Their fruits

[javid]

Hi.

Lord Jesus said: “15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.”

How it would be if he have both good and bad fruits? Is it impossible?

On the other hand, Muhammad had some good fruits: He rejected paganism and expunged it in Arabia, He stopped Female baby killing which was conventional between arabs, He teached that Jesus is the Messiah, He teached that God is one,… So is he a true prophet according to Matthew7:18?

Best regards

 

[Richard_White]

Bearing fruits means doing good works in response to one’s Catholic faith. Once we know the Truth, we have to live it out in our daily lives.

 

[javid]

Bearing fruits means doing good works in response to one’s Catholic faith. Once we know the Truth, we have to live it out in our daily lives.

Isn’t expunging paganism a good fruit to catholic faith?

 

[javid]

???

 

[mdcpensive1]

???

You ask a difficult question because we as humans do good and bad things. Even the second Vatican Council talks about ecclesial communities that are not totally Catholic but have elements of the truth.
But what I can surmise here is that when all is said and done, the goats must be separated from the sheep and the grain from the weeds. God will give judgment on us based on our charity and His justice so there will only be two places for us to live in eternity. Those that go to hell are the ones who have borne bad fruit and not used the graces God gives everyone for their salvation. They will be the ones cut down and cast out of the Kingdom.
I hope this is right !!

 

[betsybug354]

Jesus also said that a healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit. It’s enough for me to know that the Qur’an denies Christ’s suffering on the cross for the sins of mankind. That denial is the ultimate when it comes to bad fruit.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Jesus also said that a healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit. It’s enough for me to know that the Qur’an denies Christ’s suffering on the cross for the sins of mankind. That denial is the ultimate when it comes to bad fruit.

Point well taken but even Islam has some truth in that they know God is One. Maybe that is something that can be worked with so they may bear better fruit in the future.

Are you waiting for the big snow like I am in St. Louis ??

 

[betsybug354]

Point well taken but even Islam has some truth in that they know God is One. Maybe that is something that can be worked with so they may bear better fruit in the future.

Are you waiting for the big snow like I am in St. Louis ??

Ha! Just a dusting here so far in St. Charles County. Maybe I’ll be able to make it out to 5 pm mass after all. I do appreciate your charity toward Muslims. They are, after all, sincere in their belief in God and are not their founder.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Ha! Just a dusting here so far in St. Charles County. Maybe I’ll be able to make it out to 5 pm mass after all. I do appreciate your charity toward Muslims. They are, after all, sincere in their belief in God and are not their founder.

Hope you make it to Mass. Let’s hope Mary our Mother will work on the Muslims. BTW, I never read any passage in scripture where Jesus was walking through the snow. I guess He knew where to be born !!

 

[javid]

Jesus also said that a healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit. It’s enough for me to know that the Qur’an denies Christ’s suffering on the cross for the sins of mankind. That denial is the ultimate when it comes to bad fruit.

I don’t think so! Quran just says Jews didn’t kill jesus! Quran does not say God saved him from cross!

On the other hand: “A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit” If Muhammad is a bad tree why did he bear good friuts such as teaching God is one or Jesus is the Messiah?

 

[javid]

You ask a difficult question because we as humans do good and bad things. Even the second Vatican Council talks about ecclesial communities that are not totally Catholic but have elements of the truth.
But what I can surmise here is that when all is said and done, the goats must be separated from the sheep and the grain from the weeds. God will give judgment on us based on our charity and His justice so there will only be two places for us to live in eternity. Those that go to hell are the ones who have borne bad fruit and not used the graces God gives everyone for their salvation. They will be the ones cut down and cast out of the Kingdom.
I hope this is right !!

According to what Lord Jesus said, One tree can’t have both good fruit and bad fruit! But we have some claims that have both! Muhammad is a example!

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Hi.

Lord Jesus said: “15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.”

How it would be if he have both good and bad fruits? Is it impossible?

On the other hand, Muhammad had some good fruits: He rejected paganism and expunged it in Arabia, He stopped Female baby killing which was conventional between arabs, He teached that Jesus is the Messiah, He teached that God is one,… So is he a true prophet according to Matthew7:18?

Best regards

Since you are quoting from the Bible you must either view it as-
a) bearing good fruit and therefore can not have been corrupted, which invalidates Islam’s claim it has been corrupted
or
b) bearing good fruit…which invalidates Islam’s claim it has been corrupted because there is no logical reason you would cite the Bible if you thought it was “bad fruit.”

The only logical conclusions therefore are-
-that no Muhammad wasn’t a prophet
or
-your interpretation of the passage and application of said interpretation to Muhammad is incorrect

 

[mdcpensive1]

According to what Lord Jesus said, One tree can’t have both good fruit and bad fruit! But we have some claims that have both! Muhammad is a example!

It is obvious that the meaning of bearing good and bad fruit on a tree has a mysterious meaning that is not just fundamental. Life is comprised of both good and bad. People do bad things but they do good things also because they have concupiscence. We have grace yet we exist in a sinful world. The world is not all bad or all good. We are in a spiritual battle where good and evil both win sometimes. I believe that this passage reflects the end of things where judgment will determine our bad fruit or good fruit.
St. Augustine teaches about the two cities growing together. One is the city of secular society and the other the city of God.

 

[javid]

a) bearing good fruit and therefore can not have been corrupted, which invalidates Islam’s claim it has been corrupted
or
b) bearing good fruit…which invalidates Islam’s claim it has been corrupted because there is no logical reason you would cite the Bible if you thought it was “bad fruit.”

The only logical conclusions therefore are-
-that no Muhammad wasn’t a prophet
or
-your interpretation of the passage and application of said interpretation to Muhammad is incorrect

I didn’t mean that.

Muhammad is a example! I’m not a Muhammadan. I said if he has good fruits, he can’t be a faulse prophet because: “nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit”

I just mean some people who have such claims, has both good and bad fruits, but according to the bible one tree can’t has both: “A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit”

 

[dronald]

Point well taken but even Islam has some truth in that they know God is One. Maybe that is something that can be worked with so they may bear better fruit in the future.

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
-St James

 

[RPRPsych]

Isn’t expunging paganism a good fruit to catholic faith?

Not if it means replacing it with a violent religion opposed to the Christian faith. It’s like the parable of the demon leaving a man; if the Christian faith does not replace it, seven more worse than itself come. We are seeing those fruits today, even if they are not what Mohammed himself directly willed:

• Wahhabism
• Female genital mutilation
• Honour killing
• Terrorism
• Anti-Semitic violence and propaganda
• Anti-Christian violence and propaganda
• Forced marriages

If that’s not rotten fruit, I don’t know what is.

 

[Servant19]

Not if it means replacing it with a violent religion opposed to the Christian faith. It’s like the parable of the demon leaving a man; if the Christian faith does not replace it, seven more worse than itself come. We are seeing those fruits today, even if they are not what Mohammed himself directly willed:

• Wahhabism
• Female genital mutilation
• Honour killing
• Terrorism
• Anti-Semitic violence and propaganda
• Anti-Christian violence and propaganda
• Forced marriages

If that’s not rotten fruit, I don’t know what is.

One cannot judge a religion and its teachings based on the acts of some rotten adherents, or should we start to look at the history of Catholicism in this manner as well?

.

 

[RPRPsych]

One cannot judge a religion and its teachings based on the acts of some rotten adherents,

Agreed, but…

or should we start to look at the history of Catholicism in this manner as well?

Well, let’s look at the founders of those two religions, rather than focus on adherents:

Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and is without sin.

Mohammed either committed or endorsed most of the acts in that list, or set the stage for them (with the exception of FGM, which is a tribal custom that was co-opted by Islam.)

Also, the Church has never taught or endorsed polygamy, child marriage, or the right to beat one’s wife - all things that are found in the Quran or Life of Mohammed, and which are certainly not the invention of a few deranged followers.

 

[Servant19]

Agreed, but…

Well, let’s look at the founders of those two religions, rather than focus on adherents:

Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and is without sin.

Mohammed either committed or endorsed most of the acts in that list, or set the stage for them (with the exception of FGM, which is a tribal custom that was co-opted by Islam.)

Also, the Church has never taught or endorsed polygamy, child marriage, or the right to beat one’s wife - all things that are found in the Quran or Life of Mohammed, and which are certainly not the invention of a few deranged followers.

Can you show me official historical sources please, for Muhammad endorsing terrorism and the other things on your list?



.

 

[RPRPsych]

Can you show me official historical sources please, for Muhammad endorsing terrorism and the other things on your list?



.

The following primer is an eye-opener - it was for me; I used to be in the “liberal” crowd as far as Islam was concerned. Note that my criticism is of Islam, not Muslims. Hate the evil doctrine, love the human being created in God’s image.

jihadwatch.org/islam-101