Who gave those men not only the command to design the Ark, but all of the dimensions and materials to be used?Immaculate Conception - Comparing Mary to a box… Furthermore as you rightly said, man taking care to design a box, not God! God need only create Jesus free from original sin (if indeed it exists as per previous point). NB: The immaculate conception need only be accepted if we accept original sin.
I’m going to attempt to stick to just the topic at hand instead of debating the entire bible to prove a single point. I don’t assume they have the same meaning, I see a direct correlation in scripture to Mary being represented by the writers of the Gospels as the Ark of the Covenant. The language being used matches in too many places for it to have been a mere coincidence. (here are just a few scriptures to consider).yes God did, but I think an unfair allusion is being made. It is really easy to compare stories and assume they have the same meaning. Why must the Ark of the Covenant be compared to Mary, and then the Commandments on tablet be compared to Jesus? We could just as easily compare the commandments given by Jesus to the original ten then our hearts as the ‘box’ that we must redesign so to hold them truly, justly and sincerely! I think the Ark of the Covenant was for more practical reasons… before you argue that surely he could have just created a box, surely he could have done a lot of things! It also stands to ask the question how literal was the OT? Do you believe in literal 6-day creation as we understand the day? That Adam & Eve were literally the first humans, despite their sons marrying already pre-existing humans? etc…
Why do you think we hold Mary as ever virgin? The bible says that God forms us in the womb, not our parents. The Word of God is in the ten commandments. We Hold the entirety of Sacred Scripture to hold the Word of God, but we also hold that Jesus Christ IS the word of God. There is no problem there.A problem arises in that the Ark, although designed by God and instruction given from, was built by man. Mary was not built by man, unless we are to suggest that Mary’s parents were the builders, but they lack direct instruction. God came upon the tent and filled the tabernacle, Moses could not enter the tent = God came upon Mary, filled her womb, Moses/Joseph/anyone else… could not enter her?
Surely the ten commandments would be more accurately the word of Jesus, written down on tablet therefore the written gospels, Moses therefore the gospel authors, as opposed to Jesus the man. Or is Jesus the stone tablet placed in the wooden ark? The commandments where also given before the ark’s construction; Jesus was given after Mary’s ‘construction’.
I see where you are coming from, and some good ideas, but there are some basic problems arising, with regards to continuity and finer points.
Jesus’ body would have been created, if it already existed beforehand then the issue of his original sin having to be avoided wouldn’t exist, unless he was born of another mother then transplanted surrogately!?.Why do you think we hold Mary as ever virgin? The bible says that God forms us in the womb, not our parents. The Word of God is in the ten commandments. We Hold the entirety of Sacred Scripture to hold the Word of God, but we also hold that Jesus Christ IS the word of God. There is no problem there.
As to Jesus being given after Mary’s construction, Jesus is eternal with the Father… He wasn’t ‘created’ like a stone tablet in the womb of Mary.
You don’t accept original sin?The immaculate conception need only be accepted if we accept original sin.
It was the ordering of events, not the word of God part, that has discontinuity.Let me try it this way, when God wrote the 10 commandments on stone, the Word of God was written on a created thing. The Word was written on stone.
When God formed Jesus the Word of God was written in a created medium. The Word of God was written IN flesh.
There is no discontinuity there.
There Word of God was not created in the stone, it existed before the stone with the Word of God written existed. The same with the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Word of God existed long before the ‘human’ part of him was formed in the womb, just as with the stone.
this has been continued from a debate comparing catholic and orthodox traditions. as for original sin, I am debating the issue currently. I would so far so I do not, for the reasons cited in the other threadYou don’t accept original sin?