The whale scene must be taken figuratively?

[guanophore]

You are the one who said Jonah said "no", but he in fact said "yes", didn't he? He went to Niniveh. Jonah still changed his mind after much agitation and procrastination. The whale scene must be taken figuratively. His conscience compelled him to go after all. ;)

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

I understood all your other posts in the thread from which this was taken, but I don’t understand this one. Why do you say that the whale scene must be taken figuratively? It seems quite plausible to me that it could be literal.

 

[Pete_1]

This is of the site i hope it helps

Q: Is the story of Jonah and the whale a myth?

A: Catholics are free to understand the story of Jonah and the whale as literal history or as didactic fiction. In Catholicism and Fundamentalism, Karl Keating writes:

"The Catholic Church is silent on the proper interpretation of many biblical passages, readers being allowed to accept one of several understandings. Take, as an example, Jonah’s escapade at sea, which readers often find disturbing. Ronald Knox said that ‘no defender of the sense of Scripture ever pretended, surely, that this was a natural event. If it happened, it was certainly a miracle; and not to my mind a more startling miracle than the raising of Lazarus, in which I take it Catholics are certainly bound to believe. Surely what puts one off the story of Jonah is the element of the grotesque that is present in it’ (Ronald Knox and Arnold Lunn, Difficulties, Eyre and Spottiswoode, 109).

"The most common interpretation nowadays, and one that is held by indubitably orthodox exegetes, is that the story of the prophet being swallowed and then disgorged by a ‘great fish’ is merely didactic fiction, a grand tale told to establish a religious point. Catholics are perfectly free to take this or a more literal view. . . .

"Strictly literal interpretations of what happened to Jonah actually come in two forms. One relies on the fact that people apparently have been swallowed by whales and lived to talk about it. In 1891 a seaman, James Bartley, from a ship named the Star of the East, was found missing after an eighty-foot sperm whale had been caught. He was presumed drowned. The next day, when the crew cut up the whale, Bartley was discovered alive inside. If Jonah’s three days in the whale were counted like Christ’s three days in the tomb, after the Semitic fashion—that is, parts of three distinct days, but perhaps only slightly more than twenty-four hours total—then it is possible that Jonah could have been coughed up by that great fish just as his story says. This would be a purely natural explanation of the episode.

“The other literal interpretation is that Jonah indeed underwent what the story, read as straight history, says he did but survived only because of a positive miracle, and several different sorts of miracles have been suggested, such as suspended animation on Jonah’s part or a fish with a remarkably large air supply and decidedly mild gastric juices” (Catholicism and Fundamentalism, Ignatius Press, 129–30).

 

[scottm]

There’s neither a rational nor an objective reason for denying that the story is true history.

To say that it can’t be history is to say that God cannot do miracles. Now we have a God who cannot rescue his people from Egyptian slavery – making the 1st Commandment suspect. (“I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the house of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me.”) Now we have a God who cannot heal the sick, contrary to stories in both the OT and the NT. Now we have a God who cannot raise the dead, also contrary to stories in both the OT and the NT. With those three powers gone we have now a God who does not control nature and therefore did not create the world.

In short, our God did not create the world, because our God cannot do things like that, because our God cannot do miracles.

And forget Easter – it’s total balony now, because come on, if our God cannot preserve Jonah in a whale’s tummy there is no possible way he ever ever ever could raise Jesus from the dead, ever. Forget it. Easter never happened.

Chew on that.

 

[dessert]

I am reading a book on this, the “prepared” fish was Jonah’s only way of salvation.

God went to a lot of bother to save one man, Jonah, who was very rebellioous but had not been to a point of really needing God.

When Jonah entered this God-planned way of salvation, as he was swallowed by the great fish, it seemed to the onlookers to be the end of him. So also think the friends of this world when they witness one of their companions entering into the life of salvation.
We do not know how many years the fish was in the preparationory stage before it was called upon to perform this mission. It is enough for us to know that this act of God revealed His infinte love for a disobedient man. God is indeed longsuffering.
God so loved Jonah that He prepared a great fish; but God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son … (John 3; 16)

Paul’s companions became so irritated at him when he became a Christian that they even made plans to kill him.

As Noah prepared a great boat i believe God prepared a great fish so I think it can be a literally true story.

Here is a review;
The end of chapter one closes with God creating a great fish to save Jonah, God’s love
Chapter 2 closes by again reveling the Lord’s love when Jonah was delivered from the fish upon dry land
Chap 3 closes by revealing the Lord’s love when He spared the people of Nineveh
Chap 4 closes the book with a further revelation of the Lord’s infinite love when He spared Nineveh for the sake of the helpless children and cattle.
If we were to characteize the Lord from our study of Him in this book, we could well do so in the words of I John 4; 8 “God is love.”
Dessert

 

[brian231]

This is pretty simple.

Matt 12:40-For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus confirms the story as literal. You either believe in the Lord Jesus Christ or you don’t. Do you believe what your Bible says? I do.

 

[scottm]

:extrahappy:I love you man!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think that there are a couple of confirmed instances in the last couple of centuries of men being swallowed by whales and recovered alive.

 

[Steve40]

There actually is a historic case of a sailor having spent a few days in the belly of a whale, was cut out be whalers and survived.

 

[Steve40]

Catholic guidance on the study of Sacred Scripture is unless by necessity you are forced to depart from it hold to the literal and obvious meaning in Sacred Scripture. Anything less than this opens the door wide to modernist heresey. This is also why we should not believe in evolution until it is proven.

 

[Leopard]

There actually is a historic case of a sailor having spent a few days in the belly of a whale, was cut out be whalers and survived.

Source please?

 

[lak611]

This is pretty simple.

Matt 12:40-For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus confirms the story as literal. You either believe in the Lord Jesus Christ or you don’t. Do you believe what your Bible says? I do.

There is no evidence that Jonah was not actually in the belly of the whale for 3 days. Jesus referred to the “sign of Jonah”. If it was not a real event, Jesus would not have mentioned it.

 

[Steve40]

Source please?

I’d have to look for it so I’ll leave that to you. If you don’t care to look I don’t care either.

 

[brian231]

Source please?

This is a very telling and troubling post and indicates you are sliding on a very slippery slope. You obviously don’t believe. I’m concerned as to whether you are saved or not. I’m guessing you’ve been exposed to some sort of atheist, humanist, agnostic, secular, anti-christian, etc. type of literature or website. I ask you this: If you won’t believe Jesus than who WILL you believe. No link is going to convince you. You are essentially calling Jesus a liar and saying your Bible is filled with errors. Your Bible is no good to you if you doubt it. Once you doubt one part of it, you’ll have to doubt ALL of it then. Where do you draw the line on what to believe and what not to? Why would you even believe Jesus died for your sins?

I understand it may be tough to believe the story and miracles in general but if you’ll remember a few years back, a tsunami wiped out New Orleans. Few people would’ve believed that something like that could’ve ever happened and yet it did. So strange things do happen.

Please forgive my bluntness but I believe in telling people what they NEED to hear, not what they WANT to hear.

 

[Leopard]

This is a very telling and troubling post and indicates you are sliding on a very slippery slope. You obviously don’t believe. I’m concerned as to whether you are saved or not. I’m guessing you’ve been exposed to some sort of atheist, humanist, agnostic, secular, anti-christian, etc. type of literature or website. I ask you this: If you won’t believe Jesus than who WILL you believe. No link is going to convince you. You are essentially calling Jesus a liar and saying your Bible is filled with errors. Your Bible is no good to you if you doubt it. Once you doubt one part of it, you’ll have to doubt ALL of it then. Where do you draw the line on what to believe and what not to? Why would you even believe Jesus died for your sins?

I understand it may be tough to believe the story and miracles in general but if you’ll remember a few years back, a tsunami wiped out New Orleans. Few people would’ve believed that something like that could’ve ever happened and yet it did. So strange things do happen.

Please forgive my bluntness but I believe in telling people what they NEED to hear, not what they WANT to hear.

Wow.

All this because I asked someone for the source of his assertion that there actually is a historic case of a sailor having spent a few days in the belly of a whale, was cut out by whalers and survived.

Whoda thunk?

 

[Orogeny]

I understand it may be tough to believe the story and miracles in general but if you’ll remember a few years back, a tsunami wiped out New Orleans. Few people would’ve believed that something like that could’ve ever happened and yet it did. So strange things do happen.

At least try being accurate with your examples. A hurricane hit New Orleans. A tsunami hit the Indian Ocean basin.

More than a few people believed that what happened in New Orleans could and would happen. It wasn’t a surprise.

Those are natural things that happen relatively frequently. A man being swallowed by a fish or whale and surviving for 3 days to be rescued is not a common occurrence. Thus, one should expect scepticism when that claim is made.

Pease forgive my bluntness but I believe in telling people what they NEED to hear, not what they WANT to hear.

Since when do YOU get to decide what people NEED to hear? Your bluntness is uncharitable. Leopard only asked for a link to the claim made. YOU assumed that he/she was questioning the Bible. You need to check that attitude at the door.

Peace

Tim

 

[Hellisreal]

I was confused by the “must” in the OP. How many things really must we take figuratively in the bible?

 

[Fidelis]

Source please?

Post #2 above, which quotes Karl Keating’s book?

In 1891 a seaman, James Bartley, from a ship named the Star of the East, was found missing after an eighty-foot sperm whale had been caught. He was presumed drowned. The next day, when the crew cut up the whale, Bartley was discovered alive inside.

 

[awalt]

It’s interesting to read this thread, starting with :

Catholics are free to understand the story of Jonah and the whale as literal history or as didactic fiction.

Then the rest of the thread proceeds into quite a few very un-Christian-like posts of people insisting that their preferred belief is true and anyone disagreeing must not believe in Jesus.

This is a great example of the behavior that shows a bad example by Catholics. Remember the phrase attributed to St. Francis: “Preach the Gospel and use words if necessary”.

Why the need for such an ugly debate?

 

[Leopard]

Post #2 above, which quotes Karl Keating’s book?

In 1891 a seaman, James Bartley, from a ship named the Star of the East, was found missing after an eighty-foot sperm whale had been caught. He was presumed drowned. The next day, when the crew cut up the whale, Bartley was discovered alive inside.

Thank you, I missed that. But that isn’t what the previous poster had claimed:

Steve40:

There actually is a historic case of a sailor having spent a few days in the belly of a whale, was cut out be whalers and survived.

The cited report is not of a sailor surviving “a few days” in the belly of a whale (implied to be live and swimming, as per the fish in the Jonah story); it is a report of a sailor who spent one day or less (he was found “the next day”, which might mean as little as several hours) in a dead whale, which probably expired shortly after swallowing him (the whale had already been caught when the man was reported missing and presumed drowned).

Digestive processes in the whale would have ceased. As whale bodies are very bouyant, the carcass would have been floating if it was still in the water, or it may have already been taken aboard the whaler. Air may have been accessable through the whale’s natural orifices, partial disassembly of the carcass prior to the man’s discovery may have provided still more openings for air. This story really has more in common with that of a miner caught in a cave-in, in which cases miners sometimes have been known to survive extended periods of time burried in tight spaces with limited air and no food or water, than it does with the story of Jonah.

 

[juliamajor]

First thing- Bible is not a history book but a book of faith- to say the books of the bible are true or untrue because of historicity is folly.That’s not what they are about-besides jonah is not classified as one of the historical books of the OT but as prophecy.What prophets are concerned with surely is not history! They were too busy speaking for God and being persecuted. Jonah reads very much like a satire - the prophet is not an heroic figure -he reluctantly does what God wants him to and is ticked off when God is merciful! The author makes Jonah a lesser figure while God succeeds in spite of his prophet.