The Woman and the Dragon

[elts1956]

apocalipsis.org/t12-woman-dragon.htm

The woman and the dragon (12:1)
12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

There are several interpretations of this scripture reading. None of them clear nor certain.

This is my theory. The 1/3 of the stars swept from the sky by the dragon are those Bishops who have stood against the life and death issues we are fighting in our secular society. Why would the devil cast out his followers from the sky? Wouldn’t he leave them in place to do his dirty work through their lack of standing against the culture of death?

During the past election approximately 1/3 of our Bishops and clergy came out against the issue of abortion that was so strongly promulgated and supported by our present administration. It was the greatest issue of our time. 2/3 of the hierarchy stood by and said nothing. 2/3 have continued to allow receiving of the Holy Eucharist to Catholic public figures who support abortion. The 1/3 of focused, strong willed and true teachers of the beliefs fof the Catholic Church are usually shouted down during meetings by the majority of the other Bishops of the USCCB when elections for heads of groups dealing with especially volatile issues such as abortion take place.

Pray for our strong Bishops and Cardinals such as Chaput, Tobin, Burke, Finn, Martino (suddenly retired) and other faithful clergy who have had the courage to stand for what they believe and teach. We need more of them.

Many laity and clergy will not follow these great me because having already been sucked into secularism and relativism, political correctness and denial of the truths taught by those clergy who have the backbone to state these truths and not back down.

What say you?

 

[coracobb]

apocalipsis.org/t12-woman-dragon.htm

The woman and the dragon (12:1)
12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

There are several interpretations of this scripture reading. None of them clear nor certain.

This is my theory. The 1/3 of the stars swept from the sky by the dragon are those Bishops who have stood against the life and death issues we are fighting in our secular society. Why would the devil cast out his followers from the sky? Wouldn’t he leave them in place to do his dirty work through their lack of standing against the culture of death?

During the past election approximately 1/3 of our Bishops and clergy came out against the issue of abortion that was so strongly promulgated and supported by our present administration. It was the greatest issue of our time. 2/3 of the hierarchy stood by and said nothing. 2/3 have continued to allow receiving of the Holy Eucharist to Catholic public figures who support abortion. The 1/3 of focused, strong willed and true teachers of the beliefs fof the Catholic Church are usually shouted down during meetings by the majority of the other Bishops of the USCCB when elections for heads of groups dealing with especially volatile issues such as abortion take place.

Pray for our strong Bishops and Cardinals such as Chaput, Tobin, Burke, Finn, Martino (suddenly retired) and other faithful clergy who have had the courage to stand for what they believe and teach. We need more of them.

Many laity and clergy will not follow these great me because having already been sucked into secularism and relativism, political correctness and denial of the truths taught by those clergy who have the backbone to state these truths and not back down.

What say you?

elts,

I say you are right on with with your concerns and fears.

Cora

 

[colmywaykurtz]

apocalipsis.org/t12-woman-dragon.htm

The woman and the dragon (12:1)
12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

There are several interpretations of this scripture reading. None of them clear nor certain.

This is my theory. The 1/3 of the stars swept from the sky by the dragon are those Bishops who have stood against the life and death issues we are fighting in our secular society. Why would the devil cast out his followers from the sky? Wouldn’t he leave them in place to do his dirty work through their lack of standing against the culture of death?

During the past election approximately 1/3 of our Bishops and clergy came out against the issue of abortion that was so strongly promulgated and supported by our present administration. It was the greatest issue of our time. 2/3 of the hierarchy stood by and said nothing. 2/3 have continued to allow receiving of the Holy Eucharist to Catholic public figures who support abortion. The 1/3 of focused, strong willed and true teachers of the beliefs fof the Catholic Church are usually shouted down during meetings by the majority of the other Bishops of the USCCB when elections for heads of groups dealing with especially volatile issues such as abortion take place.

Pray for our strong Bishops and Cardinals such as Chaput, Tobin, Burke, Finn, Martino (suddenly retired) and other faithful clergy who have had the courage to stand for what they believe and teach. We need more of them.

Many laity and clergy will not follow these great me because having already been sucked into secularism and relativism, political correctness and denial of the truths taught by those clergy who have the backbone to state these truths and not back down.

What say you?

We are right to be concerned that more bishops are not supporting more efficacious action to lead people away from abortion as a choice.

That’s not proof that the above-listed interpretation of Rev 12 is correct, however.

I tend to agree with the interpretation elucidated by Catholic theologian Rev. Herman Bernard Kramer in his book The Book of Destiny. His contention was that the woman represents the Church, seeing that her radiance comes from her garments (a “borrowed” radiance, as it were) rather than from herself.

Her travail in childbirth signifies the Church’s sufferings, and the child is one specific person who is coming in our future, one who is not Christ, despite the inevitable comparisons to Psalms 2:9. After all, Christ was not killed at his birth, nor did he ascend into heaven immediately after death. It is apparent that THIS child is rather the Vicar of Christ–a Pope who will “rule the nations with a rod of iron” in the sense of enforcing the Law by separating the good from the wicked, as prefigured in Psalms 2:9. All the bishops and clerics and laity who submit to the blood-red dragon’s tyrannical blackmail/bribery (the stars swept from Heaven by the dragon’s wiles {his “tail”} ) will be out, and only the martyrs left.

The dragon represents Satan, of course. Satan’s forcible ejection from the Church by the new Vicar of Christ is the casting out of the dragon from “heaven,” and his fall to “earth” is the defeat of Satan’s attempts to subvert the Church from within, with a subsequent resort to external attack.

The dragon who threatens the Church has seven heads which represent the seven deadly sins. He also has ten horns which represent the ten institutions of the world inimical to the kingdom of Christ–Judaism, Paganism, Heresy, Schism, Mohammedanism, Atheism, Rationalism, Agnosticism, Indifferentism, and Communism.

The eagle who rescues the woman (the Church) represents a nation of unbelievers (“the wilderness”), but not one of apostates, who will give refuge to the cardinals (who hold power in the Church after the slaying of Christ’s Vicar) after the European tyrants cast them from Italy. Kramer goes no further with speculation, but I personally think this nation may be the United States.

It’s something to think about.

 

[garysibio]

apocalipsis.org/t12-woman-dragon.htm

The woman and the dragon (12:1)
12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

There are several interpretations of this scripture reading. None of them clear nor certain.

This is my theory. The 1/3 of the stars swept from the sky by the dragon are those Bishops who have stood against the life and death issues we are fighting in our secular society. Why would the devil cast out his followers from the sky? Wouldn’t he leave them in place to do his dirty work through their lack of standing against the culture of death?

During the past election approximately 1/3 of our Bishops and clergy came out against the issue of abortion that was so strongly promulgated and supported by our present administration. It was the greatest issue of our time. 2/3 of the hierarchy stood by and said nothing. 2/3 have continued to allow receiving of the Holy Eucharist to Catholic public figures who support abortion. The 1/3 of focused, strong willed and true teachers of the beliefs fof the Catholic Church are usually shouted down during meetings by the majority of the other Bishops of the USCCB when elections for heads of groups dealing with especially volatile issues such as abortion take place.

Pray for our strong Bishops and Cardinals such as Chaput, Tobin, Burke, Finn, Martino (suddenly retired) and other faithful clergy who have had the courage to stand for what they believe and teach. We need more of them.

Many laity and clergy will not follow these great me because having already been sucked into secularism and relativism, political correctness and denial of the truths taught by those clergy who have the backbone to state these truths and not back down.

What say you?

You’re making the same mistake that a lot of the so-called prophecy teachers on TV make. You are taking a current event and trying to fit it into the Book of Revelation. I’m not saying that there are no prophecies of future event in Scripture, only that your approach is the opposite of what it should be.

I’m not saying my view is the absolute truth but i have always been taught that the stars referred to angels. When Satan fell, he took a third of the angels with him.

The Bible does predict an apostasy before Jesus returns and the CCC (#675) acknowledges this. I think what you are talking about is characteristic of this.

 

[elts1956]

You’re making the same mistake that a lot of the so-called prophecy teachers on TV make. You are taking a current event and trying to fit it into the Book of Revelation. I’m not saying that there are no prophecies of future event in Scripture, only that your approach is the opposite of what it should be.

I’m not saying my view is the absolute truth but i have always been taught that the stars referred to angels. When Satan fell, he took a third of the angels with him.

The Bible does predict an apostasy before Jesus returns and the CCC (#675) acknowledges this. I think what you are talking about is characteristic of this.

It was just a thought. But then any prophecy will become a currant event eventually, so to speak, right? As far as I can remember, I was never taught what this event in Revelation might mean. I don’t know if anyone knows for sure???

 

[elts1956]

You’re making the same mistake that a lot of the so-called prophecy teachers on TV make. You are taking a current event and trying to fit it into the Book of Revelation. I’m not saying that there are no prophecies of future event in Scripture, only that your approach is the opposite of what it should be.

I’m not saying my view is the absolute truth but i have always been taught that the stars referred to angels. When Satan fell, he took a third of the angels with him.

The Bible does predict an apostasy before Jesus returns and the CCC (#675) acknowledges this. I think what you are talking about is characteristic of this.

We are right to be concerned that more bishops are not supporting more efficacious action to lead people away from abortion as a choice.

That’s not proof that the above-listed interpretation of Rev 12 is correct, however.

I tend to agree with the interpretation elucidated by Catholic theologian Rev. Herman Bernard Kramer in his book The Book of Destiny. His contention was that the woman represents the Church, seeing that her radiance comes from her garments (a “borrowed” radiance, as it were) rather than from herself.

Her travail in childbirth signifies the Church’s sufferings, and the child is one specific person who is coming in our future, one who is not Christ, despite the inevitable comparisons to Psalms 2:9. After all, Christ was not killed at his birth, nor did he ascend into heaven immediately after death. It is apparent that THIS child is rather the Vicar of Christ–a Pope who will “rule the nations with a rod of iron” in the sense of enforcing the Law by separating the good from the wicked, as prefigured in Psalms 2:9. All the bishops and clerics and laity who submit to the blood-red dragon’s tyrannical blackmail/bribery (the stars swept from Heaven by the dragon’s wiles {his “tail”} ) will be out, and only the martyrs left.

The dragon represents Satan, of course. Satan’s forcible ejection from the Church by the new Vicar of Christ is the casting out of the dragon from “heaven,” and his fall to “earth” is the defeat of Satan’s attempts to subvert the Church from within, with a subsequent resort to external attack.

The dragon who threatens the Church has seven heads which represent the seven deadly sins. He also has ten horns which represent the ten institutions of the world inimical to the kingdom of Christ–Judaism, Paganism, Heresy, Schism, Mohammedanism, Atheism, Rationalism, Agnosticism, Indifferentism, and Communism.

The eagle who rescues the woman (the Church) represents a nation of unbelievers (“the wilderness”), but not one of apostates, who will give refuge to the cardinals (who hold power in the Church after the slaying of Christ’s Vicar) after the European tyrants cast them from Italy. Kramer goes no further with speculation, but I personally think this nation may be the United States.

It’s something to think about.

I was thinking too, that the woman fleeing into the desert represented the Church. That in the end times the Church and her followers will be persecuted and have to hide. Just another thought. I am not trying to reinvent interpretation here, just sharing my thoughts.

 

[garysibio]

I was thinking too, that the woman fleeing into the desert represented the Church. That in the end times the Church and her followers will be persecuted and have to hide. Just another thought. I am not trying to reinvent interpretation here, just sharing my thoughts.

I would tend to agree with you here. The Church is being represented by Mary, the Mother of the Church.

 

[garysibio]

It was just a thought. But then any prophecy will become a currant event eventually, so to speak, right? As far as I can remember, I was never taught what this event in Revelation might mean. I don’t know if anyone knows for sure???

You are correct. All unfulfilled prophecy will eventually become a current event. What I was talking about was to pick something out of the news and try to say that this is the fulfillment of a particular prophecy. Hal Lindsey is a good example of that. He used to say that the 10-horned beast was the European Common Market, now the EU. He said it would never have more than ten member states, a number it has long since passed. Eventually whatever the beast is will be known but it’s not the EU.

 

[peary]

apocalipsis.org/t12-woman-dragon.htm

The woman and the dragon (12:1)
12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

There are several interpretations of this scripture reading. None of them clear nor certain.

The very earliest of Christians who heard the Book of Revelation understood the woman to be Mary, the Mother of Jesus, and that the male child whom she gave birth was Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ. The dragon was understood to be the Devil. When the passage states “her child was snatched up to God and to his throne” it is in reference to the Resurrection and Ascension. Afterwards, according to tradition, Mary left Jerusalem and stayed with John the Apostle at Ephesus. If the 1,260 days can be reduced to a period of 3-4 years, then this means that she herself passed on to eternal life in this period of time. If Mary was abou 16 years old when she had Jesus, when he died she would have been around 49 years old. If she lived another 3-to-4 years, that would bring her age to around 52-to-53 years of age prior to her Assumption. This would actually be the ‘norm’ for the time as far as lifespan.

A rule of thumb in understanding Scripture is to take it at face value. Scripture says what it says. In this case, it says what it says and shouldn’t be ‘interpreted’ in any other way.

 

[diggerdomer]

There are several interpretations of this scripture reading. None of them clear nor certain.

That would seem entirely appropriate for the genre of apocalyptic literature.

 

[jofo817]

Rev 12

I have always understood this to be about the dragon (satan) and how he lead 1/3 of the Angels in Heaven away from GOD (similar to how he also operates in earth). And the ongoing battle between GOOD and EVIL. The Woman can be symbolic of the Holy Mother Mary (that gave birth to the Male Child Jesus Christ) and the devils efforts to oppose Gods Plans for Mankind.

Some Angels are ELECT and some Angels are EVIL (align with satan) Obviously Michael is one of the good (Elect) Angels and battles against the devil and his angels!!

Thank GOD for Michael and the Elect Angels that fight against the Evil ones!!!

 

[santobauro]

apocalipsis.org/t12-woman-dragon.htm

The woman and the dragon (12:1)
12:1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

There are several interpretations of this scripture reading. None of them clear nor certain.

This is my theory. The 1/3 of the stars swept from the sky by the dragon are those Bishops who have stood against the life and death issues we are fighting in our secular society. Why would the devil cast out his followers from the sky? Wouldn’t he leave them in place to do his dirty work through their lack of standing against the culture of death?

During the past election approximately 1/3 of our Bishops and clergy came out against the issue of abortion that was so strongly promulgated and supported by our present administration. It was the greatest issue of our time. 2/3 of the hierarchy stood by and said nothing. 2/3 have continued to allow receiving of the Holy Eucharist to Catholic public figures who support abortion. The 1/3 of focused, strong willed and true teachers of the beliefs fof the Catholic Church are usually shouted down during meetings by the majority of the other Bishops of the USCCB when elections for heads of groups dealing with especially volatile issues such as abortion take place.

Pray for our strong Bishops and Cardinals such as Chaput, Tobin, Burke, Finn, Martino (suddenly retired) and other faithful clergy who have had the courage to stand for what they believe and teach. We need more of them.

Many laity and clergy will not follow these great me because having already been sucked into secularism and relativism, political correctness and denial of the truths taught by those clergy who have the backbone to state these truths and not back down.

What say you?

Most of the time when I’m teaching about Mary I used the word WOMAN. I started from the book of Genesis 3:15 then some quotes from other books and finish it in this book, Revelation. I believe and understand that the book of Revelation is about Jesus and His Church. This particular version, you are using, can be used for Mary in order to maintain the war between a WOMAN (and her Child) from the beginning and will be continued.

I don’t see any connection to the present situation around the world, especially the abortion. Things that are happened are only the lackness of humanity to see the importance of life which is the free gift of God.

God bless
Arau ni Babetito

 

[peary]

Most of the time when I’m teaching about Mary I used the word WOMAN. I started from the book of Genesis 3:15 then some quotes from other books and finish it in this book, Revelation. I believe and understand that the book of Revelation is about Jesus and His Church. This particular version, you are using, can be used for Mary in order to maintain the war between a WOMAN (and her Child) from the beginning and will be continued.

I don’t see any connection to the present situation around the world, especially the abortion. Things that are happened are only the lackness of humanity to see the importance of life which is the free gift of God.

God bless
Arau ni Babetito

Since abortion became the norm for birth control around the world for the past forty or so years, exponentially, we have already murdered almost 2 BILLION people in that period of time. I call that a tribulation, if anything.

 

[boeck249]

Remember the battle occurred prior to the birth of Jesus. The dragon knew that once the child was born that he would be defeated. Jesus was most vulnerable when he was in Marys womb. that’s why the battle occurred when Mary was with child. The irony is despite 2000 years of advancement we are still most vulnerable when we are still in the womb. Image if Mary was pro choice.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

Remember the battle occurred prior to the birth of Jesus. The dragon knew that once the child was born that he would be defeated. Jesus was most vulnerable when he was in Marys womb. that’s why the battle occurred when Mary was with child. The irony is despite 2000 years of advancement we are still most vulnerable when we are still in the womb. Image if Mary was pro choice.

The rest of the book is, by the consensus of nearly all Christians, a prophetic book about the future. Why would this part be about the past instead of the future? l think I will stick with the interpretation that Rev 12’s description of the dragon’s fall is about the expulsion of Satan from the Church in the future.