The way of the Blood

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7_Sorrows said:
yes, that would be a worse case scenario! i definitey wouldn’t want Hepatitis A or worse!

i try to sit as near to the front as possible so that not too many people drink from the chalice before me.
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Good idea. lol 😃
 
Hersch's said:
The way you write about the Sacred Body and Blood in communion sounds a bit too casual and disrespectful to me.

The Host is not usually referred to as a wafer. The whole backwash comment is very unnecessary. This lack of confidence in the Holy Eucharist is disturbing. Is this attitude of yours common in your parish?

In the Byzantine-Slavonic rite where Constantine (above) worships, the Body and Blood are distributed together, the same golden spoon goes into every mouth and back into the chalice.

They have been doing this for many hundreds of years in just the same way. Millions of people take communion this way still.

Then, after everyone has been served, the priest takes that chalice back to the altar area, and while everyone else is singing the priest consumes the entire remainder, every last drop.

Please don’t think of the Holy Eucharist in terms of bugs. Thank God every day that this great gift is yours to share in.
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Please don’t nit pick. 😉 I am trying to explain so everyone understands what I meant.😃 It proven unless something contains 80% alcohol it will not kill viruses. I got my answer so please don’t act like an extremist to start a fight. We are here to share information. Your interpretation of my heart when I asked a question is completely wrong. You don’t know my heart. Lighten up.:tsktsk:
 
JillianRose said:
Please don’t nit pick. 😉 I am trying to explain so everyone understands what I meant.😃 It proven unless something contains 80% alcohol it will not kill viruses. I got my answer so please don’t act like an extremist to start a fight. We are here to share information. Your interpretation of my heart when I asked a question is completely wrong. You don’t know my heart. Lighten up.:tsktsk:
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OK then.

Sorry.
 
JillianRose said:
Does your church allow communion different then the RCC? We do not allow children to take communion until third grade. (After they make their Holy Communion.) Just wondering.
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In the early church children received confirmation and communion on the same day as baptism. So that is the order: Baptism, Confirmation and Communion.

In the eastern churches the communing of infants continues, although it was stopped for most Eastern Catholics after their churches came under the supervision of the Papacy, in recent decades (since Vatican Council II and most especially after the urging of Rome during the reign of Pope John Paul II) Eastern Catholics have been restoring their earlier practices.

Thus, children start receiving communion from the day of baptism, right after Confirmation. This is generally true of the Ruthenian Greek Catholic church and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church and the Melkite Greek Catholic church. I am not sure about the others.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQO_Xocwro5zHB71Jp6klkwagXUXQxnfkn-N0A0MfWltrvQ0xHG

Interestingly, they have also been restoring the tradition of ordaining married men in North America.
 
JillianRose said:
Does your church allow communion different then the RCC? We do not allow children to take communion until third grade. (After they make their Holy Communion.) Just wondering.
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Eastern Catholic Churches retain the ancient tradition of chrismating (confirmation) and giving Communion to infants when they are baptized. So as soon as the child is baptized, they are admitted to communion.
 
It’s the Body and Blood; Soul and Divinity of Christ, how could a virus be transmitted?
 
Hesychios said:
In the early church children received confirmation and communion on the same day as baptism. So that is the order: Baptism, Confirmation and Communion.

In the eastern churches the communing of infants continues, although it was stopped for most Eastern Catholics after their churches came under the supervision of the Papacy, in recent decades (since Vatican Council II and most especially after the urging of Rome during the reign of Pope John Paul II) Eastern Catholics have been restoring their earlier practices.

Thus, children start receiving communion from the day of baptism, right after Confirmation. This is generally true of the Ruthenian Greek Catholic church and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church and the Melkite Greek Catholic church. I am not sure about the others.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQO_Xocwro5zHB71Jp6klkwagXUXQxnfkn-N0A0MfWltrvQ0xHG

Interestingly, they have also been restoring the tradition of ordaining married men in North America.
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I live in Indiana. 6 years ago we ordained a priest who was married and has kids. I think its cool. I heard he cant be a bishop but that’s a okay with him. I think people like to go to him for marriage council also. I am dizzy with all this info about our faith. I am sure u can fill a dozen books with things I don’t know…lol
 
ConstantineTG said:
Have you heard of faith?
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?

Faith doesn’t make a sick person better. 🤷 Faith doesn’t change the fact that a celiac will get sick from the wheat present in the host, or an alcoholic from experiencing cravings from the alcohol present in the wine. So likewise faith will not prevent a virus or bacteria from moving to one sick person to another from the method of receiving communion.
 
jilly4ski said:
?

Faith doesn’t make a sick person better. 🤷 Faith doesn’t change the fact that a celiac will get sick from the wheat present in the host, or an alcoholic from experiencing cravings from the alcohol present in the wine. So likewise faith will not prevent a virus or bacteria from moving to one sick person to another from the method of receiving communion.
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👍 thank you.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Have you heard of faith?
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Constatine, it is because of Faith that we know that Eucharist can transmit contagens.

If there was a difference, than the accidental properties of bread and wine would, by defintion, be missing.

A scientist, then, could distinguish between wine that is unconsecrated, and the consecrated Eucharist, in that that germs that could normally live or be transmitted by wine would no longer do so.

The act of Faith that is reception of the the Eucharist, would be removed. Christ chose that the elements of wine and bread be transformed into His Body and Blood, but with the externals of bread and wine remaining. If what you say is true, Christ left a loop-hole in that plan, that an accidental property ( the abiity to transmit infection) changes along with the Substance.

But we know that is not true.

Likewise, it would be imprudent of us to claim that when other accidental propertiest, such as gluten, affect a celiac adversly, that it only did so because they lacked Faith.
 
jilly4ski said:
?

Faith doesn’t make a sick person better. 🤷 Faith doesn’t change the fact that a celiac will get sick from the wheat present in the host, or an alcoholic from experiencing cravings from the alcohol present in the wine. So likewise faith will not prevent a virus or bacteria from moving to one sick person to another from the method of receiving communion.
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There actually is no wheat or gluten in a consecrated Host, nor is their alcohol in the Precious Blood. However, the accidentals and effects of these elements (wheat, alcohol) remain, although no longer present. So, simply put, it seems like these substances are their, and act like they are there, but are not.
 
7_Sorrows said:
i wasn’t referring to bugs as in insects.
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You may not have been, but I think it’s a relevant aspect of this issue. If, as some have implied, God is supernaturally preventing germs from entering the wine during consecration, would he not do the same with insects, dirt, and other contaminants? Yet the Church recognizes that such contaminants do sometimes enter the sacred species, and for this reason a pall is employed to cover the chalice.
 
John_of_Patmos said:
There actually is no wheat or gluten in a consecrated Host, nor is their alcohol in the Precious Blood. However, the accidentals and effects of these elements (wheat, alcohol) remain, although no longer present. So, simply put, it seems like these substances are their, and act like they are there, but are not.
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:rolleyes: Our senses perceive there to be gluten, wheat, and alcohol to be present, just so our sense would perceive any germs to be present and we would summarily get sick from them.

Contamination happens. Which as Digitonomy mentioned a pall is used over the chalice to prevent flies and spiders, or why old hosts can mold, etc.
 
From Fr. Hardon’s dictionary:
ACCIDENT. That which is not of the essence of something. In logic a predicable accident is a predicate incidentally attributed to a subject. In metaphysical philosophy, a predicamental accident is a category of being whose nature is not to exist in itself but in another as in a subject. It is not a thing but the mode of a thing. Of the nine categories of accident, relation, quality, and quantity are the most important. (Etym. Latin accidens, a happening; something that is added; chance; nonessential quality; from accidere, to come to pass, happen, befall.)
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By this definition, I don’t believe that a virus can be transmitted by the bread or wine. God does not allow sin, disease, or any other attribute of our fallen world to coexist with Himself-- it’s why Mary had to be sinless in order to carry Jesus in her womb.
Digitonomy said:
Yet the Church recognizes that such contaminants do sometimes enter the sacred species, and for this reason a pall is employed to cover the chalice.
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A pall covers the chalice to guard against spills.
 
constantconvert said:
By this definition, I don’t believe that a virus can be transmitted by the bread or wine. God does not allow sin, disease, or any other attribute of our fallen world to coexist with Himself-- it’s why Mary had to be sinless in order to carry Jesus in her womb.

A pall covers the chalice to guard against spills.
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The pall in developed countries is a vestige of the time before air conditioning, when windows and doors were left open and flies readily entered homes and buildings. It it still used to prevent flies and other insects from getting into the chalice while the wine/Precious Blood is in the chalice.

As an altar server, I carry the chalice, purificator, paten and pall to the altar for the priest and retrieve it all back from the priest after communion. It is nothing more than a piece of cardboard or plastic covered with a cloth, embroidered with a cross. It will not prevent spills.

The pall is on the chalice when the priest is not handling it and the risk of spills is minimal. The priest would have to accidentally knock over the chalice, and trust me, the pall would not prevent a spill if that happened.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
The pall in developed countries is a vestige of the time before air conditioning, when windows and doors were left open and flies readily entered homes and buildings. It it still used to prevent flies and other insects from getting into the chalice while the wine/Precious Blood is in the chalice.

As an altar server, I carry the chalice, purificator, paten and pall to the altar for the priest and retrieve it all back from the priest after communion. It is nothing more than a piece of cardboard or plastic covered with a cloth, embroidered with a cross. It will not prevent spills.

The pall is on the chalice when the priest is not handling it and the risk of spills is minimal. The priest would have to accidentally knock over the chalice, and trust me, the pall would not prevent a spill if that happened.

-Tim-
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You’re right. I was thinking of a purificator.
 
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