Theater and taking the Lord's name in vain

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Ok, so I think I understand what you’re saying.

If someone profains, realizing what he’s doing is offending God (i’m not talking about bad words, I’m talking about saying God’s Holy Name), then it changes to grave matter, as in if he had sufficient reflection/full consent then it would be mortal sin.
I believe so, yes. The only thing I would correct is: it doesn’t “change to a grave matter.” Speaking God’s Holy Name is always a grave matter. What it does is change it from a venial sin to a mortal sin, from profanity to blasphemy.
I also have a question. What if one says God’s Name in a respectful way, but out of habit, without intending to offend God?
Such as if one does so out of habit?
Anything done out of habit is always a venial sin. This is because a habit implies that the condition of full will (and probably also sufficient reflection) is not met. Habits are an acquired way of behaving, and are usually quite difficult to break. Thus, even if one knows it is sinful, and gravely so, acting on the impulse of habit reduces the act to venial, rather than mortal.
Also, on the subject of theater, I would assume today that in most movies, profanity, not blasphemy, occurs, because I believe most Catholics do not know the gravity of the matter, because of the way our society speaks today.

But prudence still should be taken, and one should consult a priest for specific advice.

Am I correct in what I say?

By the way, happy Easter Tuesday!
I think so, too. Even knowledgeable Catholics are unaware of the gravity of this. In fact, I personally know very few people who understand the Church’s position on this matter. So, it is likely that the majority of cases today are cases of profanity, even among Catholics. And in the area of theater and film, there’s the added pressure of trying to “make it” as an actor, which would affect the impunity of the sin.
 
I have a question apropos of this subject.

In literature, is it sinful to quote a character speaking profanity? I have a scene in which a man (not a Christian) on learning of a murder, says “Oh my God.” I’ve tried to think of substitute phrases but haven’t been able to come up with anything conveying sufficient shock without being profane. I think in that case I might say the same.

I intend to consult a priest but wondered what you folks thought since you have been looking into this for some time. And Steven Greydanus did seem to say literature is different from film.
Thanks for your thoughts.
I’m not sure, to be honest. I know that, as a writer myself, I’d feel uncomfortable with it. I think a good rule of thumb might be, “if I changed “God” to one of the actual names of God (as opposed to a title, or common moniker), such as “Jesus Christ,” would I be okay putting that into the book?” Usually, my answer is no.
 
If the intent is neither benevolent nor malevolent, then it may be perjurious or profane, depending on the usage (which is venial sin). However, the proviso here is that if there is an understanding on the part of the speaker that this is a grave matter, and full consent of the will is given anyway, then the sin becomes blasphemous, despite not being malevolent (and this again is a grave/mortal sin).
I didn’t point this out earlier, but perjury, I believe, is **always **grave matter.

Also, speaking God’s Holy Name is not always grave matter…if it was, then it would be potentially mortally sinful to pray the Morning Offering… unless I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying.
 
Anything done out of habit is always a venial sin. This is because a habit implies that the condition of full will (and probably also sufficient reflection) is not met. Habits are an acquired way of behaving, and are usually quite difficult to break. Thus, even if one knows it is sinful, and gravely so, acting on the impulse of habit reduces the act to venial, rather than mortal.
What I meant by saying it was a habit was to say that there was no intention (malevolent or benevolent) AND at the same time it was said respectfully, thus not “misusing” or “failing in respect toward him in one’s speech.”

It would not seem to me to be grave matter, but what would be your opinion?
 
My opinion: I don’t consider saying things like "oh my Lord " as sinful. As far as the actors go, I don’t really care about what they do, but I doubt it’s sinful, unless in some really obscene context, like mocking Christ.
I’m with you on this. It seems to me that when people cry out God’s name, in any form, even when they do it in an angry voice, they are nearly always appealing to some sense of higher fairness, even if they’re wrong about what’s fair. I do not see that as a bad thing.

It is my understanding that taking the Lord’s name in vain has much more to do with presenting one’s own will as God’s will. If I am wrong about that, I hope to be corrected.
 
Here is a link to a video that explains this matter in a very intelligent manner.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=JdXtuCz_uCs

Keep in mind that this link is for mobile users. For laptop and desktop user, simply type in Sensus Fidelium and Movies in the YouTube search engine.
 
This was never an issue probably 20-30 years ago…it wasn’t used on TV or in movies…then very quietly it move onto late night TV…then into R rated movies…people became desensitized to this blasphemy…so now it isn’t even considered blasphemous…and not even a swear word…the ways of the evil one are very subtle and devious…personally I hate hearing our Lords name taken in vain…I had what might be called a spiritual experience about 50 years ago when a voice as clear as day said…“why do you take the name of the Lord in vain”…I was a teenager and not even attending church at that time…that shook me up so much I didn’t know what had happened…for about a week afterwards I felt like I had been turned inside out and was floating on air…incredible experience…it wasn’t until years later that I understood it was the Holy Spirit that had convicted me…why me I haven’t a clue…all I know is that decades later I just cringe whenever I hear someone take the Lords name in vain…I am terrified to say it as a curse word…so to me it is a sin…a very bad sin
 
I didn’t point this out earlier, but perjury, I believe, is **always **grave matter.

Also, speaking God’s Holy Name is not always grave matter…if it was, then it would be potentially mortally sinful to pray the Morning Offering… unless I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying.
Yes, perjury is always a grave matter. I misspoke.

Upon further investigation and a serious attempt to wrap my head around this issue once and for all, here is what I have concluded:

Profanity is an umbrella term that includes blasphemy. That is, all blasphemous thoughts, words and deeds are also profane, but not all profanity is blasphemous.

Blasphemy is always a grave matter, and is always a mortal sin.

All improper (i.e., outside of prayer and outside of demonstrable statements, etc.) uses of God’s Holy Name are profane, but not all such uses are blasphemous. What moves usage of God’s Holy Name from being merely profane to being blasphemous is knowledge and will, advertence and consent.

Habitual use, or inadvertent use, say, out of moment of passion, renders this act merely profane, and therefore venial. But deliberate use, even without direct malice, renders this act as also blasphemous, and therefore mortal.

Thus, as I held in my original position, an actor ignorant of this profanes only, but an actor who knows this and consents to it anyway blasphemes.
 
Yes, perjury is always a grave matter. I misspoke.

Upon further investigation and a serious attempt to wrap my head around this issue once and for all, here is what I have concluded:

Profanity is an umbrella term that includes blasphemy. That is, all blasphemous thoughts, words and deeds are also profane, but not all profanity is blasphemous.

Blasphemy is always a grave matter, and is always a mortal sin.

All improper (i.e., outside of prayer and outside of demonstrable statements, etc.) uses of God’s Holy Name are profane, but not all such uses are blasphemous.** What moves usage of God’s Holy Name from being merely profane to being blasphemous is knowledge and will, advertence and consent.**

Habitual use, or inadvertent use, say, out of moment of passion, renders this act merely profane, and therefore venial. But deliberate use, even without direct malice, renders this act as also blasphemous, and therefore mortal.

Thus, as I held in my original position, an actor ignorant of this profanes only, but an actor who knows this and consents to it anyway blasphemes.
So what I’m understanding is that you are saying that blasphemy occurs when one profanes, with sufficient reflection and consent. That being said, I would conclude that you are stating that profanity is grave matter…

Here is some info from New Advent

Blasphemy, by reason of the significance of the words with which it is expressed, may be of three kinds.

It is heretical when the insult to God involves a declaration that is against faith, as in the assertion: “God is cruel and unjust” or “The noblest work of man is God”.
It is imprecatory when it would cry a malediction upon the Supreme Being as when one would say: “Away with God”.
It is simply contumacious when it is wholly made up of contempt of, or indignation towards, God, as in the blasphemy of Julian the Apostate: “Thou has conquered, O Galilaean”.
Again, blasphemy may be (1) either direct, as when the one blaspheming formally intends to dishonour the Divinity, or (2) indirect, as when without such intention blasphemous words are used with advertence to their import.

The rest of the article says that you should give an honest effort to stop profanity, but if you fall from habit, anger, etc, then it is venial sin…but it gives certain rules about confessing it as well…

Whether blasphemy has been direct or indirect, however, calls not for specification on the part of the penitent, since both these forms are specifically the same, though clearly differing in the degree of malice. The question has been raised whether blasphemy against the saints differs in kind from that uttered immediately against God. While De Lugo thinks that such a difference obtains (De Poenit., disp. xvi, n. 178 sqq.) the opposite opinion of St. Alphonsus seems more tenable, for as the latter theologian observes, the saints, ordinarily speaking, are not blasphemed because of their own excellence but because of their close relationship to God (Theol. Moral., lib. IV, n. 132).

By what is being said, I would assume that yes, profanity can be a grave matter, but usually priests do not say that?

Also, I would assume blasphemy/profanity only occurs when what is being said is truly against God…
 
I do believe the Catechism as well as the Catholic Encyclopedia say that blasphemy extends to the Church and Saints, not because of their own merits, but because of their closeness to God.

Regarding priestly advice calling it normally venial. This may be because there is confusion in the general population about the meanings of the terms involved (profanity vs blasphemy vs cursing vs cussing, etc). So, someone may actually mean “cussing” when they say they use profanity, or they may get “bad language” confused with “cursing” and/or “swearing” and/or “profanity.” Most people don’t really know what they mean when they use these words, and more likely than not, we’re not really talking about profanity.

Moreover, due to the widespread use of God’s name in common parlance, priests may be advised that most people do not realize the seriousness of the sin, and so should not consider most such cases to be true blasphemy, and therefore not mortal.

However, if a priest deliberately says that using God’s name off-handedly or without due respect is only ever venial, then he is in error, as the Catechism and Catholic Encyclopedia, not to mention many other Catholic sources, do say that it is a serious matter.
 
However, if a priest deliberately says that using God’s name off-handedly or without due respect is only ever venial, then he is in error, as the Catechism and Catholic Encyclopedia, not to mention many other Catholic sources, do say that it is a serious matter.
Actually, allow me to retype what New Advent said:

It is heretical when the insult to God involves a declaration that is against faith, as in the assertion: “God is cruel and unjust” or “The noblest work of man is God”.
It is imprecatory when it would cry a malediction upon the Supreme Being as when one would say: “Away with God”.
It is simply contumacious when it is wholly made up of contempt of, or indignation towards, God, as in the blasphemy of Julian the Apostate: “Thou has conquered, O Galilaean”.
Again, blasphemy may be (1) either direct, as when the one blaspheming formally intends to dishonour the Divinity, or (2) indirect, as when without such intention blasphemous words are used with advertence to their import.

There are actually just 3 ways that saying God’s Name is blasphemous, according to New Advent, but again, you are right, God’s Name should never be disrespected.
 
Actually, allow me to retype what New Advent said:

It is heretical when the insult to God involves a declaration that is against faith, as in the assertion: “God is cruel and unjust” or “The noblest work of man is God”.
It is imprecatory when it would cry a malediction upon the Supreme Being as when one would say: “Away with God”.
It is simply contumacious when it is wholly made up of contempt of, or indignation towards, God, as in the blasphemy of Julian the Apostate: “Thou has conquered, O Galilaean”.
Again, blasphemy may be (1) either direct, as when the one blaspheming formally intends to dishonour the Divinity, or (2) indirect, as when without such intention blasphemous words are used with advertence to their import.

There are actually just 3 ways that saying God’s Name is blasphemous, according to New Advent, but again, you are right, God’s Name should never be disrespected.
Right, but the Catechism says:
2148 Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists:
[1] in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance;
[2] in speaking ill of God;
[3] in failing in respect toward him in one’s speech;
[4] in misusing God’s name.
It is also blasphemous to make use of God’s name:
[5] to cover up criminal practices,
[6] to reduce peoples to servitude,
[7] to torture persons or put them to death.
Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin.
So the Catechism holds a broader definition of blasphemy than does the Encyclopedia.
 
Right, but the Catechism says:
2148 Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists:

[1] in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance;

[2] in speaking ill of God;

[3] in failing in respect toward him in one’s speech;

[4] in misusing God’s name.

It is also blasphemous to make use of God’s name:

[5] to cover up criminal practices,

[6] to reduce peoples to servitude,

[7] to torture persons or put them to death.

Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin.

So the Catechism holds a broader definition of blasphemy than does the Encyclopedia.
Well, the first 4 are all part of literally saying God’s Name, and I think all 4 of those can fit into the three conditions by the Encyclopedia.

So the “definition” of blasphemy in the Catechism is actually more specific, IMO.

The last three are also, I believe, mentioned in the Encyclopedia, but I didn’t put it in my post b/c the subject was on speaking God’s Name.

In hindsight maybe I should have put them down in order to avoid possible confusion.😊
 
"If this is done through force of habit, or is the result of levity,
without the least interior devotion or affection, it is a mitigated
form of profanity. To say the least, no honor accrues to God from such
language and such use of His name; and where He is concerned, not to
honor Him is dangerously near dishonoring Him. If contempt of God or
scandal result from such language, the offense may easily be mortal
.

Finally, excited feelings of passion or wrath vent themselves in this
manner, and here it is still more easy to make it a grievous offending.
About the only thing that can excuse from fault is absolute
indeliberation."

So what I’m getting from this whole article (not just the part i put in mini size, I’m just going to use that part later) is that saying God’s Name as to blaspheme is grave matter or mortal sin, saying His Name out of anger, passion, etc. (where God is directly dishonored) could be blasphemous, depending on sufficient reflection, full consent of the will, but saying it from levity (??? in my opinion saying His Name as a joke would be potentially blasphemous???) or from habit or for a reason similar to that (not one where God is directly dishonored) usually is not grave matter, unless it causes scandal, contempt of God, etc.

I personally think the article was slightly more lax than what we concluded in this discussion… b/c it says that saying God’s Name as jokes or habit is not grave matter, (or rather, it says that it is not mortal…b/c it is not directly dishonoring him) while we stated that it was, but the speaker probably would not have had sufficient reflection/full consent b/c it was a habit.

Both, us and the source, say that one should attempt stop the habit, or else he would be committing a mortal sin.

But yeah, still don’t say God’s Name in vain. It’s still sinful… :cool:
 
This link answers directly the question of WATCHING the types of movies referenced in this thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=13588&highlight=imperfect+movie
I’ve seen this answer before, and while I agree with most of what the apologist in this post is saying, I don’t agree with it in full. First, I will address the question of nudity.

Nudity is not in itself intrinsically evil, nor is even public nudity intrinsically evil. Therefore, the portrayal of nudity is not necessarily sinful, nor is the viewing of nudity necessarily sinful. This is why the Church cannot ban all movies with nudity, and even endorses a select few. However, we shouldn’t just take the Church’s non-universal ban as an open door for any kind of nudity. There are two principles which ought to be followed when considering this.

The first is with regards to the nudity being portrayed, and with this we can ask two questions. Is the nudity being portrayed in a titillating manner, and if a sexual act is being portrayed is it simulated or unsimulated? If the nudity/sexuality is non-titillating and simulated, then there isn’t necessarily (and probably not) any sin taking place. However, if the nudity/sexuality is deliberately titillating, and/or not simulated, then we are talking about sin on the parts of the producers of the portrayal (whether that be film, theater, television, magazines, paintings, etc.).

The second is with regards to the viewer of the nudity, and with this we can ask two questions. If the nudity being portrayed is sinful, as defined above, is the viewer aware of this, and even if the portrayal is not sinful, as defined above, does nudity itself represent an occasion of sin for the viewer? If it is sinful, and the viewer is aware of this, then the viewer is complicit in the sin by allowing it to enter into his “inner sanctuary” (his home, or his heart, or his mind, etc), if you will. If the viewer has nudity as an occasion of sin, then simply viewing it, whether the portrayal itself is sinful or not, constitutes a sin, since we are always to avoid the near occasion of sin.

The apologist in the above quoted thread makes the argument, and again I’ve heard this before, that “just because something is imperfect does not mean that it must be shunned. Christ scandalized his contemporaries by enjoying the company of sinners and tax collectors.” I very strongly disagree with this line of reasoning.

Yes, just because something is imperfect does not mean that it must be shunned. No doubt. But to justify the viewing of what is an actual sin, and not by accident, because Jesus was found in the company of sinners is really an invalid comparison. It is so on at least a few levels.

First, sinners are people, a film is not. Certainly, the actors in the film are people, but by watching a movie, you’re not really keeping their company, you viewing a bit of their art. So the comparison fails at that really basic level.

Second, Jesus didn’t just keep their company, He called them to repent of their sins. Jesus was never satisfied with leaving people as they were. We cannot do this with a movie. Indeed, since once a movie is made/released, it cannot be changed (unless you want to suggest some kind of massive recall), your participation in it is a participation in it as it is, without the possibility of redeeming it of its imperfections. So the comparison fails on that level as well.

Third, Jesus is God, and as such draws all people to Himself, saints and sinners alike. We are not to draw all movies unto ourselves, perfect and imperfect alike. So the comparison fails on that level also.

Fourth, though Jesus, Himself, kept the company of sinners, He was sinless and could not be drawn into their sins. And while we are called to reach to sinners in order to draw them to Christ, the Church does advise that we keep wholesome company and avoid unwholesome company in general in order not to be drawn into their sins. So the comparison fails again on this level.

So, while nudity may or may not be sinful depending on the type and the occasion of sin it represents, the same cannot be said of profanity and blasphemy. These are always sinful, regardless of the degree. The best you could argue is that, if the sin is profanity (and thus not mortal) on the part of the actor, then at worst the viewer of the profanity is participating in a venial sin, which, though sinful, one might argue is “not that big a deal” (which I disagree with). The example given in the quoted thread is the movie Babe. I can tell you, as a youth when I watched that movie it put a dark cloud over the entire film for me, and put in me the desire not to watch it again. Sure, the rest of the movie is great, but that one word violated my conscience, and I don’t think I was being scrupulous about it.

One final caveat, which I think is very important to make. In all of this discussion, I am not suggesting that all viewings of such movies, period, are sinful. And this, I think, is highly dependent on the reason your watching the movie. If it is for entertainment, then all of the above applies. However, if it is for research, or perhaps you’re a film critic by trade, or you have some other reason for viewing the film outside of a participation in its story, then all of the above argumentation does not necessarily apply.
 
This link answers directly the question of WATCHING the types of movies referenced in this thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=13588&highlight=imperfect+movie
Oh, and regarding the argument about war films being more realistic using such language, I object with the following:

The use of expletives, as opposed to profanities (the apologist in this thread seems to be confusing these terms), conveys the same sense of realism without being necessarily sinful. Realism doesn’t justify abusing God’s name, especially when alternative language does convey an equal realism.
 
So, while nudity may or may not be sinful depending on the type and the occasion of sin it represents, the same cannot be said of profanity and blasphemy. These are always sinful, regardless of the degree. The best you could argue is that, if the sin is profanity (and thus not mortal) on the part of the actor, then at worst the viewer of the profanity is participating in a venial sin, which, though sinful, one might argue is “not that big a deal” (which I disagree with). The example given in the quoted thread is the movie Babe. I can tell you, as a youth when I watched that movie it put a dark cloud over the entire film for me, and put in me the desire not to watch it again. Sure, the rest of the movie is great, but that one word violated my conscience, and I don’t think I was being scrupulous about it.

One final caveat, which I think is very important to make. In all of this discussion, I am not suggesting that all viewings of such movies, period, are sinful. And this, I think, is highly dependent on the reason your watching the movie. If it is for entertainment, then all of the above applies. However, if it is for research, or perhaps you’re a film critic by trade, or you have some other reason for viewing the film outside of a participation in its story, then all of the above argumentation does not necessarily apply.
Oh, and regarding the argument about war films being more realistic using such language, I object with the following:

The use of expletives, as opposed to profanities (the apologist in this thread seems to be confusing these terms), conveys the same sense of realism without being necessarily sinful. Realism doesn’t justify abusing God’s name, especially when alternative language does convey an equal realism.
First of all, one would have to ask: IS this sinful cooperation?
This is material cooperation:

"Material Cooperation is assistance provided to the immoral act of a principal agent
in which the cooperator does not intend the evil
. The elements needed to define material
cooperation are, first, the free and knowing assistance to the evil act of another, and,
second, the absence of intending the principal agent’s evil acts. If these two factors obtainin any given case, then the moral agent is engaging in material cooperation. However, not all cooperation defined by these factors is morally permissible.

Some types of material cooperation are immoral. Material cooperation can be either immediate or mediate."

Immediate material cooperation in intrinsically evil actions is sinful.

“Mediate Material Cooperation. Mediate material cooperation occurs when the
cooperator participates in circumstances that are not essential to the commission
of an action, such that the action could occur even without this cooperation.
Mediate material cooperation in an immoral act might be justifiable under three
basic conditions:”

The three basic conditions are
  1. If some great good were to be gained (or prevented from being lost) or
    if some great evil were to be avoided…the article goes on to say that the four principles of double effect
  2. . The reason for cooperation must be proportionate to the causal
    proximity of the cooperator’s action and the principal agent’s action
    (the distinction between proximate and remote).
  3. The danger of scandal (i.e., leading others into doing evil, leading
    others into error, or spreading confusion) must be avoided.
Only one of these could potentially apply, so if indeed one is watching movies with blasphemy knowingly, I would presume it is mortal sin. However, it would be quite hard to find a movie that blasphemes.

If it is profanity (using God’s Name, but not blaspheming) then it is venial sin.

However, while profanity (not blasphemy) itself is a venial sin, if an actor is unaware of the Church’s teaching on profanity or blasphemy and its sinfulness, he has “invincible ignorance,” so he might not be sinning at all. So watching such films isn’t simply black and white venial or mortal sin, it can also be no sin.

Finally, here is a good thread with further discussion of the topic. I don’t mean to look like I’m stubbornly refusing to believe you, I just want to present all sides of the issue.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=567924
 
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