The Waning of the 'Worship Wars'

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Out: Organs, bulletins, and choirs.
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In: Spoken amens, raising hands during worship, and using projection equipment for song lyrics and sermon notes.
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This change to the American church is deeper than just a formality swap, said the authors of the latest National Congregations Study (NCS).
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Instead, it’s part of a “decades-long trend in American religion away from an emphasis on belief and doctrine and toward an emphasis on experience, emotion, and the search for a least-common-denominator kind of worship in a time of ever less salient denominationally specific liturgical and theological content,” wrote the authors of the latest wave of the three-part NCS, one of the most rigorous surveys of local religious congregations in the US.
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christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/december/waning-of-worship-wars.html
 
Interesting that they say Catholic congregations are declining. Wonder where that supposed stat came from.
 
surritter said:
Interesting that they say Catholic congregations are declining. Wonder where that supposed stat came from.
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You have to remember CT is a Protestant news service. It’s not really saying anything we don’t already know. But the paragraph quoted says “…less salient denominationally specific liturgical and theological content…” which I wonder if this is directly related to the growing disinterest in religion among Millennials.
 
JustaServant said:
You have to remember CT is a Protestant news service. It’s not really saying anything we don’t already know. But the paragraph quoted says “…less salient denominationally specific liturgical and theological content…” which I wonder if this is directly related to the growing disinterest in religion among Millennials.
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Why is that something that we already know? The Catholic Church in America gets more converts each year than any other group. (Yes, it also has a huge number who fall away, but in my area at least the parishes seem to be growing.)

You’re certainly right about Millennials, though.
 
One of the problems using statistics from magazine articles, or from surveys, is that magazines only sell copies, or get internet “hits”, when they report major changes. No one purchases surveys that report minimal changes, no magazine buys articles that have nothing surprising to report, to catch the reader’s attention, or get discussed among your target audience. We don’t know how many surveys were done, that didn’t get printed up in the media. Only the “interesting” ones make it.

Just once, I’d like to watch the newscaster say “We only have 3 minutes of actual news tonight. Why not spend the other 57 minutes reading a good book, or talking with your family?”
 
PJH_74 said:
The 2015 PEW Christian Survey:

pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/

The relevant statistic:

pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/pr_15-05-12_rls-03/

The Catholic Church has net lost about 11% of its membership between 2007 and 2015, this is by far more than any other denomination.
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The Pew study is interesting in relation to Catholicism especially in the revert and long term areas. It seems those that convert in are more likely to remain, and those that convert out are more likely to come back. Those that do not come back usually go evangelical or secular. If evangelical, they will most likely leave that and/or go secular and not return.

This same stat is evident even more strong among Eastern Orthodox and more so among Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Catholics and Assyrians (I assume the latter three are statistically insignificant in the USA).
 
SyroMalankara said:
The Pew study is interesting in relation to Catholicism especially in the revert and long term areas. It seems those that convert in are more likely to remain, and those that convert out are more likely to come back. Those that do not come back usually go evangelical or secular. If evangelical, they will most likely leave that and/or go secular and not return.

This same stat is evident even more strong among Eastern Orthodox and more so among Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Catholics and Assyrians (I assume the latter three are statistically insignificant in the USA).
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I wonder if it’s tied into the form the Orthodox, Oriental, and Catholic churches take. By that I mean that they’re generally large, hierarchical, and are both a faith and in many ways a cultural experience. It seems to me the latter part would have much to do with why converts tend to stay and why converts out will sometimes revert.
 
commenter said:
No one purchases surveys that report minimal changes,
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Magazines, news shows, etc., absolutely. The Pew Research Center, this is what they do and they have no profit motive nor do I see any real political motive here either.

The stats from the Pew and the Christianity Today articles are telling to my eye. I suspect the Evangelicals are gaining members since they are flashier and have less very old churches in the “wrong” places and elderly people. The are losing members since they tend to lack theological depth. Catholic and Mainline churches have older churches and members who leave church roles by death more often.

I’m going to be a bit blunt and being a fairly conservative Catholic board I expect some flack for saying so. However there is a worrying difference in the gain rate for the Mainline and Catholic churches, which have more similar baggage and worship styles in general. Mainlines are gaining 3 times more new members and losing less. The Catholic church doesn’t do all that great of a job explaining its ways to new people. More Catholics than other denominations were born into the faith than any other US denomination. Also, from personal experience there is not as much room for those in the Catholic church with more liberal social views.
 
surritter said:
Interesting that they say Catholic congregations are declining. Wonder where that supposed stat came from.
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In areas of the country where there are relatively few immigrants, the decline is pretty pronounced. Here’s an example of one such report from a mid-Michigan diocese. The data is a little out of date (through 2011), but Catholic weddings were down by 44% in one diocese over a less than ten year period. Mass attendance down 16% in just 6 years.
 
mjwise said:
In areas of the country where there are relatively few immigrants, the decline is pretty pronounced. Here’s an example of one such report from a mid-Michigan diocese. The data is a little out of date (through 2011), but Catholic weddings were down by 44% in one diocese over a less than ten year period. Mass attendance down 16% in just 6 years.
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Yep. The Catholic Church without immigrant numbers bolstering overall numbers is in just as much of a pronounced decline as most mainline protestant denominations. And even with immigrant numbers Catholic numbers as a whole are holding steady, or declining slightly depending on who you’re asking/who is polling in the US, particularly taking into account population growth.
 
Padres1969 said:
Yep. The Catholic Church without immigrant numbers bolstering overall numbers is in just as much of a pronounced decline as most mainline protestant denominations. And even with immigrant numbers Catholic numbers as a whole are holding steady, or declining slightly depending on who you’re asking/who is polling in the US, particularly taking into account population growth.
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By the Pew study they are declining faster than the Mainline even with the immigrants. Not that it is the only study by any means. But it is a long running one, covering many denominations, using decent methods; which should make it reliably self comparable. There aren’t too many of those around to my knowledge.
 
I certainly didn’t mean to derail the OP’s idea by harping on the Catholic statistic. So how about the original premise: What does everyone think of having wild music and projector screens in church (Catholic and non-Catholic)?
 
surritter said:
I certainly didn’t mean to derail the OP’s idea by harping on the Catholic statistic. So how about the original premise: What does everyone think of having wild music and projector screens in church (Catholic and non-Catholic)?
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It’s not worship, it’s a rock concert.
 
surritter said:
I certainly didn’t mean to derail the OP’s idea by harping on the Catholic statistic. So how about the original premise: What does everyone think of having wild music and projector screens in church (Catholic and non-Catholic)?
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Wild music is one thing, but projector screens are useful. Way easier to read along, and not lose your place. Also, they can be easier for vision impaired people to read.
 
theropod said:
Also, they can be easier for vision impaired people to read.
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You have a point there. Otherwise, I can’t stand them. However, it’s not so big a deal if the room looks like a conference center. That isn’t meant to be snarky; I’m just saying that I think the projector is tacky in a church. It’s weird to look around and see everyone staring off into space above your head, when the altar is elsewhere. At least with a book you can glance on and off the page. I agree with Chesterton. A room without books is like a body without a soul. Oh well. No one asked me.
 
surritter said:
I certainly didn’t mean to derail the OP’s idea by harping on the Catholic statistic. So how about the original premise: What does everyone think of having wild music and projector screens in church (Catholic and non-Catholic)?
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Pass.

Projectors make me feel like I’m in class or something.

“Wild music?” Just no.
 
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