Theology of Concealed Carry

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Theophilus76

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I’m a newbie to the Catholic way of thinking (I start RCIA later this year). After studying Catholic teaching, I’ve come to a realization that several of my ideas and practices need to change. One of these practices is currently under consideration: Concealed Carry.

I live in Texas, have a CHL (Concealed Handgun Licence), and used to carry everywhere. Now I have a moral/theological question: Is my carrying a firearm substituting my faith in God for faith in myself? This is not a 2nd ammendment question, but a deeper, more fundamental one.

If someone attacks me, should I trust that God will deliver me, or fight back? If the attacker kills me, wouldn’t this fulfill my deep desire to enter heaven? If someone attacks a helpless person, my wife, one of my children, etc, should I put my trust in God’s providentail plan that whatever happens will occur to fulfill a divine purpose? Or am I required to kill or mame a violent attacker becuase I’m called to protect the helpless? Could my ending a violent attacker’s life keep them from ever converting to God’s way in prison?

These are new questions I have not ever really considered before. I wouldn’t have thought twice about actively defending my life, or anyone elses. Today, I find myself wondering if I’m supposed to be passive and place all of my trust in God’s plan.
 
I don’t think there is anything wrong with concealed cary in itself. You have a right to proportionate self-defense. Notice I said proportionate. The Church would not have you killing someone for the sake of killing someone, even if they are attacking you. The goal should always be to stop the aggressor and if he dies in the process, that would be an unfortunate but foreseeable side-effect (Doctrine of Double Effect). In the heat of the situation though, one would likely not be culpable if you just think “I need to stop this attacker” and shoot in the heart instead of aiming for the legs out of instinct. Again, proportionate self-defense is a right that the Church recognizes.

That being said, the Church is also against a lot of the excesses of the American gun rights stuff. Pope Innocent XI basically condemned modern “stand your ground” laws in 1679 when he condemned the idea that it is lawful to kill a thief in order “to save a single piece of gold.”
 
At the last supper, the night he was betrayed, the 12 disciples were able to produce 2 swords in the middle of the meal… In todays times it would be two pistols.

Christ put the guy in charge of the church who was going straight for the high priest, but was trying to work his way to him thru his servant.

Just my $0.02. Others will differ… I guarantee it… 🙂

Sacrificing ones self is one thing, failing to defend those we are responsible for is very different.
 
Theophilus76 said:
I’m a newbie to the Catholic way of thinking (I start RCIA later this year). After studying Catholic teaching, I’ve come to a realization that several of my ideas and practices need to change. One of these practices is currently under consideration: Concealed Carry.

I live in Texas, have a CHL (Concealed Handgun Licence), and used to carry everywhere. Now I have a moral/theological question: Is my carrying a firearm substituting my faith in God for faith in myself? This is not a 2nd ammendment question, but a deeper, more fundamental one.

If someone attacks me, should I trust that God will deliver me, or fight back? If the attacker kills me, wouldn’t this fulfill my deep desire to enter heaven? If someone attacks a helpless person, my wife, one of my children, etc, should I put my trust in God’s providentail plan that whatever happens will occur to fulfill a divine purpose? Or am I required to kill or mame a violent attacker becuase I’m called to protect the helpless? Could my ending a violent attacker’s life keep them from ever converting to God’s way in prison?

These are new questions I have not ever really considered before. I wouldn’t have thought twice about actively defending my life, or anyone elses. Today, I find myself wondering if I’m supposed to be passive and place all of my trust in God’s plan.
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Hey, I’m in TX as well, and also have a CHL. You’re perfectly within your rights, even theologically, to use force in protection of yourself or others against criminal wrongdoers. That’s right there in the Catechism.

Be warned though that TX allows you to go further than the Catechism does. Morally you can only use proportionate force, proportionate both to the threat and the circumstances. In TX you can legally shoot someone as they flee after attempting and failing to rob you. Morally speaking you can shoot someone only if, in your judgment, it is the only way to keep yourself and/or someone else safe.
 
sw85 said:
Be warned though that TX allows you to go further than the Catechism does. Morally you can only use proportionate force, proportionate both to the threat and the circumstances. In TX you can legally shoot someone as they flee after attempting and failing to rob you. Morally speaking you can shoot someone only if, in your judgment, it is the only way to keep yourself and/or someone else safe.
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And this is why the rest of the States laugh at Texas 😉.
 
Concealed carry permit holder from KY - My mindset on carrying is that the only way I’m ever pulling out a pistol is to either save my life or the lives of loved ones, family or friends. I’m no Lone Ranger and don’t go looking for trouble. I would go so far as to say that my carrying has caused me to tone things down, knowing that if God forbid things escalated that I could/would resort to self-defense. That is something I want to avoid at all costs.
FWIW, my first thought after hearing about the massacre at Sandy Hook was a burning desire to have been there to protect those babies and their teachers. It hurt knowing I could have done SOMETHING to stop the bloodshed.
I see no moral dilemma at all in carrying a weapon.
 
I’d like to side-step the whole debate over guns in general or even concealed carry and approach this at a more general level.

Trusting in God does not mean taking no reasonable actions to help ourselves and/or others. Does keeping a spare tire in our car indicate that we don’t trust God to deliver us from a flat tire? Does packing a spare diaper for our baby mean that we don’t trust God to deliver us from a dirty diaper while we are out shopping? Of course not.

Placing our trust in God does not mean we just sit there and do nothing and expect God to do everything for us. We still have to put in the work. We can still plan ahead.

Of course, people can go overboard with the planning and perhaps that might be a symptom of a lack of trust on their part. But it is not necessarily so.
 
I’ll put it this way. If wearing a seatbelt while driving is not a sign that one lacks faith in God, then wearing a holstered gun is not such a sign either. A gun is a tool, nothing less, nothing more.
 
Theophilus76 said:
I’m a newbie to the Catholic way of thinking (I start RCIA later this year). After studying Catholic teaching, I’ve come to a realization that several of my ideas and practices need to change. One of these practices is currently under consideration: Concealed Carry.

I live in Texas, have a CHL (Concealed Handgun Licence), and used to carry everywhere. Now I have a moral/theological question: Is my carrying a firearm substituting my faith in God for faith in myself? This is not a 2nd ammendment question, but a deeper, more fundamental one.

If someone attacks me, should I trust that God will deliver me, or fight back? If the attacker kills me, wouldn’t this fulfill my deep desire to enter heaven? If someone attacks a helpless person, my wife, one of my children, etc, should I put my trust in God’s providentail plan that whatever happens will occur to fulfill a divine purpose? Or am I required to kill or mame a violent attacker becuase I’m called to protect the helpless? Could my ending a violent attacker’s life keep them from ever converting to God’s way in prison?

These are new questions I have not ever really considered before. I wouldn’t have thought twice about actively defending my life, or anyone elses. Today, I find myself wondering if I’m supposed to be passive and place all of my trust in God’s plan.
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i can empathize with what you’re going through as i too have these thoughts.(and a double whammy for me is that i’m a police officer having these thoughts thinking maybe i need another career.)

about all i can add to the discussion would be to examine where you are in life regarding a wife and children, etc, and how that may play a role in your decision given your responsibility to protect them and keep them safe…(i guess an argument could also be made for our neighbors in that we are also supposed to look out for their best interests as well…)
 
Joe_5859 said:
I’d like to side-step the whole debate over guns in general or even concealed carry and approach this at a more general level.

Trusting in God does not mean taking no reasonable actions to help ourselves and/or others. Does keeping a spare tire in our car indicate that we don’t trust God to deliver us from a flat tire? Does packing a spare diaper for our baby mean that we don’t trust God to deliver us from a dirty diaper while we are out shopping? Of course not.

Placing our trust in God does not mean we just sit there and do nothing and expect God to do everything for us. We still have to put in the work. We can still plan ahead.

Of course, people can go overboard with the planning and perhaps that might be a symptom of a lack of trust on their part. But it is not necessarily so.
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very well stated, i’d just add that your examples don’t rise to the level of shooting someone dead…

after being involved with ending another person’s life, albeit in a legal manner, a person can certainly begin to question the decisions he made in ending that life…

i agree with everything you said, i’m just saying your examples dont quite hold up given the consequences of the various actions stated as they are compared with killing another human being.
 
hotdiggity said:
very well stated, i’d just add that your examples don’t rise to the level of shooting someone dead…

after being involved with ending another person’s life, albeit in a legal manner, a person can certainly begin to question the decisions he made in ending that life…

i agree with everything you said, i’m just saying your examples dont quite hold up given the consequences of the various actions stated as they are compared with killing another human being.
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Certainly. My examples were much more mundane. I was trying to address the “trust in God” concerns more so than the “defense of life using lethal force” concerns.
 
If I was attacked I would greatly appreciate a CC coming to my assistance. The people I MOST want to carry guns are those like yourself who are building up their conscience… Who are doing their best to do what is right in life! God made man the protector. Thank you for your service in this area. 🙂
 
bitznbitez said:
At the last supper, the night he was betrayed, the 12 disciples were able to produce 2 swords in the middle of the meal… In todays times it would be two pistols.

Christ put the guy in charge of the church who was going straight for the high priest, but was trying to work his way to him thru his servant.

Just my $0.02. Others will differ… I guarantee it… 🙂

Sacrificing ones self is one thing, failing to defend those we are responsible for is very different.
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You are leaving out some details. John 18:11
 
Did you hear about the woman who’s home was caught in flood? The river split and surrounded her home. She was a Holy person & cried out to God, “Please save me lord!” The wall of a barn floated by. She thought I could lay on that and float to the shore, but she trusted God to save her. Later as the waters rose she moved to a 2nd story window to watch as a boater approached. They tried to rescue her but she waved them on thinking…God will save me. Finally as she was forced to climb up onto the roof as the waters rose. A news helicopter hovered just above her. They encouraged her to climb in, but she refused. Running out of gas they were forced to leave her. After the woman died, and went to Heaven she asked God, “Why didn’t you hear my prayers, and save me?” God answered, “What? I sent a raft, a boat, and a helicopter!”
 
Regina_Love said:
Did you hear about the woman who’s home was caught in flood? The river split and surrounded her home. She was a Holy person & cried out to God, “Please save me lord!” The wall of a barn floated by. She thought I could lay on that and float to the shore, but she trusted God to save her. Later as the waters rose she moved to a 2nd story window to watch as a boater approached. They tried to rescue her but she waved them on thinking…God will save me. Finally as she was forced to climb up onto the roof as the waters rose. A news helicopter hovered just above her. They encouraged her to climb in, but she refused. Running out of gas they were forced to leave her. After the woman died, and went to Heaven she asked God, “Why didn’t you hear my prayers, and save me?” God answered, “What? I sent a raft, a boat, and a helicopter!”
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Right, OR God answered “I sent my only begotten Son, welcome to Heaven.”
 
Check out the St. Gabriel Possenti Society - possentisociety.com/.

I became pro-gun many years ago after I was attacked. I had one chance to grab the gun - but I knew nothing about handguns. Later, when I was talking with the police, I told them I didn’t try to grab the gun because I didn’t know if the safety was on or off, and if on, I didn’t know how to take it off the safety. He just stared at me and said, “It was a revolver - revolvers don’t have a safety.”

After that, I decided I should learn a lot more about guns of all kinds. I’m no expert, but I know more than I did.

Anyway - I approve of concealed carry, even tho I don’t do it now. I found out recently that we’re an open carry state, but few people avail themselves of that privilege.
 
I have a strong feeling that there is a large sign by the Pearly Gates clearly stating - NO GUNS ALLOWED IN HEAVEN - BY ORDER OF THE MANAGEMENT.

ps. And it’s no use trying to conceal them either! 👍
 
Section 2263 of the Catechism of the Church states:
The legitimate defence of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defence can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor; The one is intended, the other is not”.

Section 2264 of the Catechism of the Church states:
Love towards oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow.

The Church does not have an official position on gun ownership, other than that the state has a duty to regulate the production and sale of arms (Section 2316 of the Catechism).

So I think you are okay with carrying a gun as long it is for self defence and defence of your loved ones, which is a legitimate purpose.
 
This is good stuff. The comments from some of you are things I’ve never considered before. I certainly would not expect God to miraculously deliver me from a flat tire or auto accident without a spare tire or seatbelt. I have a responsibilty to prepare for probable emergencies, and then maintain that level of preparedness not only for my safety, but my family, too. Also, the comments about proportionate force resonate with me becuase they are more restrained than TX law allows.

After reading these comments and considering everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut so far, I think I may have confused the topic of Trust-in-God with another: Obligation-to-Protect. Think about when violent injustice occurs, the God-given emotion of anger wells up and calls a person to immediate action; as if it were instinctual. A mother will respond to protect her children against someone who is intent on kidnapping that mother’s child. A husband will respond to protect his wife from would-be rapists. Perhaps this is where the idea of ‘proportionate’ response enters. One can go overboard if the response exceeds protecting the innocent/defensless and carries over into assulting the original attacker out of retribution. This type of response would be similar of other emergencies, too - someone dangling from a bridge in terror, or a person with a bone sticking out of their skin screaming in pain - something inside us will move us to immediate action; the morality of this response is not in question. Of course it’s the right thing to do. In fact, it would be wrong to sit there and do nothing.

After thinking this through, one’s reaction to injustice is very strong, almost as if it comes from another place within one’s brain. When extreem emergencies occur, we will automatically use all the tools we have in our control to alleviate the needless hurting. In the event of a violent attack, it must stop immediately. My trust in God’s deliverace from evil may have more to do with the aftermath of such a confrontation (dispaire, doubting, depression, retribution) than it has to do with the confrontation itself.
 
Mount_Carmel said:
I have a strong feeling that there is a large sign by the Pearly Gates clearly stating - NO GUNS ALLOWED IN HEAVEN - BY ORDER OF THE MANAGEMENT.

ps. And it’s no use trying to conceal them either! 👍
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Probably not.

Heaven won’t need a sign. Everyone there is perfect. No sin. No need for guns. 👍

When that happens here on earth, I will gladly give up my concealed carry permit.
 
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