real way of proving or disproving those claims 2000 years ago.

My question: If you found out that a human man actually had procreated with Mary and made the baby named Jesus, would it change the way you believe in the Catholic faith?

Okay prove the standard biological approach and then well see what happens. How much time will you need?

Other questions I have follow a similar logic–In today’s times would you take anyone’s word for it on any number of the miracles performed by Jesus claimed to have happen?

?? Wouldn’t that be part and parcel to being a Christian? or do you mean if new miracles occurred, or do you mean if someone falsely claimed new miracles?

      Why don't we hold the claims of the bible to the same standards as we would hold such claims today?

I think we do, did.

Are you asking if one can have religion without faith the answer is no

 

[Theophorus]

I live in a Catholic Household, but I have so many questions about my family’s beliefs that they cannot answer? With no intention of being disrespectful, I would like to start with a couple of them here.
I am fairly certain that with the highly educated people of today’s time and with the tools available to us, there is no way we would take anyone’s word on the claims that have been made for 2000 years.

That in itself is quite a claim to make, that in our sophistication we should not believe in the past would the claims you dismiss include the circumference of the earth?(as first calculated by Eratosthenes ca. 250B.C) Just because the knowledge has been available for millennia doesn’t mean its wrong

If a girl today said she was a virgin and yet she was pregnant, I think even the Catholic church would send for their own tests using modern science to validate that. Yet we had no real way of proving or disproving those claims 2000 years ago.

Of course we would conduct tests we do so with any claim of miracles, please don’t be shocked by that. People of that time didn’t just accept the story they examined it as well.

My question: If you found out that a human man actually had procreated with Mary and made the baby named Jesus, would it change the way you believe in the Catholic faith?

It would have implications, yes. What if you found out a human man actually did not procreate with Mary to “make” the baby named Jesus, would it change the way you think about the Catholic faith?

Other questions I have follow a similar logic–In today’s times would you take anyone’s word for it on any number of the miracles performed by Jesus claimed to have happen? Why don’t we hold the claims of the bible to the same standards as we would hold such claims today?

In a word we do hold the claims of the bible to the same standards as we would hold such claims today. There are several hundred early manuscripts available whose textual differences are minuscule. there are non-catholic sources available which given similar information so we consider these reliable sources. As I have said above we scrutinise any report of miracles and examine the available information.

With no intention of being disrespectful, I would suggest you look again at what the Catholic church teaches and also into the discipline of logic.

 

[planehopr]

I don’t know how to quote and stuff.

To answer one of the responses. If I was shown modern scientific evidence that Mary was really a Virgin and that Jesus was the result of something divine…I would become a Christian in a heartbeat. I would love nothing more than to have my doubts and questions laid to rest once and for all as I have a family that is waiting for me to come over to their side and become a Catholic.

A lot of things that were proposed centuries ago do hold true. Just look at the mathematical precision the Egyptians built their pyramids. Some things don’t hold true like that the earth was flat or the sun revolves around the earth. I think its up to any modern world to keep testing the things we take for granted to see if they still hold true by what ever modern standards we have at the time.

When I hear the words Virgin Birth coming from a source 1000’s of years old I am concerned that we may be blindly believing something that we should be trying to put to the test. The stories of men only go so far. It defies all logic and reason. There was a man who wrote a book called “The Power of Myth”…he explains that the ideas in Christianity like Virgin Birth of a Son from God is not a new one. Greek Mythology is full of this stuff. I definitely want to see more proof before I blindly follow ideas that may have been stolen from other cultures.

 

[samiam1611]

When I hear the words Virgin Birth coming from a source 1000’s of years old I am concerned that we may be blindly believing something that we should be trying to put to the test. The stories of men only go so far. It defies all logic and reason… I definitely want to see more proof before I blindly follow ideas that may have been stolen from other cultures.

So true

 

[pablope]

I don’t know how to quote and stuff.

To answer one of the responses. If I was shown modern scientific evidence that Mary was really a Virgin and that Jesus was the result of something divine…I would become a Christian in a heartbeat. I would love nothing more than to have my doubts and questions laid to rest once and for all as I have a family that is waiting for me to come over to their side and become a Catholic.

A lot of things that were proposed centuries ago do hold true. Just look at the mathematical precision the Egyptians built their pyramids. Some things don’t hold true like that the earth was flat or the sun revolves around the earth. I think its up to any modern world to keep testing the things we take for granted to see if they still hold true by what ever modern standards we have at the time.

When I hear the words Virgin Birth coming from a source 1000’s of years old I am concerned that we may be blindly believing something that we should be trying to put to the test. The stories of men only go so far. It defies all logic and reason. There was a man who wrote a book called “The Power of Myth”…he explains that the ideas in Christianity like Virgin Birth of a Son from God is not a new one. Greek Mythology is full of this stuff. I definitely want to see more proof before I blindly follow ideas that may have been stolen from other cultures.

The Biblical NT accounts were written between 30 to 40 years after the facts, so these were not affected by any myths, legends. There is also the fact, well documented, of the early Christians being persecuted and dying for their faith. Do you honestly think they would choose death if what they believed was not true?

Investigate also the following:

The apparition at Lourdes, France, where the Blessed Virgin said she was the Immaculate Conception, the 1917 miracle of the sun at Fatima where 50,000 plus witnesses were present. And more recently, look a the life of Padre Pio, who received the wounds of Christ on his body (one of several saints), he passes away only in 1968.

And the bodies of saints whose bodies have remained incorrupted to this day, who bear the smell of flowers.

And this event on 1947: youtube.com/watch?v=dDgoNlOn-hk

After watching this, ask yourself this…Why was the assistance of the Catholic Church requested?

And then read this book…scribd.com/doc/43209605/The-Rite-by-Matt-Baglio-Excerpt

 

[thirddec]

I have heard that old one but isn’t Christianity just ideas stolen from elsewhere and it the question isn’t new. It was debated by the old church fathers too. Iraneus I think used the logic that satan spread facimile ideas around before and after Christ to discredit the truth. I don’t necessarily follow that one but who knows.

The fact of the matter is with no TV or generally available Books ; thinkers of those ancient days had plenty of time for thought. The fact that they begin to develope similar themes is no accident. As all over the world i’m sure they came to the conclusion things fall down not up.

The Question you need to ask yourself is what was different about Christianity that it should start the way it did ; was severely persecuted by an empire used to eliminating anything it was threatened by but still survive and grew and still represents the beliefs of a significant portion of the earth.

It has been the scrutiny of scholars for 2000 years and all the evidence it has is there for scrutiny. It continues to develope and still has evidence of miracles worked in the name of its God. Miracles that you can read up on and science cant explain.

Think of all the other religions and test do any match up in wholeness of doctrine, in amount of evidence of Gods continuing hand; and on a world wide level with direct persecution of individuals or attack by the media and government agencies.

You are a lucky person as today its so easy to research anything you care about.
Do the sums and you will find there is only one answer if you do it in honesty and humility.

If you are a Christian do it in prayerfullness; if not try asking Jesus Christ to send his Holy Spirit on you as you investigate, whats the worst that can happen?

 

[Randy_Carson]

I don’t know how to quote and stuff.

How to use the Catholic Answers Forum Quote Function

If you want to respond to something that someone else posted, you can simply hit the “Quote” button on the lower right…not the “Post Reply” button on the lower left. Simply begin typing after the text that the forum automatically copies for you. That’s what I did at the beginning of this post above.

If you want to insert your comments into the middle of something you are quoting, you have to manually insert square brackets. Here is the original passage I want to comment on:

Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot, and everywhere that Mary went, his sooty foot he put.

In order to show you what you need to do, I have to use a different set of brackets for illustrative purposes only. I’ll use { and } instead of and ] so that you can see where the brackets should be located, and I’ll insert my comments in red text.

{quote}Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot,{/quote} I’m inserting my comments here in red. {quote}and everywhere that Mary went, his sooty foot he put.{/quote}Hope this helps.

Now, wherever you see the { or } you have to actually use a square bracket or ]. So the paragraph above comes out like this:

Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot,

I’m inserting my comments here in red.

and everywhere that Mary went his sooty foot he put.

Hope this helps.

One more thing: the quote function will automatically insert the name of the person to whom you are replying so that person can find your response more easily.

 

[Randy_Carson]

My question: If you found out that a human man actually had procreated with Mary and made the baby named Jesus, would it change the way you believe in the Catholic faith?

Other questions I have follow a similar logic–In today’s times would you take anyone’s word for it on any number of the miracles performed by Jesus claimed to have happen? Why don’t we hold the claims of the bible to the same standards as we would hold such claims today?

planehopr-

Most of the people who were the earliest disciples of Jesus believed that he died and rose from the dead. This proved to them that He was God, and no amount of torture could get them to deny their faith in Him. They died as martyrs rather than deny what they had seen and witnessed with their own eyes.

I’m guessing that you have not read much of the New Testament - forgive me if this is incorrect. The four gospels recount these eyewitness stories of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection.

Why do you suppose that these people were willing to die for their beliefs?

 

[rocketrob]

To answer one of the responses. If I was shown modern scientific evidence that Mary was really a Virgin and that Jesus was the result of something divine…I would become a Christian in a heartbeat. I would love nothing more than to have my doubts and questions laid to rest once and for all as I have a family that is waiting for me to come over to their side and become a Catholic.

Knowing man’s natural reaction to His Gospel, God directly addressed this question and position in Scripture:

From John 20
24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you.
27 Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.
28 Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God.
29 Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.
30 Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book.
31 But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you may have life in his name.

The stories of men only go so far. It defies all logic and reason.

This is a true statement. If this is how you view Scripture, it may explain why you are struggling. The Gospel is foolish in the world’s eyes. It can only be understood by logic and reason informed by faith.

(1 Cor 1:18) For the word of the cross, to them indeed that perish, is foolishness; but to them that are saved, that is, to us, it is the power of God.

I would love nothing more than to have my doubts and questions laid to rest once and for all …

If this is true, you are well on your way…

rocketrob

 

[onenow1]

HI, Plane,
As Rocket said you are on your way if ?

Do you think that I have come to establish peace on Earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. (Lk 12:51–53)

This prophecy was made by Jesus, 2000yrs ago, and the world has only proved it to be true, throughout history, since.

God Bless
onenow1

GOD was asked why He did not create people who could find cures for cancer
and aids. He replied, “I did but you aborted them.”

 

[joplee]

In today’s times would you take anyone’s word for it on any number of the miracles performed by Jesus claimed to have happen?

You don’t think the political Jewish landscape at the time of Jesus did everything they could to discredit what He stood for? That the Roman Empire tried to do everything in its power to stop this new Christian teaching, including killing and torturing believers?

Ask yourself, why would someone be willing to die for something that was fabricated, a lie. They would not. The witnesses of Jesus resurrection were willing to die because they knew the truth. Those who never saw Jesus came to believe based on these witnesses, and the signs that they were able to perform. If Christ rose from the dead, and fulfilled the prophecies foretold (Google “how many prophecies did Jesus fulfill”), proving to His followers that He is the Messiah that He is the Son of God, then a virgin birth is easy to believe.

Check out these Eucharistic miracles: therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

By the way, what Jesus did while he walked the earth really does defy all logic and reason. That is why the Catholic Church continues to this day regardless of the persecution it receives.

 

[Della]

As to other virgin birth stories from various ancient cultures, that is easily answered by remembering that we all came from Adam and Eve who were told by God the following:

Genesis 3:15 I will put enmity between you [the serpent] and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel."

This is called the proto-evangelium or proto-gospel promising the Savior would be born of a woman and destroy the power of the evil one. Every human culture has some form of this promise since every human culture came from the same parents. J. R. R. Tolkien helped C. S. Lewis out of his atheism by pointing out to him that all myths tell us truths, but not all myths are the truth. There’s a difference.

For example, I am rereading the mythologies of Greece, Rome and the Norse. There are many delightful stories about how things became what they are, but mostly they are morality stories, telling us how we should believe (in Someone higher than ourselves), how we should act (love one another) and how we should be (virtuous). It’s because, once again, these peoples who made these stories were descendants of Adam and Eve. These peoples had lost the original promises, but still had natural law, which God has put into every heart, to draw from. The stories were meant to remind us of our duty towards God and others.

The thing that makes the Gospel account of the virgin birth different is that it’s about real people in a real time and a real place. We know the names of the people involved: Joseph, Mary, Elizabeth, Zacharia, etc. We know where they lived and what they did–enough to tell us what we need to know, that is. The Gospels are not modern biographies, rather they are a collection of accounts from various people all telling the same story, each emphasizing what they thought was important to relate.

The way we know that Mary was telling the truth is by Jesus’ resurrection. As St. Paul put it, “If Christ be not raised from the dead your faith is in vain” (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:17). Now, that’s blunt enough. People in that time and place didn’t use the scientific method–actually, the scientific method was developed by Catholic religious studying the natural world. And no, the people of Galileo’s time didn’t think the earth was flat, and they did wonder if the earth went around the sun or vice versa, but there was no firm consensus on the question at that time and no one was condemned for thinking otherwise.

I’m afraid you know too little of real history and real science and far too much of what you’ve heard and read in popular society, most of it wrong and biased. The Church decided at the Council of Ephesus in 431 that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. It was certainly believed before then, but it was at that council that all the evidence was brought forward and examined–both for and against to settle the matter once and for all. So the matter has been determined based on all available data, to use a modern phrase.

When the Church examines miracles today it goes by the word of doctors (for healing miracles) and scientists to determine is anything spiritual happened or not. If the Church decides something truly spiritual and of God happened, it says we are free to believe it–it’s called “worthy of belief”. So yes, the Church does look into these questions long and hard before making decisions. You need to read the right books/authors on this topic not take the word of those who know little to nothing about how the Church does things.