The western dhimmi. Do they exist? Are you one?

[Verisimilitude]

A dhimmi (Arabic: ذمي‎, collectively: أهل الذمة, ahl al-dhimma, the people of the dhimma or pact of protection, Ottoman Turkish zimmi) is a non-Muslim subject of a state governed in accordance with sharia law. The term connotes an obligation of the state to protect the individual, including the individual’s life, property, and freedom of religion and worship, in exchange for “subservience and loyalty to the Muslim order”,[1] and a poll tax known as the jizya. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi
dhimmi.com/

Do you think it reasonable or inconsequential that western media often referes to middle east cities as ‘holy’ such as the holy city of Najaf, the holy city of Karballa, the holy city of Mecca… when much less often Bethlehem, Nazareth, or Jerusalem is not identified similarly by the same media?

Do you accept the Mohammedan claim of a legitimate association with the God of Abraham simply because Islam says so?

Do you support, for whatever reason the foreign aid packages sent to Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and KSA?

Do you support the treatment of minorities and non-Muslims in Muslm lands because they have the sovereign right to do so?

Can you tell me why I should not consider the billions we send to those Muslim nations as jizya since the purpose of much of that aid is to ‘protect’ us with the promise of the Muslim states to control the ‘radicals’ within their midst?

Is the Islamification of history a myth of paranoids or is there some justification to consider what many Islamists claim as Arab/Muslim lands that should not be such as those in North Africa and the Mediteranian, or denials of religious genocide such as in Turkey in the first part of last century? Do you consider modern Israel Arab land since the time of Abraham?

Even if westerners are not under the actual dominion of Islam as the specific term indicates, what is the difference if the actions we do are the same?

I ask because some Catholics and non-Muslims defend the actions of Islam and I wonder why.

 

[Kadaveri]

People do post some really stupid things on this forum sometimes.

 

[Kadaveri]

Do you think it reasonable or inconsequential that western media often referes to middle east cities as ‘holy’ such as the holy city of Najaf, the holy city of Karballa, the holy city of Mecca… when much less often Bethlehem, Nazareth, or Jerusalem is not identified similarly by the same media?

Maybe because firstly Bethlehem and Nazareth aren’t actually considered ‘holy’ cities by anyone, and everyone in the West knows that Jerusalem is a holy city and so don’t need to be frequently reminded of it, whereas few know that Najaf and Karbala are holy cities. Besides, Jerusalem is a holy city for Muslims anyway.

Or do you think Muslims are infiltrating the Western media and brainwashing everyone?

Do you accept the Mohammedan claim of a legitimate association with the God of Abraham simply because Islam says so?

I hope this isn’t going to turn into another one of those crackpot ‘Muslims are moon-worshippers!’ fantasies… Muslims worship the God of Abraham.

Do you support, for whatever reason the foreign aid packages sent to Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and KSA?

Funnily enough Muslims regularly protest about this, as it’s just blatant hypocrisy that the USA preaches so much about democracy yet sends billions of dollars every year to support dictatorships (or rather, to protect them from the will of the people) in the Muslim world, yet hinders what democratically elected governments there are (or were).

Do you support the treatment of minorities and non-Muslims in Muslm lands because they have the sovereign right to do so?

Can you tell me why I should not consider the billions we send to those Muslim nations as jizya since the purpose of much of that aid is to ‘protect’ us with the promise of the Muslim states to control the ‘radicals’ within their midst?

Come now. The purpose of that aid is not to protect Americans (it actually makes being an American *more *dangerous), it’s to protect those regimes. And it’s not as if they actually control the radicals within their midst, they’re at war with them.

You have a seriously distorted view of the world.

Is the Islamification of history a myth of paranoids or is there some justification to consider what many Islamists claim as Arab/Muslim lands that should not be such as those in North Africa and the Mediteranian,

How exactly is North Africa not ‘Muslim lands’ when the population is 99% Muslim? It’s not exactly Christian land or Hindu land is it?

or denials of religious genocide such as in Turkey in the first part of last century?

Please don’t exploit this to further your own agenda, the Armenian genocide was not a Muslim/Christian thing.

Do you consider modern Israel Arab land since the time of Abraham?

As if Muslims actually claim this.

This whole post reeks of WWIIesque characterisations, we’re all in a war against the Muslims and if anyone doesn’t agree with this then you’re just a Chamberlain appeaser. Fortunately this epic conflict between Islam and ‘The West’ (which is itself contradictory as Islam is a Western religion) is only a fantasy imagined by ultra-reactionaries from both sides. I’d like to keep it that way.

 

[Kaninchen]

This whole post reeks of WWIIesque characterisations, we’re all in a war against the Muslims and if anyone doesn’t agree with this then you’re just a Chamberlain appeaser. Fortunately this epic conflict between Islam and ‘The West’ (which is itself contradictory as Islam is a Western religion) is only a fantasy imagined by ultra-reactionaries from both sides. I’d like to keep it that way.

Exactly.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Maybe because firstly Bethlehem and Nazareth aren’t actually considered ‘holy’ cities by anyone, and everyone in the West knows that Jerusalem is a holy city and so don’t need to be frequently reminded of it, whereas few know that Najaf and Karbala are holy cities. Besides, Jerusalem is a holy city for Muslims anyway.

Thanks for making my point in your first sentence. Why do you dismiss what I may consider holy? I doubt I am alone. What is Karbala to me or any other non-Muslim?

Or do you think Muslims are infiltrating the Western media and brainwashing everyone?

No. I think we are doing it ourselves for noble but naive reasons. It makes me sad more than anrgy.

I hope this isn’t going to turn into another one of those crackpot ‘Muslims are moon-worshippers!’ fantasies… Muslims worship the God of Abraham.

In Name only. There is a legitimate question as to what roughed up Mohammed in that cave and I believe the hadiths regarding it with one exception to a part I think was added after. There is no support it was the same that spoke to Moses and it never named itself.

Pre-Islamic pagan influences play a larger role in Islam than adopted pre-Christian ones though I think them each insignificant to other things. The Black Stone reverence and throwing pebbles at the Devil Muslim rituals to name two are very different in history and intent to Catholic Mass or the adoption of December 25 for Christmas. I accpet Muslims believe it is the same God and that is the limit of what the Church has acknowledged regarding it being the same, but also acknowledges with respect Islams diminished view of Mary. The honor does not support the ideology.

Funnily enough Muslims regularly protest about this, as it’s just blatant hypocrisy that the USA preaches so much about democracy yet sends billions of dollars every year to support dictatorships (or rather, to protect them from the will of the people) in the Muslim world, yet hinders what democratically elected governments there are (or were).

I am in near agreement with the Muslims here then though some aid is actualy humanitarian; or is intended to be. Do you support ending all US foreign aid then to those dictators like I do?

Come now. The purpose of that aid is not to protect Americans (it actually makes being an American *more *dangerous), it’s to protect those regimes. And it’s not as if they actually control the radicals within their midst, they’re at war with them.

We agree on the obvious hypocricy and what the money is being used for despite certain noble intentions given to the American people. Are you suggesting if the Pakistani people were unrestrained by the puppet strings of US foreign policy they would be more rational toward India and less supportive of militancy? A 2005 poll said 43% of Pakistanis thought democracy might work in their country. The majority either do not or are not sure. Turkey was slightly better at 48% and these are the ‘good’ ones. Who is the government protecting itself from if not the people of Pakistan or Turkey, or 57% - 52% respectively? Do you think most Egyptians would vote to honor the peace accord, recognition and border with Israel? I have my doubts. Lebanon citizens voted in Hezbollah minded folks and soon started a war they had no control over. We give them money to protect themselves too, the Lebanese. We are paying to protect ourselves/interests touting it as democracy and freedom.

You have a seriously distorted view of the world.

Either you really are 17 and maybe naive or the world is more distored than you are willing to admit. Maybe those percentages are skewed but they won’t be by much. What % of the billion Muslims think 9/11 had some justification? What % of the billion Catholics support blowing up abortion clinics? Not even close.

How exactly is North Africa not ‘Muslim lands’ when the population is 99% Muslim? It’s not exactly Christian land or Hindu land is it?

I did say Arab/Muslim land. Again, that is my point. They become synonmous and it is incorrect. The lazy/disinterested let it slide. The neferious/ignorant do it on purpose. Perception often rules. What was it before 600 AD? What’s the difference between the Morroccan of 600 AD and 2008, and the American Indian 1492 and 2008? Other than the obvious similarity of being a conqured people in the past the Berber has become Arab/Muslim but the American Indian is still an American Indian. The difference isn’t that subtle.

Please don’t exploit this to further your own agenda, the Armenian genocide was not a Muslim/Christian thing.

No. Just a Islam thing.

As if Muslims actually claim this.

I’ll try and find a link.

This whole post reeks of WWIIesque characterisations, we’re all in a war against the Muslims and if anyone doesn’t agree with this then you’re just a Chamberlain appeaser. Fortunately this epic conflict between Islam and ‘The West’ (which is itself contradictory as Islam is a Western religion) is only a fantasy imagined by ultra-reactionaries from both sides. I’d like to keep it that way.

When did Arabia become a Western influence? The worlds fastest growing religion. Islam means peace. Everything for the moon god. Islam means submission. Now Islam is a Western religion. Maybe you will read 1984 in your senior year.

 

[LilyM]

The whole of Israel is very frequently referred to as ‘the Holy LAND’, dude, and I certainly hear as many references to ‘Holy Sites’ (referring to such places as Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth) as I do to the ‘Holy Cities’ of Islam.

 

[CapaxDei]

Islam is circling the bowl. It is a time-bound distraction, nothing more.