The way to salvation

[Pug]

I’ve noticed that no one has defined what to be “saved” means.

Joe

Wellll, I didn’t ask the original question, so it doesn’t seem my place to answer what they meant by “saved”. But, a common choice is to be saved from our sins, or delivered from the consequences of sin (although in the OT it can mean more of a type of military deliverance). Anyway, it can have both now and future aspects. Take death. I don’t feel we are really fully delivered from that consequence until we get our bodies back at the general judgment. Creation itself won’t be fully restored until the end.

A more “now” aspect of it is being reconcilled to God. This is the sort of thing I was aiming for in my post by taking about peace between God and man. For a specific man, he becomes a new creature in Christ, and the old passes away. Here is a scripture:
2Cor:19:

God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them

 

[JOE_OBERR]

Wellll, I didn’t ask the original question, so it doesn’t seem my place to answer what they meant by “saved”. But, a common choice is to be saved from our sins, or delivered from the consequences of sin (although in the OT it can mean more of a type of military deliverance). Anyway, it can have both now and future aspects. Take death. I don’t feel we are really fully delivered from that consequence until we get our bodies back at the general judgment. Creation itself won’t be fully restored until the end.

A more “now” aspect of it is being reconcilled to God. This is the sort of thing I was aiming for in my post by taking about peace between God and man. For a specific man, he becomes a new creature in Christ, and the old passes away. Here is a scripture:

Pug,

Thanks for being brave enough to answer the question. I find that’s a good response using scripture, but my response is that if I had a comfortable life as an atheist, Buddhist, Hindu etc., and I were being evangelized why would I want to become a Christian? There is nothing in there that appears to offer to me a positive change in my life, nothing to entice me to leave my comfortable life as a Buddhist, atheist etc.

“To be saved from our sins” or “the consequences of sin” are abstractions as there is no specificity. Exactly what do these two phrases mean? What is it about sin that we have to be saved from? What are sins’ consequences? What does “reconciled to God” mean. What are the practical aspects, if any, of this reconciliation?

Also, one final question, how do you know if your definition squares with the gospel of Jesus Christ as preached by the apostles & transmitted from generation to generation by their successor bishops?

BTW, you did hit the nail on the head when you said it has both “now & future aspects”. What I am trying to get at is the “now” aspect(s), what is it?

Joe

 

[Pug]

why would I want to become a Christian? There is nothing in there that appears to offer to me a positive change in my life, nothing to entice me to leave my comfortable life
.
.
BTW, you did hit the nail on the head when you said it has both “now & future aspects”. What I am trying to get at is the “now” aspect(s), what is it?

Well, actually to do the “now” aspects, I have to talk about the past. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…

You see, God created us to live with him, to share in his divine life. This drives us, and makes us who we are. This is where we will find our satisfaction and beatitude. It is the only place. This is an amazing reality, God having this plan for us. Think about it a minute. But, a foul snake appeared, and, well, the world went awry, as most people are able to see. There is suffering, death, lack of meaning, injustice. However, God has a plan to restore all things, to bring it all back into alignment and culmination in his Son, Jesus. And, this is not just some future, pie in the sky thing…it is now.

We can share in the life of God, right now. We can come close to that beatitude for which we were made. The kingdom of God has finally come near. Actually, it did 2000 years ago, and the Church has been spreading the news about it ever since. If you hear and accept, then God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit will come and dwell in you. Furthermore, there is the Liturgy/Mass, where you see the reconcilliation of men and God right there, visible. Christ himself, in whom man and God are reconciled. God is here, with us, not far away. I’m telling you that you can meet God, have him with you, share in his life, be an adopted son and heir, isn’t that worth investigating? This is not a meditation or group hug or the French Riviera. This is your every true longing, every good passion, every bit of nature…fulfilled. It isn’t all some illusion. It is actually fulfilled, not just that you “get” how to look at it the right way, so that desire ceases or is re-classified. Desire is fulfilled for real.

I don’t see how it could be a better deal, really. No matter how comfy you are at this moment, what I am describing is better.

Full disclosure…there is a “future” aspect…

 

[Pug]

Also, one final question, how do you know if your definition squares with the gospel of Jesus Christ as preached by the apostles & transmitted from generation to generation by their successor bishops?

Well, I’m not perfect. I do my best to share the good news, but a person should look into it for themselves, by going to Christ’s Church. For example, I think these passages contain some support for what I have said in previous posts:

the name “Jesus” means “God saves”. The name expresses his identity and his mission “because he will save his people from their sins”

For us men and for our salvation, the Son of God became incarnate in the womb of the Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit. He did so to reconcile us sinners with God

The work of creation culminates in the still greaterwork of redemption, which in fact gives rise to a new creation in which everything will recover its true meaning and fulfillment.

These are cut from the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, found here.

What is it about sin that we have to be saved from? What are sins’ consequences? What does “reconciled to God” mean. What are the practical aspects, if any, of this reconciliation?

Tough questions, requiring extensive answers. I take so much for granted that it is hard for me to answer in a simple fashion. I rarely talk to someone with zero Christian background (I don’t mean you, Joe). Maybe my previous post answered these questions.

When we sin, we do something that is fundamentally harmful to ourselves and thus the whole world, as we are a part of it. This harm is a “consequence”. We have no power in ourselves to fix all the little ripples that go out from what we have done. Say I kill a man because he offends me. This causes great damage within me. I kill some of my connection to my fellow man, making me a less useful member of society, and so some of what I could have done will go undone, which will affect many people in the long run. I place my ego above where it ought to be, making me a more unbalanced person. Also, perhaps I deprive someone of her husband, and she suffers. The man is dead. I can’t bring him back, nor can I precisely return my heart to where it was before. I am broken. Also, I have created injustice. Will that ever be possible to remedy? The Christian message talks about what of this is fixable and how. I should mention that since God created both me and the man, surely God has noticed my action and it will have consequece there as well.