Theological trouble

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Here is the condemed propsition(from the papal bull Unigenitus) that I thought was part of the catholic faith:
  1. The grace of Jesus Christ, which is the efficacious principle of every kind of good, is necessary for every good work; without it, not only is nothing done, but nothing can be done.
I thought that the Church taught that we need the help of the grace of God to do a good work. Also does it not contradict this verse:

John 15:5 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
 
I thought that the Church taught that we need the help of the grace of God to do a good work. Also does it not contradict this verse:
Hi catholic101,

It depends on what you mean by “grace” and “good work”.

If you mean grace in a general ubiquitous sense, such as God’s conservative power whereby all creation is held in being, then yes not just good works but all works, and everything else depends on that gift.

But, that is not the type of grace referred to above. Unigenitus was condemning Jansenistic error which posited that one can do no good without grace. The Church holds that one may perform good works or acts without grace, however they are not meritorious. The Jansenistic error was that all actions apart from grace are sinful.

That help? What do you think?
VC
 
Hi catholic101,

It depends on what you mean by “grace” and “good work”.

If you mean grace in a general ubiquitous sense, such as God’s conservative power whereby all creation is held in being, then yes not just good works but all works, and everything else depends on that gift.

But, that is not the type of grace referred to above. Unigenitus was condemning Jansenistic error which posited that one can do no good without grace. The Church holds that one may perform good works or acts without grace, however they are not meritorious. The Jansenistic error was that all actions apart from grace are sinful.

That help? What do you think?
VC
Thanks for the reply that does help. When a person does a good work without the grace of God to help them is it generally(or always?)not meritorius because they have the wrong motive? I am willing to submit to the churchs judgement on this matter. I guess I had a jansenist belief(but my belief was formed by a interpretation of the council of trents teaching on justification), however I can see now how they can be reconciled. Is the fundamental issue here what is human nature like, I guess the catholic position is that we have a strong inclination to sin, but we are capable of doing a good work without the assistence of grace(in a sense as you pointed out). However it is impossible to be saved without grace.

CHAPTER V. (Council of Trent)
On the necessity, in adults, of preparation for Justification, and whence it proceeds.
The Synod furthermore declares, that in adults, the beginning of the said Justification is to be derived from the prevenient [Page 33] grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called; that so they, who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace: in such sort that, while God touches the heart of man by the illumination of the Holy Ghost, neither is man himself utterly without doing anything while he receives that inspiration, forasmuch as he is also able to reject it; yet is he not able, by his own free will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight. Whence, when it is said in the sacred writings: Turn ye to me, and I will turn to you, we are admonished of our liberty; and when we answer; Convert us, O Lord, to thee, and we shall be converted, we confess that we are prevented by the grace of God.
 
Here’s something from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"According to Jansenism, the mere absence of the state of grace and love (status gratiae et caritatis) branded as sins all the deeds of the sinner, even the ethically good ones (e.g., almsgiving). This was the lowest ebb in its disparagement and depreciation of the moral forces in man; and here, too, Baius had paved the way. The possession of sanctifying grace or theological love thus became the measure and criterion of natural morality. Taking as his basis the total corruption of nature through original sin (i.e. concupiscence) as taught by early Protestantism, Quesnel, especially (Prop. xliv in Denzinger, n. 1394), gave the above-expressed thought the alleged Augustinian form that there is no medium between love of God and love of the world, charity and concupiscence, so that even the prayers of the impious are nothing else but sins. (Cfr. Prop. xlix: “Oratio impiorum est novum peccatum et quod Deus illis concedit, est novum in eos judicium”). The answer of the Church to such severe exaggerations was the dogmatic Bull, “Unigenitus” (1713), of Pope Clement XI. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. vii) had however already decreed against Martin Luther: “Si quis dixerit, opera omnia quae ante justificationem fiunt . . . vere esse peccata . . . anathema sit” (If anyone shall say that all the works done before justification are indeed sins, let him be anathema). Moreover, what reasonable man would concede that the process of justification with its so-called dispositions consists in a long series of sins? And if the Bible, in order to effect the conversion of the sinner, frequently summons him to contrition and penance, to prayer and almsdeeds, shall we admit the blasphemy that the Most Holy summons him to the commission of so many sins?

The Catholic doctrine on this point obstinately adhered to through all the centuries, is so clear that even an Augustine could not have departed from it without becoming a public heretic. True, Baius and Quesnel succeeded in cleverly concealing their heresy in a phraseology similar to the Augustinian, but without penetrating the meaning of Augustine. The latter, it must be conceded, in the course of the struggle with self-confident Pelagianism, ultimately so strongly emphasized the opposition between grace and sin, love of God and love of the world, that the intermediary domain of naturally good works almost completely disappeared. But Scholasticism had long since applied the necessary correction to this exaggeration. That the sinner, in consequence of his habitual state of sin, must sin in everything, is not the doctrine of Augustine. The universality of sin in the world which he contemplated, is not for him the result of a fundamental necessity, but merely the manifestation of a general historical phenomenon which admits of exceptions (De spir. et lit., c. xxvii, n. 48). He specifically declares marital love, love of children and friends to be something lawful in all men, something commendable, natural and dutiful, even though Divine love alone leads to heaven. He admits the possibility of these natural virtues also in the impious: “Sed videtis, istam caritatem esse posse et impiorum, i.e. paganorum, Judaeorum, haereticorum” (Serm. cccxlix de temp. in Migne, P.L., XXXIX, 1529)."
From: newadvent.org/cathen/06689x.htm

I think the Papal Bull in question is just condemning the idea that without grace everything is sin, which is more similar to the Total Depravity of Protestants and is not Catholic theology. It is not, however, denying grace since grace is necessary, as the Council of Trent says, that we cannot achieve justice in God’s sight. So doing good and doing good that is meritorious are two different things.

Pax Christi tecum.
 
Thanks for the reply that does help.
You’re welcome.
When a person does a good work without the grace of God to help them is it generally(or always?)not meritorius because they have the wrong motive?
There are two questions there: 1) are good works done without God’s grace meritorious and 2) are they not meritorious because they have the wrong motive.
  1. Actions which are not vivified by grace are never supernaturally meritorious. God gives a supernatural reward to actions done with the help of His grace.
  2. Motive does play a part in this, in that good acts performed by one in the state of grace are without merit if they do not proceed from a supernatural motive. But the threshold requirement is whether someone is in the state of grace in the first place. So one could be in the state of grace, perform a good act, but not refer it to God, and therefore have no supernatural motivation. It would not be meritorious in that case.
Is the fundamental issue here what is human nature like, I guess the catholic position is that we have a strong inclination to sin, but we are capable of doing a good work without the assistence of grace(in a sense as you pointed out). However it is impossible to be saved without grace.
Yes it is impossible to be saved without grace. Nature denotes the principle of activity of thing. Since our final beatitude in heaven consists of activity which is beyond our nature, we need a new nature. Grace gives us a new principle of activity, above (supra) our nature – we become capable of supernatural activity.

So natural good works, which are moral, and may even be noble, unselfish, etc. are entirely possible with our human nature. Supernaturally good works, those that merit a supernatural reward, are impossible.

It should be noted, however, that while someone may be able to perform morally good acts without grace – because of our original wound we are unable to do all good required, or persevere in doing good.

What do you think?
VC
 
You’re welcome.

There are two questions there: 1) are good works done without God’s grace meritorious and 2) are they not meritorious because they have the wrong motive.
  1. Actions which are not vivified by grace are never supernaturally meritorious. God gives a supernatural reward to actions done with the help of His grace.
  2. Motive does play a part in this, in that good acts performed by one in the state of grace are without merit if they do not proceed from a supernatural motive. But the threshold requirement is whether someone is in the state of grace in the first place. So one could be in the state of grace, perform a good act, but not refer it to God, and therefore have no supernatural motivation. It would not be meritorious in that case.
Yes it is impossible to be saved without grace. Nature denotes the principle of activity of thing. Since our final beatitude in heaven consists of activity which is beyond our nature, we need a new nature. Grace gives us a new principle of activity, above (supra) our nature – we become capable of supernatural activity.

So natural good works, which are moral, and may even be noble, unselfish, etc. are entirely possible with our human nature. Supernaturally good works, those that merit a supernatural reward, are impossible.

It should be noted, however, that while someone may be able to perform morally good acts without grace – because of our original wound we are unable to do all good required, or persevere in doing good.

What do you think?
VC
What does it mean for an action to be vivified by grace? Why are works that are done without the help of the grace of God not meritorius as opposed to those that are? I am not trying to be argumentative but I’m just trying to delve deeper into the issue. Your posts and struggling along have answered my main doubts about this issue but the details are still somewhat confusing. So the logical conclusion I suppose of the idea that non-grace inspired good works are not meritorius is that a person who has recieved no grace has no merit whatsoever and the Council of Trent seems to say that “Justification is to be derived from the prevenient [Page 33] grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called”. Your thoughts?

thanks
 
Here is the condemed propsition(from the papal bull Unigenitus) that I thought was part of the catholic faith:
  1. The grace of Jesus Christ, which is the efficacious principle of every kind of good, is necessary for every good work; without it, not only is nothing done, but nothing can be done.
I thought that the Church taught that we need the help of the grace of God to do a good work. Also does it not contradict this verse:

John 15:5 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

One can be an Aristotle or Plato by the use of the natural talents & gifts one has been given. One cannot be a St. Thomas without God’s grace as well.​

That is the difference 🙂

No talents & abilities, however great, are of any supernatural value unless they are renewed & sanctified & purified by the grace of Christ - if they are supernaturalised, they are of eternal value, as being Christ’s work in the members of His Body. That is why they are meritorious - the supernaturalised, graced talents of a St. Thomas are St. Thomas’, only because he is united to Christ by grace. The grace of Christ, & the grace of a Christian, are the same thing: the latter is a participation in, & and a manifestation of, the former.

That text is utterly true - it was addressed to a Christian, not to a man outside Christ; it is not talking of those outside Christ.

Hope that helps 🙂

BTW - the 101 propositions condemned in Unigenitus are condemned* in globo* - that is, they are not tagged individually to show in what respect each one is objectionable; so while some are condemned as (for example), “scandalous”, or “rash”, or “heretical”, the reader is not told which proposition is objectionable how; only that all are in various ways objectionable. It is quite possible that some of the propositions can be taken in a perfectly orthodox sense - they are condemned, because, according to the letter of them, they can certainly be taken in a bad one.
 
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