The way Jesus spoke to Mary at the Wedding at Cana

[Holly3278]

Hey everyone. I have a question. Why did Jesus speak to His Blessed Mother, Mary, the way He did at the Wedding at Cana? I am not saying that He was disrespectful or anything of the sort as I do not believe for one moment that He would be. However, the Scripture is confusing. Here it is:

On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples. When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” Now six stone jars were standing there, for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the steward of the feast.” So they took it. When the steward of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward of the feast called the bridegroom and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first; and when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
(John 2:1-11 RSV-CE)

So why did He speak that way to her in the first sentence of His dialogue with His mother? Also, why did He say His time had not yet come? Was He speaking of His time to be crucified? If so, why would He have said this in response to them being out of wine. Or was He saying it was not yet His time to perform His first miracle? If so, why did He do it right then?

 

[Holly3278]

Hey everyone. Here’s what the Haydock Catholic Bible Commentary says about it:

John 2:4
Some of the Fathers have spoken without sufficient precaution on this action of the blessed Virgin; supposing she was actuated by some inclination to vanity, in begging her Son perform a miracle on this occasion; that some of the glory of it might accrue to her, and that on this account our Saviour answers her with severity, saying, Woman, (not Mother) what is it to thee or me. Other Fathers, with more reason, attribute the interference of the blessed Virgin to her charity and compassion for the new married couple. Whatever turn be given to our Saviour’s answer, it must be acknowledged it has in it the appearance of something severe. But the Fathers have explained it with mildness, observing that our Saviour only meant to say, Mother, what affair is it of ours if they want wine? Ought we to concern ourselves about that? Others think that he wished, by these words, to let his Mother know that she must not forestall the time appointed by the heavenly Father, as if her demand were unseasonable and out of time. But most of the Fathers and best commentators understand, that he speaks here not as man and Son of Mary, but as God; and in that quality, he observes to his Mother, I have nothing in common with you. It is not for you to prescribe when miracles are to be performed, which are not to be expected in compliance with any human respect. I know when my power is to be manifested for the greater glory of God. (Calmet) —See the like forms of speech, Mark i. 24; Luke iv. 34; &c. — My hour is not yet come. It is not yet time. He waited till the wine was quite done, lest any should believe that he had only increased the quantity, or had only mixed water with the wine. He would have his first miracle to be incontestable, and that all the company should be witnesses of it. (St. Augustine, et alii patres passim. — Christ’s first miracle in the New Testament, was a kind of transubstantiation in changing water into wine; the first miracle Moses performed when sent to the Jews, was transubstantiation. (Exodus iv.) The first Moses and Aaron performed, when sent to the Egyptians, was transubstantiation. (Exodus vii.)

I found this to be useful but I would like further (name removed by moderator)ut from everyone.

 

[Kopratic]

{This will probably be a very basic answer.}

I’ve always been taught that Mary being called woman wasn’t a sign of rudeness {as you already know} but a sign of her being the new Eve. In John’s gospel, Jesus calls his mother woman instead of mother. Jesus is the new Adam. Adam called his wife Woman before the fall.

Jesus changed water into wine at a wedding feast – thus allowing everyone to drink the best wine. Ven. Fulton Sheen equates what happened on the cross between Mary and Jesus as a wedding. On the eve of his crucifixion, Jesus changed wine into his blood. Then, on the cross he poured out his blood.

{I’m not sure if I’m making any sense here. Sorry!}

I had never heard of the notion that Jesus was meaning that the wine was not fully out yet…interesting.

 

[4most4christ]

Why did Jesus speak to His Blessed Mother, Mary, the way He did at the Wedding at Cana? I am not saying that He was disrespectful or anything of the sort as I do not believe for one moment that He would be. However, the Scripture is confusing. Here it is:

… why did He speak that way to her in the first sentence of His dialogue with His mother? Also, why did He say His time had not yet come? Was He speaking of His time to be crucified? If so, why would He have said this in response to them being out of wine. Or was He saying it was not yet His time to perform His first miracle? If so, why did He do it right then?

The key is “My hour has not yet come”, in this Jesus claims the right to choose the time for working and for displaying His Divine power. Mary did wrong in going beyond her proper bounds, asking Jesus to perform a miracle before He had come into His time to make known His works as the Savior, though He is Savior all along. Her anxiety about the inconvenience endured by others (about celebrating with more wine) and her desire to have it in some way mitigated, proceeded from humanity, and should be regarded as a virtue. This passage openly warns us to beware of being superstitiously in elevating the name of mother in the Virgin Mary. She’s not the Savior, or the queen of Heaven; she’s Jesus’ mortal mother. It’s enjoyable that how, since she is His mother, she directs the waiter to ask Jesus to do something. Such a shrewd Mom-like way to get her boy to do something!

Verbatim: The Greek words in this passage are “Τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοὶ” & aren;t as harsh as our modern interpretations might make it seem. They literally mean, “What to me and to thee?”, yet the Greek phraseology loses none of its importance as the Latin, “Quid tibi ecum?” meaning “What have you to do with me?”

 

[Lasting_faith]

The key is “My hour has not yet come”, in this Jesus claims the right to choose the time for working and for displaying His Divine power. Mary did wrong in going beyond her proper bounds, asking Jesus to perform a miracle before He had come into His time to make known His works as the Savior, though He is Savior all along. Her anxiety about the inconvenience endured by others (about celebrating with more wine) and her desire to have it in some way mitigated, proceeded from humanity, and should be regarded as a virtue. This passage openly warns us to beware of being superstitiously in elevating the name of mother in the Virgin Mary. She’s not the Savior, or the queen of Heaven; she’s Jesus’ mortal mother. It’s enjoyable that how, since she is His mother, she directs the waiter to ask Jesus to do something. Such a shrewd Mom-like way to get her boy to do something!

Verbatim: The Greek words in this passage are “Τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοὶ” & aren;t as harsh as our modern interpretations might make it seem. They literally mean, “What to me and to thee?”, yet the Greek phraseology loses none of its importance as the Latin, “Quid tibi ecum?” meaning “What have you to do with me?”

Mortal mother? Not the Queen of Heaven? Have you any idea what you just did wrote? Mary was taken to Heaven, she did not die. Yes, she is not our savior, yet she pray for us. We do not worship Her. That is true, but we love Her as our Blessed Virgin.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

But most of the Fathers and best commentators understand, that he speaks here not as man and Son of Mary, but as God; and in that quality, he observes to his **Mother, I have nothing in common with you. It is not for you to prescribe when miracles are to be performed, which are not to be expected in compliance with any human respect. **I know when my power is to be manifested for the greater glory of God. (Calmet) —See the like forms of speech, Mark i. 24; Luke iv. 34; &c. — My hour is not yet come.

I have trouble with the bolded language. Why do we pray and ask God to do things for us if we don’t expect some miracles to occur? Also, if Jesus had that attitude then why did he go right on and do the miracle she asked? Because he does perform miracles in response to his mother’s intercession. Mary was interceding for these people, making Jesus aware of a problem that he was able to fix. This is exactly the sort of thing that the Old Testament Queen would do (1 Kings 2: 19-20). It is the sort of thing caring women in a position to influence powerful men do. Jesus may even have been annoyed, but he complied with her request.

As others have noted, our Lord’s use of the term “woman” here isn’t necessarily disrespectful. We are taught that the word “woman” in the passage is to turn our thoughts back to Genesis 3:15 and to make us see that this woman is doing things differently than Eve. Mary’s reaction to Jesus and directions to the servants suggest to me that she understands it is up to HIM whether or not to perform the miracle yet also reflect great confidence that he will do exactly what she asks.

The part of this exchange I find most interesting is when Jesus says, “My hour has not yet come”. This is a reference to his passion. It seems like an odd time to be talking about that and so this is where my thoughts begin to get a bit wild. So the fundamental question I have is –did Mary know that is what he meant? We know from the other gospels that Jesus informed the disciples that he was going to die. It seems reasonable to believe he had told Mary that as well. In fact, it seems likely to me that God’s plans were revealed to Mary as Jesus grew up and embarked on his ministry. Because that is how God is. He gave us free will – to choose him and his plan for our life. Things unfold for us bit by bit. We may not know the whole path he has set out for us, but he does often reveal the next step. So, I have come to believe she knew exactly what he meant. If so, then what he is really saying is this: “Mother, do you understand what you are asking me to do? If I perform this miracle, it is going to start my ministry and the countdown to my death. Are you sure you want me to do this now”? It is like he is giving her a chance to stop him. She could have said: “OK. Let’s wait.” Or, “Let’s not do it at all”. But, she doesn’t. Rather, she turns to the servants and tells them: “Do whatever he tells you”. This suggests not only that she understands that what he does is up to him, but also that she believes this miracle and all of its consequences are the Father’s will and that Jesus will do exactly what she asks. Her reaction says: “Yes I know what I am asking. Yes I want you to start this”. It’s kind of like Abraham taking Isaac up onto that mountain with the intent to sacrifice him when that is what God told him to do.

Even if I am totally wrong about that, we should not overlook what this woman did for us is saying yes to the angel Gabriel. Remember that in choosing to be born of Mary, our Lord entrusted himself to her…a human. He trusted her to raise Jesus, to help him prepare for and execute his mission, and to support the apostles after his death. We have no idea why he did it that way, but it is so amazing that he came to us through her…that he performed his first miracle at her request…and that he gave her to us as our Mother on the cross. And this is why it is right for us to love her and ask for her help whenever we can. She wants to help us.

 

[4most4christ]

Mortal mother? Not the Queen of Heaven? Have you any idea what you just did wrote?

Indeed I do grasp the fact that she is not part of the Holy Trinity.
She is revered, venerated, adored, and a beautful saint, and we should understand she is not mankind’s Savior. Jesus is the only way.

 

[Regina_Love]

Hey everyone. I have a question. Why did Jesus speak to His Blessed Mother, Mary, the way He did at the Wedding at Cana? I am not saying that He was disrespectful or anything of the sort as I do not believe for one moment that He would be. However, the Scripture is confusing. Here it is:

On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples. When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” Now six stone jars were standing there, for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the steward of the feast.” So they took it. When the steward of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward of the feast called the bridegroom and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first; and when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
(John 2:1-11 RSV-CE)

So why did He speak that way to her in the first sentence of His dialogue with His mother? Also, why did He say His time had not yet come? Was He speaking of His time to be crucified? If so, why would He have said this in response to them being out of wine. Or was He saying it was not yet His time to perform His first miracle? If so, why did He do it right then?

Referring to Mary as “Women” is a reference to prophesies in scripture, and NOT derogatory at all. My bible reads, “how does your concern affect me?” Jesus is asking a legitimate question, to find out what she wants Him to do. “My hour has not yet come.” God the father has not yet called Jesus to start doing miracles which will draw great attention to Him. Mary does not argue with her son, or give persuasive reasons why He should intervene. Why? I think She is being led by the Holy Spirit to make this request! Jesus must now make a decision. It would be natural for him to pray at that moment to discern the Father’s will. Mary humbly let Jesus turn to his Father to have it revealed to Him, that “his hour had come to act!” ** I believe God the Father used Mary to prompt, and reveal to Jesus that his hour had come! ** I think it is a beautiful example of how God likes to involve his children in his saving work!

 

[Kopratic]

Except that Jesus was not reprimanding his mother for doing wrong {which she wasn’t}. Had Mary been doing wrong, why would Jesus perform the miracle in the first place?
There was no need for Jesus to “come into his time.” He could have very well refused his mother’s request. {Similar to the poster above me, I also believe that Mary was being led by the Holy Spirit in making her request.} Furthermore, it can be implied that Jesus agreed based on Mary’s response to do what he says. His hour {i.e., passion} has not yet come; however, this miracle will set it in motion.

{On an unrelated note, Mary is the queen mother. Jesus comes from the Davidic line of kings. In that, the mother of the king was the queen – as evidenced many times in the old testament. Jesus is the king of heaven and earth. Mary, his mother, is thus the queen of heaven and earth.}

{Sorry for the spelling mistakes; I was typing from a phone earlier!}

 

[Holly3278]

I have trouble with the bolded language. Why do we pray and ask God to do things for us if we don’t expect some miracles to occur? Also, if Jesus had that attitude then why did he go right on and do the miracle she asked? Because he does perform miracles in response to his mother’s intercession. Mary was interceding for these people, making Jesus aware of a problem that he was able to fix. This is exactly the sort of thing that the Old Testament Queen would do (1 Kings 2: 19-20). It is the sort of thing caring women in a position to influence powerful men do. Jesus may even have been annoyed, but he complied with her request.

As others have noted, our Lord’s use of the term “woman” here isn’t necessarily disrespectful. We are taught that the word “woman” in the passage is to turn our thoughts back to Genesis 3:15 and to make us see that this woman is doing things differently than Eve. Mary’s reaction to Jesus and directions to the servants suggest to me that she understands it is up to HIM whether or not to perform the miracle yet also reflect great confidence that he will do exactly what she asks.

The part of this exchange I find most interesting is when Jesus says, “My hour has not yet come”. This is a reference to his passion. It seems like an odd time to be talking about that and so this is where my thoughts begin to get a bit wild. So the fundamental question I have is –did Mary know that is what he meant? We know from the other gospels that Jesus informed the disciples that he was going to die. It seems reasonable to believe he had told Mary that as well. In fact, it seems likely to me that God’s plans were revealed to Mary as Jesus grew up and embarked on his ministry. Because that is how God is. He gave us free will – to choose him and his plan for our life. Things unfold for us bit by bit. We may not know the whole path he has set out for us, but he does often reveal the next step. So, I have come to believe she knew exactly what he meant. If so, then what he is really saying is this: “Mother, do you understand what you are asking me to do? If I perform this miracle, it is going to start my ministry and the countdown to my death. Are you sure you want me to do this now”? It is like he is giving her a chance to stop him. She could have said: “OK. Let’s wait.” Or, “Let’s not do it at all”. But, she doesn’t. Rather, she turns to the servants and tells them: “Do whatever he tells you”. This suggests not only that she understands that what he does is up to him, but also that she believes this miracle and all of its consequences are the Father’s will and that Jesus will do exactly what she asks. Her reaction says: “Yes I know what I am asking. Yes I want you to start this”. It’s kind of like Abraham taking Isaac up onto that mountain with the intent to sacrifice him when that is what God told him to do.

Even if I am totally wrong about that, we should not overlook what this woman did for us is saying yes to the angel Gabriel. Remember that in choosing to be born of Mary, our Lord entrusted himself to her…a human. He trusted her to raise Jesus, to help him prepare for and execute his mission, and to support the apostles after his death. We have no idea why he did it that way, but it is so amazing that he came to us through her…that he performed his first miracle at her request…and that he gave her to us as our Mother on the cross. And this is why it is right for us to love her and ask for her help whenever we can. She wants to help us.

Thanks for this post! It sounds really interesting but unfortunately I am having a hard time comprehending it. Would you please condense it into shorter paragraphs that briefly explain what you are saying? I would appreciate it. I’m not very intelligent.

 

[Holly3278]

Referring to Mary as “Women” is a reference to prophesies in scripture, and NOT derogatory at all. My bible reads, “how does your concern affect me?” Jesus is asking a legitimate question, to find out what she wants Him to do. “My hour has not yet come.” God the father has not yet called Jesus to start doing miracles which will draw great attention to Him. Mary does not argue with her son, or give persuasive reasons why He should intervene. Why? I think She is being led by the Holy Spirit to make this request! Jesus must now make a decision. It would be natural for him to pray at that moment to discern the Father’s will. Mary humbly let Jesus turn to his Father to have it revealed to Him, that “his hour had come to act!” ** I believe God the Father used Mary to prompt, and reveal to Jesus that his hour had come! ** I think it is a beautiful example of how God likes to involve his children in his saving work!

That is a really interesting perspective! I like it! Thank you!

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

The key is “My hour has not yet come”, in this Jesus claims the right to choose the time for working and for displaying His Divine power. Mary did wrong in going beyond her proper bounds, asking Jesus to perform a miracle before He had come into His time to make known His works as the Savior, though He is Savior all along. Her anxiety about the inconvenience endured by others (about celebrating with more wine) and her desire to have it in some way mitigated, proceeded from humanity, and should be regarded as a virtue. This passage openly warns us to beware of being superstitiously in elevating the name of mother in the Virgin Mary. She’s not the Savior, or the queen of Heaven; she’s Jesus’ mortal mother. It’s enjoyable that how, since she is His mother, she directs the waiter to ask Jesus to do something. Such a shrewd Mom-like way to get her boy to do something!

Verbatim: The Greek words in this passage are “Τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοὶ” & aren;t as harsh as our modern interpretations might make it seem. They literally mean, “What to me and to thee?”, yet the Greek phraseology loses none of its importance as the Latin, “Quid tibi ecum?” meaning “What have you to do with me?”

Respectfully, I disagree. Mary did absolutely nothing wrong. First of all, it is never wrong to want to spare your friends humiliation and desire to help them and it is never wrong to ask God for help! It appears that you are unfamiliar with the cultural norms of the day. It wasn’t a matter of inconvenience. This would have been extremely embarrassing for the bride and groom. Hospitality was of utmost concern for these people. To not have the wine would have been considered a violation of social etiquette; it would have been an enormous faux pax. Mary was concerned for her friends and the social stigma that would have come from not having enough wine at their wedding. She turned to her Son for help. No where in the text does she ask for a miracle. She informs Him of the situation hoping for Him to solve it. We have no reason to believe she was expecting a miracle necessarily but that she was hoping He could help in some way. Jesus’ response shows that He would not have initiated this miracle on His own. Yet, she is confident He can help and says to the servers do whatever He tells you. Even though Jesus was not going to initiate this miracle, He does not hesitate in granting help.

This passage shows the power of intercession. It is NOT overstepping one’s bounds to ask God to help. The remark “My hour has not come” may well foreshadow the last Supper account. Catholics see this miracle as a precursor to the Eucharistic miracle where wine is changed by Jesus into His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

If one refuses to acknowledge Mary as Queen of Heaven it is a denial of Jesus as King. It was always customary that the mother of the King was called the Queen Mother. We see in Solomon’s court the queenly intercession of his mother. It is only in her relationship to the King that Mary is queen. And, by the way, Catholics do not believe that Mary is the Savior.

 

[Holly3278]

Respectfully, I disagree. Mary did absolutely nothing wrong. First of all, it is never wrong to want to spare your friends humiliation and desire to help them and it is never wrong to ask God for help! It appears that you are unfamiliar with the cultural norms of the day. It wasn’t a matter of inconvenience. This would have been extremely embarrassing for the bride and groom. Hospitality was of utmost concern for these people. To not have the wine would have been considered a violation of social etiquette; it would have been an enormous faux pax. Mary was concerned for her friends and the social stigma that would have come from not having enough wine at their wedding. She turned to her Son for help. No where in the text does she ask for a miracle. She informs Him of the situation hoping for Him to solve it. We have no reason to believe she was expecting a miracle necessarily but that she was hoping He could help in some way. Jesus’ response shows that He would not have initiated this miracle on His own. Yet, she is confident He can help and says to the servers do whatever He tells you. Even though Jesus was not going to initiate this miracle, He does not hesitate in granting help.

This passage shows the power of intercession. It is NOT overstepping one’s bounds to ask God to help. The remark “My hour has not come” may well foreshadow the last Supper account. Catholics see this miracle as a precursor to the Eucharistic miracle where wine is changed by Jesus into His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

If one refuses to acknowledge Mary as Queen of Heaven it is a denial of Jesus as King. It was always customary that the mother of the King was called the Queen Mother. We see in Solomon’s court the queenly intercession of his mother. It is only in her relationship to the King that Mary is queen. And, by the way, Catholics do not believe that Mary is the Savior.

This is a really nice post! I completely agree.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

Thanks for this post! It sounds really interesting but unfortunately I am having a hard time comprehending it. Would you please condense it into shorter paragraphs that briefly explain what you are saying? I would appreciate it. I’m not very intelligent.

Hi Holly. Yes I’ll try to condense and will get back to you tonight. And don’t be negative about yourself just because my ramblings aren’t making sense. God bless you.

 

[4most4christ]

Respectfully, I disagree. Mary did absolutely nothing wrong … she is confident He can help and says to the servers do whatever He tells you. Even though Jesus was not going to initiate this miracle, He does not hesitate in granting help.

Quite right - thanks for clarifying, and for being resepectful, as I also seek to be in these great discussions.

If one refuses to acknowledge Mary as Queen of Heaven it is a denial of Jesus as King.

I’m not purposing to be agrumentative, and we likely agre that Mary is the earthly vessel through which the Holy Spirit brought the Savior. She is a saint, yet not on equal standing with any member of the Holy Trinity.
She cannot be a ruler of heaven since she’s not part of the Trinity. This truth doesn’t diminish her in any way.
Her earthly “work” in being the Messiah’s earthly mother doesn’t transfer automatically to a heavenly role of sovereignty, though through faith she is an heir to the Kingdom, along with all those who confess Jesus as Savior.

Catholics do not believe that Mary is the Savior.

This is the point of confusion and bewilderment with many (I’d say 75%) with my RCC friends. I’ve been told by some, literally, “Mary is our Savior.” and “Well, yes there’s Jesus, but Mary is the mother of God, so she’s the way.” and I agree with you, this means that those who profess Mary as Savior aren’t following RCC teachings. It seems to be they have a lack of understanding that Jesus is the Savior because of initiating prayer to Mary.

 

[Kopratic]

I’m not purposing to be agrumentative, and we likely agre that Mary is the earthly vessel through which the Holy Spirit brought the Savior. She is a saint, yet not on equal standing with any member of the Holy Trinity.
She cannot be a ruler of heaven since she’s not part of the Trinity. This truth doesn’t diminish her in any way.
Her earthly “work” in being the Messiah’s earthly mother doesn’t transfer automatically to a heavenly role of sovereignty, though through faith she is an heir to the Kingdom, along with all those who confess Jesus as Savior.

It does, though. Jesus is both 100% human and God. Those two natures cannot be separated. Mary cannot be the mother of human Jesus without also being the mother of divine Jesus since they are one in the same. No, Mary is not our savior, nor is she the way to Heaven. Jesus is. However, Mary is the closest way to Jesus. In Revelation 12, we are told of a woman crowned with 12 stars. This is yet another instance of Mary being referred to as “woman.”
We’re not trying to equate her with the Trinity. She isn’t God. She’s not even close. She’s human…perfectly so. By being the mother of the king, she is the queen. As I said earlier, in the Davidic kingdom {which Jesus is a part of}, the mother of the king was the queen.

{EDIT; By the way, I think this is a great discussion!}

 

[coachkfan1]

4most4Christ said: Mary did wrong in going beyond her proper bounds

This is not Church teaching!

 

[paulineypies]

I have always loved this story and lately I have heard about it more this week than my entire life, and now it’s so funny to come across it here.

I think the point of this story, to me, is not as complicated as it may appear to be. Jesus being both human and divine, could perform miracles but was also limited to earthly trials just like we are. I think in Gods infinite wisdom he allowed this so that we would have the perfect example of how to live as humans and also in God’s image, and so that Christ could relate to anything we had gone through - which is one of the best ways God shows his love for us. I digress.

My point is that Christ, being divine, could easily turn water into wine obviously and knew his purpose and when he was to begin God’s work. However, Christ being human, also showed us that he loved and respected his earthly mother, as we all should, in humble obedience.

I don’t think Mary lived any part of her life to glorify herself or take credit to her own name. every act she did, i believe she did to glorify God and his son. I think this is an example of this, to show us how to live our lives.

Sorry I’m new to posting and I just thought i’d share that.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

4most4christ, I have a few thoughts for you.

She is a saint, yet not on equal standing with any member of the Holy Trinity.

I agree she isn’t on equal standing with the Holy Trinity. But, her role as Mother of our Lord suggests to me that she is on a different level than the saints or the rest of us.

She cannot be a ruler of heaven since she’s not part of the Trinity. This truth doesn’t diminish her in any way. Her earthly “work” in being the Messiah’s earthly mother doesn’t transfer automatically to a heavenly role of sovereignty, though through faith she is an heir to the Kingdom, along with all those who confess Jesus as Savior.

Correct, she isn’t part of the Trinity. Mary’s earthly work is over. She is now in heaven and she is still our Lord’s mother. She is analgous to the Queen mother, whose role it is to influence the King and ensure he looks after the people. I thought it might be helpful to give some references as to why Catholics believe she is the Queen of Heaven…

From Psalm 2 – a prophecy of the messiah:

I myself have installed my king
on Zion, my holy mountain.”
I will proclaim the decree of the LORD,
he said to me, “You are my son;
today I have begotten you.
Ask it of me,
and I will give you the nations as your inheritance,
and, as your possession, the ends of the earth.
**With an iron rod **you will shepherd them,
like a potter’s vessel you will shatter them.

From Revelation 12 - John’s vision of the woman.

A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, 4 with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. **She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. **Her child was caught up to God and his throne.

Notice the connection of the male child ruling the nations with an iron rod. We believe this refers to our Lord Jesus and thus by extension the woman with a crown of 12 stars is Mary who is now a Queen in heaven. The King is the ruler. But as Queen she has an important role to play in influencing the King (just as she did at Cana when they were here on earth).

This is the point of confusion and bewilderment with many (I’d say 75%) with my RCC friends. I’ve been told by some, literally, “Mary is our Savior.” and “Well, yes there’s Jesus, but Mary is the mother of God, so she’s the way.” and I agree with you, this means that those who profess Mary as Savior aren’t following RCC teachings. It seems to be they have a lack of understanding that Jesus is the Savior because of initiating prayer to Mary.

The Church does not teach that Mary is our Savior. I hope you don’t have very many Catholic friends if 75% of them are saying that they think Mary is their savior. Many Catholics do pray to Mary and it is because we believe that asking his Mother to intercede for us is the most likely way to get what we want!

And let me add that it is impossible for me to describe just how much I love our Lord Jesus Christ. I am so happy he chose to share his beautiful Mother with us.

 

[bzkoss236]

She cannot be a ruler of heaven since she’s not part of the Trinity. This truth doesn’t diminish her in any way.

I think this is where your confusion lies. Mary being Queen of Heaven doesn’t mean that she is the ruler. In ancient Jewish kingdoms, the king’s mother was the queen. She didn’t rule the kingdom in any way, but did have a position of high honor. She was often seen as more approachable than the king (authority can be intimidating), so civilians of the kingdom would likely approach the queen and ask her to bring a matter to the king.

The only time a queen was ruler is if there was no king.