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Robert_Heibel
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Robert_Heibel
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I have to be careful what I say on the forum, so let me explain something to you. Many years ago I asked Jesus about submission to the Churches authority.
When I saw that Jesus was teaching me much that the Church no longer taught, I was concerned. So I asked Him about how I could summit to the Churches headship and still do what He was asking me to do? Jesus told me to cooperate with. Letting me know that I was no longer under the Churches authority, but I was not to fight against the Church, but was to help. Now I will quote you a Scripture and after you read it maybe you will understand that what I just shared has happened before me. (Matthew 12:1-4) At that time Jesus went through the cornfields one Sabbath day. His disciples were hungry and began to pick ears of corn and eat them. The Pharisees noticed it and said to him, ‘Look, your disciples are doing something that is forbidden on the Sabbath’ but he said to them, ‘Have you not read what David did when he and his followers were hungry — how he went into the house of god and they ate the loaves of the offering although neither he nor his followers were permitted to eat them, but only the priests?
Robert
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UBERROGO
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Robert Heibel:
so did you hear Him audibly or how did it come about? What did He say? Please be specific and detailed.
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Robert_Heibel
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Yes I have heard Jesus speak to me audibly, but in thirty years only twice. Jesus has communicated with me in a number of other ways, many times. The first time that I was really aware Jesus was talking to me, was through my wife’s gift of tongues and interpretation. For two years Jesus talked to me in my mind and my heart. Don’t know how to explain that, but I guess it needs to be experienced to understand. Later after I received the gift of tongues I would have a question to ask Jesus and I would get a tongue and my wife would get the interpretation, which would be the answer to my question. I have also had a tongue and was also given the interpretation. Jesus gave me visions of Him walking and teaching me. After a long time Jesus told me to pray to be open and sensitive to His touch and to His Word all day long. As to what He has told me that is way too much to share in this format, but some of what He has taught me is in the threads and post that I have written in this forum. Jesus also at times has given me the gift of knowledge and healing, but these are not gifts that I walk in, but Jesus lets happen when He decides.
Robert
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fix
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Robert Heibel:
I am sorry but your reasoning leads us to think that Jesus is contradicting Himself and we know Christ does not change.
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Robert_Heibel
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The disciples were breaking the law, but they were with Jesus and David was breaking the law and he was with Jesus. So Jesus can and does release us from what ever. Think about it, if Jesus wants someone to give a word to the Church and that person is submitted to the Church, and the word isn’t accepted by the Church, all the Church has to say is you are wrong be quiet, and the person has to be quiet. How than can the person do what Jesus told him to do?
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felra
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Robert Heibel:
This scripture story was included by Matthew to show to the early Christians that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, i.e., “how much more does the presence of Jesus, with his proclamation of the kingdom (something greater than the temple), justify the conduct of his disciples.” (NAB footnote) …It does help to read footnotes and orthodox commentaries. Your conclusion from the above scripture would be akin to Jesus giving the early disciples authority apart from Him.
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dennisknapp
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Robert Heibel:
I don’t know…
Peace
It seems as though Jesus is of two minds here. There is the one we see in Scripture, the one who set up a Church in whom he placed specific authority, and the one you claim to hear. They both seem to be saying contradictory things. Is this possible? Are you telling us that those things you see wrong with the Catholic Church are the same things Jesus sees wrong with the Church? Also, these same things he sees as wrong with the Church he has told you, and only you. And he has given you the sole duty of helping to change these things about the Church? And all the evidence you give us is claiming he told you these things personally…
I don’t know…
Peace
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Catholic4aReasn
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Robert Heibel:
2 Co 11:13-14 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself is disguised as an angel of light.
In Christ,
Nancy
I would submit that it wasn’t really Jesus that was speaking to that person.
2 Co 11:13-14 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself is disguised as an angel of light.
In Christ,
Nancy
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felra
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Robert Heibel:
“…**if Jesus wants someone to give a word to the Church and that person is submitted to the Church, and the word isn’t accepted by the Church, **…” …as Catholics, this is where the buck stops, since the Church is the final abritrator, has the final word. As scripture says, Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to the first Pope Peter, and all subsequent popes.
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Robert_Heibel
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May God bless you.I would submit that it wasn’t really Jesus that was speaking to that person.
2 Co 11:13-14 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself is disguised as an angel of light.
In Christ,
Nancy
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fix
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Robert Heibel:
It always goes back to authority. Either Christ left us a living authority that is infallible, or we each are our own authority and we each contradict each other and Christ is confusion. It cannot be both.
The measure of humility is obedience. If one claims Jesus is giving them a command and that command contradicts Church teaching, that command is not from Jesus, or we are misunderstanding the command.
It always goes back to authority. Either Christ left us a living authority that is infallible, or we each are our own authority and we each contradict each other and Christ is confusion. It cannot be both.
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Robert_Heibel
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Ask Jesus yourself if what I have shared on the Forum is right or wrong. Everything I have been taught by Jesus is Scriptural. In the end we all will have to answer to God on how faithfully we walked the Word of God.
God bless you.
Robert
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Catholic4aReasn
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Robert Heibel:
In Christ,
Nancy
We have Robert, and He has clearly told each of us that where you contradict His Church you are wrong.
In Christ,
Nancy
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fix
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Robert Heibel:
Of course we all will answer to God. The question is did God leave us alone to each act as the final arbiter or did He leave His Church?
I am being very genuine. How do you reconcile the issue of authority?
I asked Him and He said you are wrong about these issues. Now, which of us has it correct?
Of course we all will answer to God. The question is did God leave us alone to each act as the final arbiter or did He leave His Church?
I am being very genuine. How do you reconcile the issue of authority?
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Catholic4aReasn
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Robert, does the possibility exist, however remotely, that you’re mistaken?
In Christ,
Nancy
In Christ,
Nancy
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felra
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Robert Heibel:
Sola Sciptura (“the bible alone”) is not biblical.
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Robert_Heibel
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NO!! I know Jesus is God and the Bible is God’s Word. What a fool I would be to take a chance on losing my soul to everlasting fire.Robert, does the possibility exist, however remotely, that you’re mistaken?
In Christ,
Nancy
Robert
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fix
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Robert Heibel:
How do you know this?
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Catholic4aReasn
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Robert Heibel:
In Christ,
Nancy
There are so many people who hold conflicting interpretations of the bible who believe, as you do, that the possiblity does not exist that they could be wrong. As a result, one of two things MUST be true:
- Jesus is misleading someone
- It’s possible for someone to sincerely believe that the possibility does not exist that he is wrong yet, in reality, BE wrong anyway.
In Christ,
Nancy
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