The world of CAF vs. the world of Catholics in the pews

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This morning I went to Mass, which was almost full, and the new African priest was saying it and during his homily about Mary, which was twice as long as the US priests’ homilies, he decided to quiz the people in church about some basic Catholic Mary stuff. Questions like “When is the Annunciation?” “What did Mary say to the angel, what were her exact words?” “When do we say the Angelus?” “What are the five Joyful Mysteries?”

Some people knew the answers, including the guy sitting right in front of me, and I got almost all of them except I said “Thy will” instead of “Thy word” when quoting what Mary said to the Angel, because I was kind of not awake yet with no breakfast.

At the end of the priest’s talk he said anyone who didn’t know the five Joyful Mysteries should go to Confession and should also learn them. The guy in front of me turned around and said, “I guess we’re both off the hook.” I said I already went to Confession anyway.

I don’t really understand how Catholics who are motivated enough to fill a church for 9 am Mass could possibly not know the 5 Joyful Mysteries or most of the other stuff? I understand that many people might not be thinking of the Annunciation being 9 months before Christmas and that not everyone says the Angelus. I know everybody on CAF who isn’t newly converted could rattle off all this stuff and more. Also I’m sure if it was a TLM, everybody would know the answers.
 
There probably is a percentage of folks that may know the answers to his questions, but freeze up when called on in front of a large group like that. Stage fright.
Just a thought.
 
I’m going to guess that the majority who didn’t know the answers will also not see the necessity of regular confession.
 
And that’s probably a “good” thing (sarcasm) because if everybody in that church showed up at confession time, 90 percent of them wouldn’t make it in during the allotted hour even though this church regularly has 2 or 3 priests hearing confessions.
 
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I think you’re making assumptions about people. I consider myself a practicing Catholic, I’m a Benedictine Oblate, I have a degree in theology. But the rosary is not part of my prayer life (I much prefer the Liturgy of the Hours) and I couldn’t tell you what the joyful mysteries are without looking them up.

The rosary is not a mandated prayer and not doing it is certainly not a matter to take to confession…
 
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Yes, but how many people know that there are 24 self governing churches in communion with the Pope of Rome? I had one lady trying to tell me that Eastern Catholics were Eastern Orthodox. (Close, but not quite). By the way, I love African priests, the man that baptized my older sister is Nigerian, and he’s like a father to me. I used to have, at our parish church, a Congolese parochial vicar, who speaks like eight languages, I talked to him in French. Priests from India, too. I am glad that this is the future of the Church. People keep talking about Christianity “dying” in the west, but look at the places it thrives! I’ve said it before, it may take African priests and priests from India to re-evangelise the west, and I await that. I’ll be right there wit them. Whilst I have no problem with the TLM, I actually prefer Byzantine liturgy to it. And that’s fine! This is why I love being Catholic. Well, there’s the whole transubstantiation thing, and I love that I can have Jesus, real, and tangible, just as the apostles did. I can name every mystery of the rosary. Where I fall apart is, where, during certain times of year, other mysteries may be prayed, I stick with what I’m used to., If it’s Friday, I’m praying the sorrowful mysteries. The exception to that is if I’m praying in a group.
 
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The priest was making a joke about the confession. I’m sorry if that didn’t come across. As Milt said, it is highly likely that many of the people at this church do say the Rosary, or at least know the mysteries. It’s primarily an Italian-American, Irish-American and Latin American parish. In my experience, those cultural groups are very big on the Rosary.

Whether you say it or not is not really material to this discussion (and I was just waiting for somebody to show up posting what you did, since any mention of the Rosary draws such a comment). Unless of course you were at the Mass with me, which I doubt. The homily was about Mary and Marian devotional topics, that is why the priest was discussing Rosary mysteries, the Angelus, the Annunciation, and similar topics. I would note that much of this also comes up in the Liturgy of the Hours which is also not a mandated prayer, but one that many Catholics who prefer Scripture say.
 
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adamhovey1988 said:
Yes, but how many people know that there are 24 self governing churches in communion with the Pope of Rome?
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I would love to have an “Advanced Catholics” Mass where we’d get quizzed on topics like this, I would likely learn things 🙂

I think what bothers me is that it does often seem like we’re repeating third grade over and over instead of moving on to fourth, fifth, high school etc. I guess the “advanced” Mass is typically the daily one where all the really serious Catholics show up at least part of the time, clutching their rosaries, copies of Magnificat magazine, small personal Bibles, wearing sweatshirts of their favorite saints, etc.
 
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Back when I was a Confirmation Catechist, I would get upset over the “Confirmation Test”. The kids have to list all mysteries of the Rosary in their proper groups, list the Stations of the Cross in order.

I would always say that I am glad such a rote memorization test was not required for adult Converts because I STILL cannot name the mysteries in order (I get the Sorrowful because it seems I pray those most often)

Without googling, I think the Joyful are
Annunciation
Visitation
Nativity
Finding in the Temple

Cannot remember the other one.
 
Being able to win a trivia contest is fun, but it doesn’t lead to being a good disciple. Someone who can name the corporal works of mercy is fine, but carrying them out makes a difference both to the doer and the recipient.
 
I would have had a hard time with the Stations when I was a kid. I can do them now, more or less (I might get some out of order) but not then.

The mystery you skipped is the Presentation of Our Lord, however some old Catholic books, such as the one I learned the mysteries from as a child, list it as the Circumcision of Our Lord, which was a different event.
 
Wasn’t part of the presentation ritual the circumcision of the first born male child to the consecration of God?
 
Jesus would have been circumcised 8 days after his birth as stated in Luke 2:21 . January 1 used to be the Feast of the Circumcision till they changed it to the Solemnity of Mary.

His presentation to the Lord as first born son would have taken place at the Temple 40 days after his birth (celebrated on Feb. 2). At that time Mary, his mother would have also been ritually purified as required for mothers who had given birth. I seem to recall at some point the Presentation of Our Lord was actually celebrated as the Purification of Mary.

So no, circumcision wasn’t part of presentation.
 
I sometimes pray the Chaplet of the Precious Blood. One of the sets of meditations for it is the Circumcision of Christ Child
 
Yes, same for the St. Bridget’s 15 year prayer that focus on the 7 times the Lord shed blood. The first prayer is for Circumcision, for the Lord’s first bloodshed, and we ask atonement for the sins of youth and pray for the preservation of innocence.
 
I could not answer what your priest asked. Not that I don’t know what they are or what they mean, just that I don’t think that way that I could rattle them off. I think that is referred to as not testing well. I don’t think I would have been too happy at mass. Sometimes I feel like there is a lot I don’t know or will never know. Things that are beyond my understanding that other people understand. But I am not sure it matters. I don’t believe God is checking our test score in that sort of way.

I think I am more like the world of Catholics in the pew, than the world of CAF.
 
My mom was quite a good Catholic. But she only would have known the Rosary mysteries, not the other questions. She would have had to look them up.

I agree with you I don’t think God really cares about this geek stuff. Sometimes it feels like being an indie rock or indie film hipster to be dealing in knowledge that is pretty esoteric to the average Catholic who goes to Mass. There is a danger of getting an attitude based on knowing a lot of stuff. Plenty of people can still enjoy a record or a movie without knowing all this geek stuff.

At the same time, I wonder if people are really getting the richness of our faith. I am not sure if I would see a point to just showing up every Sunday to church if I didn’t make a big effort to get really into it. Going once a week to Mass and not doing much else seems disjointed and a bit irrelevant. The more I put into it, the more dimensions to it I see.

Plus it’s an odd culture shock to spend time on here and then be in a church where people have to grab for a Missalette to read the Prayer of St. Michael off the back rather than having it memorized, that sort of thing. I am sure now 10 people will say that they themselves don’t say the prayer to St. Michael every day, perhaps because they pray to St. Benedict instead or are too busy keeping up with their LOTH.

It also seems like one never runs out of new stuff to learn about. This past week I learned about the O Antiphons, which I’d never heard of. I didn’t have much time to spend learning about them so I kind of filed that subject away for next year.
 
Priests need to be a little careful with the assumptions they make with their pop quizzes. I remember one day the homily focused in part on not doing things on auto pilot but really knowing what they meant. And he asked who knew why we bless ourselves with holy water on entering the church. People were sort of ducking their heads and avoiding his eyes until finally someone said that it’s a reminder of our baptism. The priest said “YES! I’ll bet you went to a Catholic school.” The man responded “Actually, I’m a Lutheran pastor just visiting here today.”

We didn’t get any quizzes for a long time after that. 🙂

P.S. I don’t know the St. Michael prayer either. Can I trade you a Suscipe?
 
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