Theistic evolution

[pedja]

“He rested on the seventh day.” A 24-hour day? If not, why are the other 6 days 24-hour days?

I dont understand your question. The 6 days were 6 x 24-hrs days. And the same goes for the 7th day. Seven days = one week. How then do you understand the Sabbath commandment?!

 

[cpayne]

I dont understand your question. The 6 days were 6 x 24-hrs days. And the same goes for the 7th day. Seven days = one week. How then do you understand the Sabbath commandment?!

What I meant by the question is found in Hebrews 4. God has entered into His rest and IS STILL IN THAT REST. When we become Christians, we also enter into that day of rest, WHICH WE LIVE IN CONTINUALLY. The sabbath rest is a picture of the “rest” found by faith in Christ.

So God is still in His seventh day of rest–i.e., it is not considered a 24-hour day by the author of Hebrews.

 

[pedja]

What I meant by the question is found in Hebrews 4. God has entered into His rest and IS STILL IN THAT REST. When we become Christians, we also enter into that day of rest, WHICH WE LIVE IN CONTINUALLY. The sabbath rest is a picture of the “rest” found by faith in Christ.

So God is still in His seventh day of rest–i.e., it is not considered a 24-hour day by the author of Hebrews.

What`s all that got to do with evolution? Did God create in 6 x 24 hours or not?

 

[cpayne]

What`s all that got to do with evolution? Did God create in 6 x 24 hours or not?

My point was / is that, if the seventh day of Creation is considered biblically as NOT a literal 24-hour day (according to Hebrews 4), then the other six days may also be considered as extended time periods. This point does not have anything specifically to do with evolution, but segues into it by extending the time frame covered in Genesis 1.

 

[faelpsanfeel]

If evolution precludes the existence of God, then why does time even exist. Why didn’t God just create us as spirits in Heaven and Hell?

And, just to play Devil’s advocate, why does it matter to God if it takes 7 billion years to create something or 7 seconds? It’s all just an instant to God anyway. Isn’t God powerful enough that he could put events into action that will have his fully intended, far-reaching implications while still making sense to the human “cause and effect” mentality?

How many scientific discoveries have we ignored in the past just because they don’t fit in with the exact way we pictured God doing things?

 

[pedja]

If evolution precludes the existence of God, then why does time even exist. Why didn’t God just create us as spirits in Heaven and Hell?

And, just to play Devil’s advocate, why does it matter to God if it takes 7 billion years to create something or 7 seconds? It’s all just an instant to God anyway. Isn’t God powerful enough that he could put events into action that will have his fully intended, far-reaching implications while still making sense to the human “cause and effect” mentality?

How many scientific discoveries have we ignored in the past just because they don’t fit in with the exact way we pictured God doing things?

It doesn’t matter to God how much time it takes, but He says it took 6 days, that`s why I believe it.

God could have chosen evolution as his way of creating but the question is did he? Well the Bible clearly says He didn’t. And the scientific community doesn’t know but it keeps guessing! Some scientists think it was done through a 6 day creation and some of them think it was through evolution. And some of them don’t believe in God at all

 

[pedja]

My point was / is that, if the seventh day of Creation is considered biblically as NOT a literal 24-hour day (according to Hebrews 4), then the other six days may also be considered as extended time periods. This point does not have anything specifically to do with evolution, but segues into it by extending the time frame covered in Genesis 1.

Hebrew also says "There remaineth therefore a rest (gr. sabbatismos) to the people of God. The same day of rest (24 hours) God gave us through is commandments.

 

[faelpsanfeel]

It doesn’t matter to God how much time it takes, but He says it took 6 days, that`s why I believe it.

God could have chosen evolution as his way of creating but the question is did he? Well the Bible clearly says He didn’t. And the scientific community doesn’t know but it keeps guessing! Some scientists think it was done through a 6 day creation and some of them think it was through evolution. And some of them don’t believe in God at all

Well many people in the scientific community generally claim that evolution is now a universally accepted fact, but that’s obviously not the case now is it?

…Sound familiar?

 

[pedja]

Well many people in the scientific community generally claim that evolution is now a universally accepted fact, but that’s obviously not the case now is it?

…Sound familiar?

Many people in Germany prior to WW2 generally thought that there exists an inferior race which needs to be exterminated.

Many people in USA believed that Iraq had WMD and therefore they should be invaded.

Many people in the world generally think that Jesus Christ is not Lord and Saviour.

I don’t care what the majority of any people generally regard to be true or not, I have to find the truth for myself.

The claim of many scientists that evolution is a universally accepted fact is worthless if what they claim is not true.

 

[faelpsanfeel]

You seem to have missed my point.

I’m saying that your claims about what the “bible clearly states” are rather analogous to biologists’ claims about the consensus on evolution. They are similar because if either claim were actually true then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

EDIT: And incidentally, there are devices all over your house that must be absolutely useless to you if a scientist has to believe in Christ to do valid research.

 

[pedja]

You seem to have missed my point.

I’m saying that your claims about what the “bible clearly states” are rather analogous to biologists’ claims about the consensus on evolution. They are similar because if either claim were actually true then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

EDIT: And incidentally, there are devices all over your house that must be absolutely useless to you if a scientist has to believe in Christ to do valid research.

So we have the word of God standing against the word of a human (i.e. scientist) ?

 

[japhy]

That is correct: “at the beginning the Creator made them male and female.” What in theistic evolution would conflict with this?

And, technically, it wasn’t “at the beginning”. It wasn’t until the sixth day that God made Man anyway, male and female. So then, since the literal interpretation of “at the beginning” in Scripture can mean “on the sixth day of creation”, why can’t the theistic evolutionary interpretation of “at the beginning” in Scripture mean “when God made Man”?

 

[faelpsanfeel]

So we have the word of God standing against the word of a human (i.e. scientist) ?

No, we have your opinion about what the Bible says vs. his opinion about how the universe functions.

I think you’re missing the part where I don’t necessarily agree with the scientists either.

 

[Montalban]

That is correct: “at the beginning the Creator made them male and female.” What in theistic evolution would conflict with this?

These quotes were posted in reaction to a suggestion some said that Jesus ‘forgot’ that he was the creator.

In relation to what pedja noted.

 

[Montalban]

What I meant by the question is found in Hebrews 4. God has entered into His rest and IS STILL IN THAT REST. When we become Christians, we also enter into that day of rest, WHICH WE LIVE IN CONTINUALLY. The sabbath rest is a picture of the “rest” found by faith in Christ.

So God is still in His seventh day of rest–i.e., it is not considered a 24-hour day by the author of Hebrews.

What Church Fathers have noted this?

 

[faelpsanfeel]

What Church Fathers have noted this?

If that’s your way of asking for him to cite a reference, I would have to agree.

 

[cpayne]

What Church Fathers have noted this?

I’ll answer your question when you answer my six.

 

[Montalban]

I’ll answer your question when you answer my six.

Were they directed to me to answer?

1. Would geologists arrive at the conclusion that the Earth is 6,000 years old, BASED ON THEIR EVIDENCE?

some have

1. Would astronomers arrive at the conclusion that the universe is 6,000 years old, based on their evidence?

some have

1. Would archeologists and biologists arrive at the conclusion that animal species have only been around for 6,000 years, based on their evidence?

some have

1. Would archeologists and anthropologists arrive at the conclusion that the human race has only been around for 6,000 years, based on their evidence?

some have

1. If the universe is billions of years old, does that mean it no longer requires a Creator?

I think this is a loaded question. I don’t believe that the universe is billions of years old.

1. If the universe is billions of years old, does that fact do anything for or against Catholic / Protestant theology?

I don’t know. Ask a Catholic or Protestant (theologian)

 

[cpayne]

Oh, well. Thanks, I guess, for answering the questions I posed. At this point it’s pretty obvious any further engagement will go around in the same circles. Too bad, as this is a crucial question for serious Christian reflection.

Your question was: “What Church Fathers have noted this?” (God’s entering into His sabbath rest, Christians likewise entering into their sabbath rest when they become Christians). I said I’d answer it, so here’s my answer: I don’t know. The idea is presented in many biblical commentaries, as it seems fairly obvious in Hebrews 4. You can take this as a deep and meaningful concession, if you want to. So long (from a fellow anti-materialist).

 

[Montalban]

If that’s your way of asking for him to cite a reference, I would have to agree.

Yes it is. He’s subsequently answered, but only that it was in a ‘bible commentary’. I don’t know which bible edition, nor who’s the commentator.