The Virgin Mary

[jabelltulsa]

But you say let time be the test?

Of course not - What I am saying is that if a belief has been held since the time of the apostles and the early Church fathers, then has Christ failed to deliver His Promise that the Gates of Hell (deception/lies) shall not prevail against Her? Only today to people challenge Mary and her role and the honor due her. This is not a minor issue - if these Doctrines were false, then the Gates of Hell have prevailed.

 

[Ginger2]

Quote rig: “You also should not have instructed the woman you mentioned, because it is not your place to guide her. The Holy Spirit would have brought her to the correct understanding on her own, correct?”

Shame on me for reading Scripture to a blind woman.

I believe the Holy Spirit did give her understanding. It surely didn’t come from me.

One time I was speaking to a homosexual man. Before I met with him I thought, “Lord, I can’t do this. I don’t know what to say.” Then I asked God to speak to him thru me and that the man would hear what God wants to tell him despite what I might say.
When we spoke, the man kept responding to things I wasn’t saying. I have to believe that God answered may prayer and saved me from screwing up the whole meeting.

You see, it really has nothing to do with me. God does what He wants despite our weaknesses. All I am is a willing servant. I was willing to read to someone and God did the rest. I was willing to talk with someone and God did the rest.

It’s such a relief to know that God is in control.

BTW The gay man has been married to a woman for several years now. He says he is happy. But again I say this had absolutely nothing to do with me.

So maybe I should not have "instructed the woman or the man. But then would I not be refusing to do what we were commanded by Jesus?

“GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES, …” (Matthew 28:19)

 

[jmcrae]

Of course not - What I am saying is that if a belief has been held since the time of the apostles and the early Church fathers, then has Christ failed to deliver His Promise that the Gates of Hell (deception/lies) shall not prevail against Her? Only today to people challenge Mary and her role and the honor due her. This is not a minor issue - if these Doctrines were false, then the Gates of Hell have prevailed.

And then it took Christ more than 1500 years to “correct the error” by sending the Protestants to come up with more than 100 different interpretations of the Scriptures, while saying “Scripture alone.”

 

[jmcrae]

Quote rig: “You also should not have instructed the woman you mentioned, because it is not your place to guide her. The Holy Spirit would have brought her to the correct understanding on her own, correct?”

Shame on me for reading Scripture to a blind woman.

But, according to your belief system, nobody is allowed to read the Bible to anyone else. She must read it for herself, by herself, so as not to be influenced by someone else’s idea of what it might mean.

I believe the Holy Spirit did give her understanding. It surely didn’t come from me.

You acted as a Mediator of the Holy Spirit!! OOH, evil, bad!! Just like the priest in Confession, you were letting the grace flow through YOU to her, instead of making her seek it out all by herself!!

So maybe I should not have "instructed the woman or the man. But then would I not be refusing to do what we were commanded by Jesus?

HAH!! So (unlike the teachings of your religion, which is every man for himself; no mediators allowed) Jesus really does want us to be mediators for each other? But that’s what the Catholic religion teaches.

“GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES, …” (Matthew 28:19)

Really? You mean, it doesn’t say, “Go and make them all read their Bibles on their own, and come to their own conclusions, all by themselves?” :bigyikes:

HMMM, this could mean that the Catholic Church is right about something.

 

[jabelltulsa]

And then it took Christ more than 1500 years to “correct the error” by sending the Protestants to come up with more than 100 different interpretations of the Scriptures, while saying “Scripture alone.”

It makes my head aspolde uch:

 

[rlg94086]

Quote rig: “You also should not have instructed the woman you mentioned, because it is not your place to guide her. The Holy Spirit would have brought her to the correct understanding on her own, correct?”

Shame on me for reading Scripture to a blind woman.

LOL…I missed the part that she was blind. My apologies.

I believe the Holy Spirit did give her understanding. It surely didn’t come from me.

One time I was speaking to a homosexual man. Before I met with him I thought, “Lord, I can’t do this. I don’t know what to say.” Then I asked God to speak to him thru me and that the man would hear what God wants to tell him despite what I might say.
When we spoke, the man kept responding to things I wasn’t saying. I have to believe that God answered may prayer and saved me from screwing up the whole meeting.

You see, it really has nothing to do with me. God does what He wants despite our weaknesses. All I am is a willing servant. I was willing to read to someone and God did the rest. I was willing to talk with someone and God did the rest.

It’s such a relief to know that God is in control.

BTW The gay man has been married to a woman for several years now. He says he is happy. But again I say this had absolutely nothing to do with me.

So maybe I should not have "instructed the woman or the man. But then would I not be refusing to do what we were commanded by Jesus?

“GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES, …” (Matthew 28:19)

All that you have said here explains why people go to the Church for instruction. The Church is an instrument of the Holy Spirit. Why do you believe you are an instrument of the Holy Spirit, but not the Church?

Again, if what you teach someone is contrary to what the Church teaches someone, who is the Holy Spirit working through? It is too prideful to make the assumption it is you who are blessed, and not the Church established by Christ when He was on earth.

 

[jabelltulsa]

LOL…I missed the part that she was blind. My apologies.

 

[rlg94086]

You are laughing with me and not at me, right?

 

[jabelltulsa]

You are laughing with me and not at me, right?

heheh … it just struck me as funny … I guess at you a little.

 

[rlg94086]

heheh … it just struck me as funny … I guess at you a little.

Meanie.

Okay, I am going to be watching for every one of your posts now, so I can enjoy your misstep.

 

[Ginger2]

“according to your belief system,”

jmcrae, maybe you should find out what my “belief system” is before you criticize it.

Quote: “nobody is allowed to read the Bible to anyone else. She must read it for herself, by herself, so as not to be influenced by someone else’s idea of what it might mean.” This is in no way what I have said - or at least not what I meant to say I don’t understand where you get all these strange ideas from.

Your post is too full of errors about my “belief system” for me to answer. So I’ll just say that the test for truth is found in Scripture - not in snipets - but the whole Bible which is the inerrant Word of God…

 

[Ginger2]

rig “Why do you believe you are an instrument of the Holy Spirit, but not the Church?”

I believe God uses all things to work together toward His good and perfect will.

The Holy Spirit is with us to the end of the age. It is one why God communicates to us and thru us. .

Luk 9:49,50 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Do not forbid me to speak of the wonderful things God has done for me.

Luke 7:41-50
“Two people were in debt to a certain creditor; one owed five hundred days’ wages 12 and the other owed fifty. Since they were unable to repay the debt, he forgave it for both. Which of them will love him more?” Simon said in reply, “The one, I suppose, whose larger debt was forgiven.” He said to him, “You have judged rightly.” Then he turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? When I entered your house, you did not give me water for my feet, but she has bathed them with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but she has not ceased kissing my feet since the time I entered. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she anointed my feet with ointment. So I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven; hence, she has shown great love. 13 But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little.” He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” The others at table said to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” But he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

God’s kingdom is bigger than the RC.

 

[jmcrae]

“according to your belief system,”

jmcrae, maybe you should find out what my “belief system” is before you criticize it.

Quote: “nobody is allowed to read the Bible to anyone else. She must read it for herself, by herself, so as not to be influenced by someone else’s idea of what it might mean.” This is in no way what I have said - or at least not what I meant to say I don’t understand where you get all these strange ideas from.

From reading Evangelical Christian web sites. You are Evangelical Christian, right?

Your post is too full of errors about my “belief system” for me to answer. So I’ll just say that the test for truth is found in Scripture - not in snipets - but the whole Bible which is the inerrant Word of God…

If it’s okay for you to be a mediator of the Holy Spirit, then it is certainly okay for Catholics to be mediators of the Holy Spirit. Including Mary the mother of Jesus.

 

[jabelltulsa]

Your post is too full of errors about my “belief system” for me to answer. So I’ll just say that the test for truth is found in Scripture - not in snipets - but the whole Bible which is the inerrant Word of God…

I have to point out that it is impossible for Catholics to know what all protestants believe. The vary from church to church. Protestants can debate Catholics because you can easily research what we believe. We have unity in our beliefs. Protestant churches do not. How are we to know what someone outside the Church believes - there is no unity there.

Do you see the dilemma?

 

[NewTestLeper]

http://content.worldgroups.com/GRP006/GrpPhotos/m/morbidcuriosities/070328/232530000.JPG

 

[Allstarbaby]

he a skanky ho who lied about having a baby from god so that joseph wouldn’t dump her for a sheep,mary was the village bike.

 

[Church_Militant]

God’s kingdom is bigger than the RC.

You’ll never get a real argument from us about that.

However, if, as history shows, the Catholic Church is the same historic church that Christ Himself founded and whose sacraments He established, then why would any faithful believer not want to be part of it?

So often I hear and see n-Cs assert that their church or theology can be traced back to the apostles and the early church just because they quote scripture to support them. Most of them have never read the writings of the early church and have no clue what they wrote, so then they give us Catholics a case about extra Biblical sources, which is dumb (IMO) because they accept modern historic sources and yet neglect the ones that have the most to offer on the most important issue of our lives- Our faith.

So, though you are certainly right that the Kingdom of God is bigger than the Catholic Church per se, there’s no valid reason (IMO just rationalizations and excuses) for anyone who loves Our Lord to remain outside it.

 

[jabelltulsa]

MODS!!! Please do something about the last couple of posts!!!

 

[Ginger2]

Jabelltulsa: “Protestants can debate Catholics because you can easily research what we believe. We have unity in our beliefs. Protestant churches do not. How are we to know what someone outside the Church believes - there is no unity there.”

That’s not entirely true. Church Father have made contradictory statements. I have spoken with Catholics who defend their statements using quotes from Church Fathers, - even tho those statements may not be supported in the CC, but then when I quote one back, they tell me that was his personal opinion or he didn’t mean it literally.

As a matter of fact, we have Catholics in this forum debating with each other.

Also, the Church has stated that the St Jerome translation contains errors, so some arguments are based on a faulty translation. It has been corrected. Thanks to another Catholics on another thread I can share this:

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JPTHESAU.HTM
Apostolic Constitution SCRIPTURARUM THESAURUS
Pope John Paul II

Here is an excerpt: "In realizing this revision, “the old text of the Vulgate edition was taken into consideration word for word, namely, whenever the original texts are accurately rendered, such as they are found in modern critical editions; however the text was prudently improved, whenever it departs from them or interprets them less correctly.”

 

[rlg94086]

rig “Why do you believe you are an instrument of the Holy Spirit, but not the Church?”

I believe God uses*** all things*** to work together toward His good and perfect will.

The Holy Spirit is with us to the end of the age. It is one why God communicates to us and thru us.

Of course, and this includes the Church He established on earth. You have said that people should not go to the Church for the correct interpretations of Scripture. Why not?

Luk 9:49,50 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Do not forbid me to speak of the wonderful things God has done for me.

I have not forbade you to do anything. I am just making the statement that you have a prideful belief that the Holy Spirit speaks correctly through you, but that people should not turn to the Church for guidance. It is a double-standard. If I have your interpretation versus the Church’s interpretation, I will certainly trust the Church. She has been around much longer (as you paraphrased - the Holy Spirit has been with Her since the Pentecost and will be “to the end of the age”).

Luke 7:41-50
“Two people were in debt to a certain creditor; one owed five hundred days’ wages 12 and the other owed fifty. Since they were unable to repay the debt, he forgave it for both. Which of them will love him more?” Simon said in reply, “The one, I suppose, whose larger debt was forgiven.” He said to him, “You have judged rightly.” Then he turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? When I entered your house, you did not give me water for my feet, but she has bathed them with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but she has not ceased kissing my feet since the time I entered. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she anointed my feet with ointment. So I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven; hence, she has shown great love. 13 But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little.” He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” The others at table said to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” But he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

God’s kingdom is bigger than the RC.

I’m not sure how you think that your quote from Luke has anything to do with the authority of the Church.

BTW…where has anyone said God’s Kingdom is limited to the Catholic Church? Certainly, I wouldn’t tell the angels that they have to come down to earth and become Catholic. The Catholic Church is part of God’s Kingdom.