The prefixing and suffixing of the word used in Lk 1:28, and Eph 1:6 do not change its meaning, but its timing, and duration.
I engage unbelievers of all kinds.
The word in that passage has nothing to do with salvation, and, nothing to do with sinless, spotlessness,”, but with grace, or favor.
How are Catholics “unbelievers?”The prefixing and suffixing of the word used in Lk 1:28, and Eph 1:6 do not change its meaning, but its timing, and duration.
Hey, you don’t have to worry about the grammar; you have to believe it de fide; you don’t need to make any excuses for me.
I engage unbelievers of all kinds.
That would be nice for your argument, but nope. :nope:
You’re a pistol, Joey.
No, the meaning of the word, ***favor, or grace, *** does not change; just the timing, and duration of the word.
The perfect tense describes an action as completed at the time of writing or speaking. While dealing with the past to some extent, the perfect tense is primarily concerned with the present time.
I give up. Apparently, you are very hard headed and look to the passage with Protestant lenses. I have tried to approached this as clear and simple as I can without losing my charity.The word in that passage has nothing to do with salvation, and, nothing to do with sinless, spotlessness,”, but with grace, or favor.
Now, in Eph 2:8, we find the Greek word for salvation, zodzo, in the very same perfect, passive, participle form: zezōdzmenoi, so then, you must now believe, Manny, that once you are saved, you are, to use your own words, “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with salvation." IOW, once saved, always saved.
But, you won’t believe that, because you are inconsistent in these things, and because the church doesn’t teach that concerning salvation, but only teaches it concerning the spotless, sinless, perpetual virginity, so on, so forth, of Mary.
Truly a red herring. Does Peter mention or point us to anyone else? If not then “alone” would be quite appropriate. Does Peter say we are granted everything pertaining to life and godliness through the “true knowledge” of Mary? Somehow “guano” inserted Mary into this 2nd Peter passage. Maybe you can help him out in showing us the origin of this teaching, or how one can replace Christ with Mary.Peter said Christ “alone?” It isn’t in the quote you provided. Must be like “Bible alone,” “Faith alone,” etc.
Mary herself points us to her son. Even the approve apparition of Mary contest to that.
That’s the gospel according to Manny; salvation is eternally the same: grace alone, faith alone, in God alone; that did not change from the OT to the NT; it has always been.
I do not believe that Mary lived in sin, but that she was, as every one was, conceived, and born in Adam, and that she committed personal sin; that is the clear, and consistent testimony of scripture concerning everyman’s condition; believe it, or not, Manny.
Where did Jesus that?
Red herring? How? You are using faulty logic. If I said, you can buy hamburgers at McDonalds, you wouldn’t conclude that you can buy hamburgers at McDonalds “alone,” because I didn’t mention any other restaurant chain.
Yes.Can sin and grace both occupy the same space?
You are absolutely right. Catholics try to use this word to justify that this means she was sinless throughout her entire life. Rather, the context tells us what this “full of grace” means and its not about being sinless but having the grace needed to bring the Christ into the world and be a godly mother to Him. There is nothing in this passage that would lead us to think she was without sin her entire life or that she be sinless to bring Christ into the world.That doesn’t answer my question; however, I’m not surprised by your circular answer.
“Without sin,” is not given in any lexicon as a definition of the word in question.
Mary is not my life, and my hope; she may be that for you, but for me, my life and hope is Christ—alone.
Excuse, me—temporal punishment for sin.
Correct; because we the bear Adam’s guilt.
Begs the question—your conclusion is assumed in your premise.
When God told Noah to build an ark, He told Noah to cover the ark with “pitch,” Heb “kofer.” The primary meaning of that word is “ransom,” as well as, “satisfaction,” or “covering,” even “atonement.”
**Romans 5:20
A red herring, yes indeed. Peter was very specific in his teaching. The logic would be: If I said you can buy McDonalds hamburgers at McDonalds, one would then conclude you can buy only McDonalds hamburgers at McDonalds.
No it isn’t. There’s absolutely NOTHING in the text about Mary, much less she fulfilling anything.
Where in the text does Peter say that the intercession of Mary has granted to us for everything pertaining to life and godliness? Again, where is Mary even mentioned at all in the passage? The truth is “Guano” inflicted the passage with that Marian doctrine. A doctrine totally foreign to Scripture.
No one said the text mentioned Mary. Guanophore (please stop the childish shortening to “guano”…grow up) said that Mary fulfills Peter’s statement. IOW…she is an example of someone who has been granted “His precious and very great promises.” You are using a straw man argument.
Of course I can’t but I can read.
You can’t hear me, Manny.
What kind of charity is that when you just attack me by your petty remarks “until you are blue in the face.” I hardly think that is Christlike or Christian at all.As I said in my last post, you refuse to believe the same about salvation from Eph 2:8, so you can talk until you are blue in the face; you are inconsistent, and use one standard for doctrines you want to believe, and another standard for doctrines you don’t want to believe, even though the verb tensing is identical in each case.
Faith Alone is Protestant doctrine not founded in Scripture.
Call it what you want. but to deny God’s grace save Mary, you find yourself at odds with Jesus.
Cite a Biblical Verse that Mary commited a personal sin. The Bible is very silent on that.
27* As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!” 28* But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” Luke 11:28
No.
Wrong. Without specific information to the effect that you can ONLY buy McD’s burgers at McD’s I COULDN’T properly conclude that you could only buy McD’s burgers there. Or that you can’t buy them anywhere else.
Here is what i was responding to:
