The younger generations

[Baelor]

Well, its not repeated in every culture outside the West. Only ones repeating it in those cultures are the ones where younger generations are adopting Western values.

So whether you reject the framework or not, the fact remains that not every culture on the planet has been complaining this way for millenniums.

I question your authority about the young generations in countries to which, I confidently assume, you have never been in your life.

Also, every culture with a written record has indeed been “complaining this way” for millennia. I posted a variety of individuals whose writings you are more than welcome to examine at your leisure.

I think you are not paying much attention to what I write. In my original reply to you, I explained how the culture is suppossed to reflect beliefs held as moral by the religion. The acts encouraged by Cato were not totally out of line compared to what was held as moral in their belief system.

Nice try. The Cato example was in very specific reference to this statement of yours:

As for sexual promiscuity, in most older cultures, it has always been restrained. It also reflects the morals of their particular beliefs.

The fact that you are saying that his position was consistent with Roman values at the time only lends further credence to my use of an example to unmask your ridiculous claim for what it was.

So in this sense, the culture was not degraded or anything. It was simply built on false values.

Read my posts better; you are responding to a claim never made.

Neither was my answer. You simply proved my point how lack of culture can lead even you down the wrong road.

If you do nothing wrong, it is not a wrong road. Not everyone is subject to the same level of moral weakness.

Well, they simply reject tradition and older wisdom as simply not being relevant for them. I am not really in the mood for arguing semantics so I think some thought on your own will help formulate a logical concept that is to your liking.

Thinking has produced my viewopint. Perhaps you should join me.

And I am telling you, apart from the few examples you gave, not every society has perceived their own young generations this way.

viz.?

You are again misunderstanding cultural uniformity with what I am saying. Please pay attention to what I have said. The issue is not cultural uniformity. It is about how well the culture reflects the right and wrong of the societies belief system. In this sense, most the above countries have better cultures than ours right now.

China? Hardly, unless you consider forced and selective abortion a superior culture. Do you have any knowledge of any of these societies at all? It certainly does not seem like it. Theocratic Middle Eastern societies? With their treatment of women and their views on life and death and the dignity of human beings in general? My goodness. How much I did not realize about your perspective.

It seems you are chasing an illusion that you yourself have built, both for the future and in your conception of the past. Whether this is due to misinformation or something more intentional I am, of course, in no position to say.

Assuming the task of the interpreter, one I am loathe to take, it seems that you are singling out particular values – such as obedience for and respect of one’s elders – and elevating them to an incomprehensibly high pedestal. That obedience, for example, does not intrinsically lead to a stable and virtuous society, q.v. the above examples. Ancient Greece’s conception of life and dignity was extremely problematic even when the society was stable due to adherence to tradition, etc.

In other words, you seem neither to have any point or any basis for any of your statements whatsoever. I therefore have no reason to retract my statement about today’s young generation.

If this is what makes you happy, indeed it is what you should stand by. But in my case, I have seen enough, read enough, and traveled enough to know that it is not the case.

So I simply cannot agree with you.

Fortunately, the truth does not depend on your acceptance of it.

 

[Loveolivia]

http://www.castoffdebt.comlol

 

[OurBeloved]

I question your authority about the young generations in countries to which, I confidently assume, you have never been in your life.

Also, every culture with a written record has indeed been “complaining this way” for millennia. I posted a variety of individuals whose writings you are more than welcome to examine at your leisure.

Nice try. The Cato example was in very specific reference to this statement of yours:

The fact that you are saying that his position was consistent with Roman values at the time only lends further credence to my use of an example to unmask your ridiculous claim for what it was.

Read my posts better; you are responding to a claim never made.

If you do nothing wrong, it is not a wrong road. Not everyone is subject to the same level of moral weakness.

Thinking has produced my viewopint. Perhaps you should join me.

viz.?

China? Hardly, unless you consider forced and selective abortion a superior culture. Do you have any knowledge of any of these societies at all? It certainly does not seem like it. Theocratic Middle Eastern societies? With their treatment of women and their views on life and death and the dignity of human beings in general? My goodness. How much I did not realize about your perspective.

It seems you are chasing an illusion that you yourself have built, both for the future and in your conception of the past. Whether this is due to misinformation or something more intentional I am, of course, in no position to say.

Assuming the task of the interpreter, one I am loathe to take, it seems that you are singling out particular values – such as obedience for and respect of one’s elders – and elevating them to an incomprehensibly high pedestal. That obedience, for example, does not intrinsically lead to a stable and virtuous society, q.v. the above examples. Ancient Greece’s conception of life and dignity was extremely problematic even when the society was stable due to adherence to tradition, etc.

In other words, you seem neither to have any point or any basis for any of your statements whatsoever. I therefore have no reason to retract my statement about today’s young generation.

Fortunately, the truth does not depend on your acceptance of it.

I honestly think, after reading some of your past posts, you just like to attack anyone with a position different from yours till they admit you are right. Good luck with that!

 

[Rich_C]

I am saying that I totally reject your framework. Older people
Look, I stand by my point: young people today are not that much worse than young people before, and there is not a way to accurately generalize an entire generation, especially in today’s pluralistic (culturally) society.

Open your eyes Baelor. I’ve seen studies (I wish I had time to find them again right now): rate of pre-marital sex, out-of-wedlock births, abortions, drug use, mental health problems, suicide rates, and youth violence have never been so high in the West (I’ve never studied the rest of the world). We always had these problems, but now they affect a much higher percentage of the under 30 population.

 

[TimothyH]

I think today’s young people in the West, Catholics included, are tragic victims to secularism.

My opinion is that the Catechism of the Catholic Church will be a horrible primary tool for front-line catechesis, especially of young people.

the churches in my area are largely lukewarm, filled with dissent, highly feminized, and open and propagating the heresy of Modernism. This makes the faith rather dull. Younger people see “dull” and go negative.

Another issue with our church today is with the preaching and teaching. I have met only a few priests out of nearly a hundred that will give a solid homily on what the church teaches. The homilies are usually very weak and sometimes make no sense. The younger generation see right through this and realize the church has been reduced, has lost its meaning, and they leave.

Man, to listen to posts like this one would think that the Church is dead.

Reading posts like these is like watching a french film from the 1950’s - they always wait until everyone is in the depths of dispair, and right when all hope is lost they end the film right there.

The idea that the dying Church will be ressurected tomorrow by the next great initiative and that the end is iminent unless we do something radical today would be fine except that for some the Church is perpetually dying and so the need for radical change never ends.

-Tim-

 

[Rich_C]

Man, to listen to posts like this one would think that the Church is dead.

Reading posts like these is like watching a french film from the 1950’s - they always wait until everyone is in the depths of dispair, and right when all hope is lost they end the film right there.

The idea that the dying Church will be ressurected tomorrow by the next great initiative and that the end is iminent unless we do something radical today would be fine except that for some the Church is perpetually dying and so the need for radical change never ends.

-Tim-

HAHAHA, nice analogy.

I think the Church is in a major crisis. It isn’t the first (Chesteron identified four or five major crises prior to his lifetime), I don’t know if its the worst, and if God allows us a few more centuries it probably won’t be the last.

 

[Baelor]

I honestly think, after reading some of your past posts, you just like to attack anyone with a position different from yours till they admit you are right. Good luck with that!

So…you recognize I am right. I appreciate your intellectual support.

Open your eyes Baelor. I’ve seen studies (I wish I had time to find them again right now): rate of pre-marital sex, out-of-wedlock births, abortions, drug use, mental health problems, suicide rates, and youth violence have never been so high in the West (I’ve never studied the rest of the world). We always had these problems, but now they affect a much higher percentage of the under 30 population.

I deny none of that. But there are, however, ways in which the younger generation is poised to do more good than previous generations as well; some of these I have mentioned.

As I stated, issues come and go. The younger generation, for example, is vastly more tolerant racially than previous generations, but that never gets brought up, because it would take a huge smelly dump on the parade of the insipid rhetoric of degeneration, one that has been in effect for thousands of years.

 

[OurBeloved]

So…you recognize I am right. I appreciate your intellectual support.

Amusingly, I saw this very exact quote about how “I am right” on a number of your previous posts. As I said before, when a person is more interested in proving he is right rather than having a discussion, there is nothing to be said to persuade him/her. Even when driven the brink of loosing the argument, you would just go back and try to formulate another argument rather than consider “what if I am simply wrong?”.

But you seem to be young. Lets just hope that you are RIGHT and that you will simply mature and grow out of it

 

[OurBeloved]

I deny none of that. But there are, however, ways in which the younger generation is poised to do more good than previous generations as well; some of these I have mentioned.

As I stated, issues come and go. The younger generation, for example, is vastly more tolerant racially than previous generations, but that never gets brought up, because it would take a huge smelly dump on the parade of the insipid rhetoric of degeneration, one that has been in effect for thousands of years.

This was also worth commenting on. The younger generation is not “racially tolerant”. The younger generations are simply “indifferent” and “ignorant” that they believe there is no grounds to be intolerant toward anything

The best example of the lack of understanding in the young generation is demonstrated when they go “discriminating against same sex couples marrying is like discriminating against black people”. Goes to show how this “young” generation is very smart.

The biggest problem with this young generation however is that they are ignorant and know very little but believe they are always RIGHT!

 

[Baelor]

Amusingly, I saw this very exact quote about how “I am right” on a number of your previous posts. As I said before, when a person is more interested in proving he is right rather than having a discussion, there is nothing to be said to persuade him/her.

Yeah, there is. Hard evidence. Evidence that has been lacking from this thread on your part. So, present some evidence, and my mind will change. I respond to facts.

Even when driven the brink of loosing the argument, you would just go back and try to formulate another argument rather than consider “what if I am simply wrong?”.

Which I have done…where in this thread?

 

[Baelor]

This was also worth commenting on. The younger generation is not “racially tolerant”. The younger generations are simply “indifferent” and “ignorant” that they believe there is no grounds to be intolerant toward anything

In which case they are racially tolerant, because to “believe there is no grounds to be intolerant” on the basis of race is by definition to be tolerant. Whether that stems from a positive source is a different issue altogether.

The best example of the lack of understanding in the young generation is demonstrated when they go “discriminating against same sex couples marrying is like discriminating against black people”. Goes to show how this “young” generation is very smart.

Old people make that same claim. Do you have any evidence that such statements are restricted to the young generation?

 

[OurBeloved]

In which case they are racially tolerant, because to “believe there is no grounds to be intolerant” on the basis of race is by definition to be tolerant. Whether that stems from a positive source is a different issue altogether.

For someone who gives an outlook that you pay attention to details, you sure miss alot.

The point made was that the younger generations believe there is no grounds to be intolerant i.e. NO GROUNDS. So in other words, it applies not just to racism but to any-other thing you can think of, be it Prostitution, same sex marriage etc.

So what is clear is that the younger generation is clueless. They just act out of some misconceived notion of tolerance.

Old people make that same claim. Do you have any evidence that such statements are restricted to the young generation?

Old people here make the same claim. Not Old people in other countries with different value systems (P.S. Did you really visit 36 countries? Were they all part of the same set of countries that share our values? You are sure this wasn’t 36 towns in the US?). Also a thing to keep in mind is that given the sexual revolution took place in around the 1940’s, some of old people today are also as bad as the young ones coming out and were in-fact part of these movements that have the same retarded concept of tolerance.

Anyway, why are we even bothering about this. You must be right no matter what I say.

 

[OurBeloved]

Yeah, there is. Hard evidence. Evidence that has been lacking from this thread on your part. So, present some evidence, and my mind will change. I respond to facts.

Where is the hard evidence on your part?

Which I have done…where in this thread?

Exactly my point!

 

[tritcher1988]

Please, will you share your opinions with me about *today’s *young generations? The early posts were actually very helpful for me.

@Baelor and OurBeloved, Can you please bicker with each other in private?

 

[Baelor]

The point made was that the younger generations believe there is no grounds to be intolerant i.e. NO GROUNDS. So in other words, it applies not just to racism but to any-other thing you can think of, be it Prostitution, same sex marriage etc.

Which I acknowledged. The point remains, however, that young people today are more racially tolerant, which was my original claim.

So what is clear is that the younger generation is clueless. They just act out of some misconceived notion of tolerance.

There is no grounds for intolerance on the basis of race, so I would not claim that notion “misconceived.” Whether that extends to other axes of identity is a different issue, one worth exploring.

Old people here make the same claim. Not Old people in other countries with different value systems

That is irrelevant. You used that claim as proof that young people were clueless. You yourself acknowledge that old people here make the same claim, which in turn means that it is inadmissible as evidence of quodcumque putes in iuvene esse, since it does not apply uniquely to them.

(P.S. Did you really visit 36 countries? Were they all part of the same set of countries that share our values?

Thirty-six towns in the US would have thirty-six different value systems. But yes, I spoke truly.

Also a thing to keep in mind is that given the sexual revolution took place in around the 1940’s, some of old people today are also as bad as the young ones coming out and were in-fact part of these movements that have the same retarded concept of tolerance.

In which case it is not the current generation that is problematic.

Where is the hard evidence on your part?

All the examples of other authors deploring the state of morality in their time periods. Your turn.

Exactly my point!

Your point was that I do not change my argument and have kept a consistent line? I will take it!