The word "Mormon" is a turn off.

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ronald_g_w said:
Are you telling me that revelations from God have stopped and the last one was given with the original Apostles.
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All traditional Christians believe that public revelation ended with the death of the Apostle John (about 100 A.D.). This means that there can be no new doctrines, no new Scriptures, no new prophets and no new prophicies after the close of the apostolic age. (Check out Jude 3 or Hebrews 1:1-2.) And no Church Father ever taught that new doctrines or inspired Revelations from God were possible after the death of the last Apostle. Jesus is the fulfillment of all prophecy. What more do you need?
 
AMDGtoo said:
All traditional Christians believe that public revelation ended with the death of the Apostle John (about 100 A.D.). This means that there can be no new doctrines, no new Scriptures, no new prophets and no new prophicies after the close of the apostolic age. (Check out Jude 3 or Hebrews 1:1-2.) And no Church Father ever taught that new doctrines or inspired Revelations from God were possible after the death of the last Apostle. Jesus is the fulfillment of all prophecy. What more do you need?
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Then my I be so bold as to ask how did the Catholic definition of The Trinity come about without revelation some 325 and some years after the death of the Apostles, because on June 19, 325, the first Ecumenical Council was called to solve the most important and fundamental questions then pressing against the Church - Who is God, as well as other points of doctrine? Then if what you are saying to me is true, then the Catholics interpretation of who is God is from man ?
 
ronald_g_w said:
Then my I be so bold as to ask how did the Catholic definition of The Trinity come about without revelation some 325 and some years after the death of the Apostles, because on June 19, 325, the first Ecumenical Council was called to solve the most important and fundamental questions then pressing against the Church - Who is God, as well as other points of doctrine? Then if what you are saying to me is true, then the Catholics interpretation of who is God is from man ?
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Let me ask a question here. Are you challenging that historical facts and revelations of Christ and His apostles, the very same ones Mormonism claims are a part of its revelation? Seems to me like you are tinkling in your own drinking water here.

The information was all revealed in the time of Jesus as professed by the apostles and as recorded in the bible. The original apostles thought Christ’s return was imminent and so did not originally contemplate deeply on the integrative meaning of some of the truths that were present in scripture. Jesus himself prophesied things that would not come true for some time after him - in particular the 2nd coming. But the truth was revealed and complete in his time. After it became obvious that Christ was not coming in the apostle’s time the Church started developing its theology and christology to comprehend the deeper meanings behind what Christ revealed. This is just using all the information present to discern its deeper meaning. Nothing was added or taken away from the revealed word - it was just heard with greater clarity with the help of the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus.

James
 
Ronald, Non-Catholic Christians frequently misunderstand what our Councils did, thinking that a particular dogma or doctrine only came into being at a certain Council.

Councils did not *create *dogma. When heresies arose, Councils formally defined the dogma that had been there all along.

While the word, Trinity, does not occur in the Bible, it was defined by Jesus Himself (emphasis mine): “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Matt 28:18-20 (RSV)

HTH,

Ruthie
 
Ruthie said:
Ronald, Non-Catholic Christians frequently misunderstand what our Councils did, thinking that a particular dogma or doctrine only came into being at a certain Council.

Councils did not *create *dogma. When heresies arose, Councils formally defined the dogma that had been there all along.

While the word, Trinity, does not occur in the Bible, it was defined by Jesus Himself (emphasis mine): “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Matt 28:18-20 (RSV)

HTH,

Ruthie
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If this was in place why then was the council called to resolve the controversy between Alexander and Aius concerning the nature of Christ and his relationship to the Godhead. A debate going on for over 300 years. If the apostles understood things how had the church lost sight so quickly
 
Ruthie said:
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Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Matt 28:18-20 (RSV)

Ruthie

Mormons do this when they baptize their young or converts.
 
ronald_g_w said:
If this was in place why then was the council called to resolve the controversy between Alexander and Aius concerning the nature of Christ and his relationship to the Godhead. A debate going on for over 300 years. If the apostles understood things how had the church lost sight so quickly
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When did the debate start?
When did the debate end?
Who started the debate?
 
why_me said:
Mormons do this when they baptize their young or converts.
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They also do it when they baptise their dead through a stand in substitute proxy to save those who have already died. 😃

And note that Mormons while using words that sound like the trinitarian formula cleverly apply different belief to the words to obscure the fact that they are in fact not Christians to mislead new converts.

Mormons hold that there is no real Trinity, no original sin, that Christ did not institute baptism

Summing up, Catholics say: The Baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differ essentially, both for what concerns faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name Baptism is conferred, and for what concerns the relationship to Christ who instituted it. As a result of all this, it is understood that the Catholic Church has to consider invalid, that is to say, cannot consider true Baptism, the rite given that name by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints.

Sorry saying one thing and believing another is just a deception to make it possible to dupe Christians who subscribe to a false plurality doctrine of the "invisible church"to convert to Mormonism. This is nothing more than false advertising and mass marketing through deceptive practices.

James
 
Stephen168 said:
When did the debate start?
When did the debate end?
Who started the debate?
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McGrath, Alister E. Christian Theology, p 250
Ferguson, Sinclair B. The New Dictionary of Theology

The Council of Nicaea (325) granted that Christ was Divine and of one substance with the Father. The Council of Constantinople (381) reaffirmed Nicaea and defended the existence of the Holy Spirit as a distinct and equal divine person (Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed). The Council of Ephesus (431) concluded that the divinity and humanity of Christ were not separated. The Council of Chalcedon (451) determined that Christ is one person and has two natures. As far as I understand this council concluded having unfinished business and questions about the Trinity. What is the definition of a “person”? Could a Tri-personal"God really be personal at all?
 
When did the debate start?
When did the debate end?
Who started the debate?
ronald_g_w said:
McGrath, Alister E. Christian Theology, p 250
Ferguson, Sinclair B. The New Dictionary of Theology

The Council of Nicaea (325) granted that Christ was Divine and of one substance with the Father. The Council of Constantinople (381) reaffirmed Nicaea and defended the existence of the Holy Spirit as a distinct and equal divine person (Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed). The Council of Ephesus (431) concluded that the divinity and humanity of Christ were not separated. The Council of Chalcedon (451) determined that Christ is one person and has two natures. As far as I understand this council concluded having unfinished business and questions about the Trinity. What is the definition of a “person”? Could a Tri-personal"God really be personal at all?
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That was a whole lot of not answering the questions.
Why couldn’t you answer the questions?
 
ronald_g_w said:
Read between the lines
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I went back and selected the whole text block to see if it would reveal any hidden text cleverly changed to a color that matched the background color - but saw nothing.

You aren’t going to say we need to have magical gold plates or a magic decoder ring to see the stuff hiding in the white space of the sans serif are you? 😃

James
 
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