Theology of Concealed Carry

[TimothyH]

At the last supper, the night he was betrayed, the 12 disciples were able to produce 2 swords in the middle of the meal… In todays times it would be two pistols.

Christ put the guy in charge of the church who was going straight for the high priest, but was trying to work his way to him thru his servant.

Just my $0.02. Others will differ… I guarantee it…

Sacrificing ones self is one thing, failing to defend those we are responsible for is very different.

The two swords in the Bible are the weapons of the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Indeed, the word of God is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

***Then I saw the heavens opened, and there was a white horse; its rider was called “Faithful and True.” Out of his mouth came a sharp sword *to strike the nations. (Revelation 19:5,11)

The weapons are the word of God, not real weapons.

-Tim-

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

At the last supper, the night he was betrayed, the 12 disciples were able to produce 2 swords in the middle of the meal… In todays times it would be two pistols.

Christ put the guy in charge of the church who was going straight for the high priest, but was trying to work his way to him thru his servant.

Just my $0.02. Others will differ… I guarantee it…

Sacrificing ones self is one thing, failing to defend those we are responsible for is very different.

Chrys., Hom. lxxxiv: So Luke relates, the Lord had said to His disciples at supper, “He that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one;” [Luke 22:36] and the disciples answered, “Lo, here are two swords.”

It was natural that there should be swords there for the paschal lamb which they had been eating. Hearing then that the pursuers were coming to apprehend Christ, when they went out from supper they took these swords, as though to fight in defence of their Master against His pursuers.

 

[sedonaman]

…
Or am I required to kill or mame a violent attacker becuase I’m called to protect the helpless?
…

You should be aware of what Dr. Lester Jackson calls “a disturbing trend”. He claims the intent is to ensure occupational safety for violent criminals.

The recent shooting of a robber by a pharmacist and the pharmacist’s subsequent prosecution highlights a disturbing trend of turning criminals into victims.

Read the rest here “The Elite Ruling Class War Against Victims: Assuring Occupational Safety for Violent Criminals”
By Lester Jackson, Ph.D., September 23rd, 2011
homicidesurvivors.com/2011/09/25/the-elite-ruling-class-war-against-victims.aspx?view=threaded

 

[tabycat]

Did you hear about the woman who’s home was caught in flood? The river split and surrounded her home. She was a Holy person & cried out to God, “Please save me lord!” The wall of a barn floated by. She thought I could lay on that and float to the shore, but she trusted God to save her. Later as the waters rose she moved to a 2nd story window to watch as a boater approached. They tried to rescue her but she waved them on thinking…God will save me. Finally as she was forced to climb up onto the roof as the waters rose. A news helicopter hovered just above her. They encouraged her to climb in, but she refused. Running out of gas they were forced to leave her. After the woman died, and went to Heaven she asked God, “Why didn’t you hear my prayers, and save me?” God answered, “What? I sent a raft, a boat, and a helicopter!”

I know the story in a slightly different version that had a row boat, moter boat, ship, and a helicopter. Same ending through.

 

[bitznbitez]

The two swords in the Bible are the weapons of the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Indeed, the word of God is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

***Then I saw the heavens opened, and there was a white horse; its rider was called “Faithful and True.” Out of his mouth came a sharp sword ***to strike the nations. (Revelation 19:5,11)

The weapons are the word of God, not real weapons.

-Tim-

So did Peter cut off the high priests servants ear with the Old Testament or did he use the New Testament to do that ?

I fully expect there are other interpretations to why the had the swords in the first place, and the wisdom of Peter going after the High Priest with one of them.

But insisting they were not swords …

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So did Peter cut off the high priests servants ear with the Old Testament or did he use the New Testament to do that ?

I fully expect there are other interpretations to why the had the swords in the first place, and the wisdom of Peter going after the High Priest with one of them.

But insisting they were not swords …

Ver. 38.—And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. They did not understand the mind and words of Christ clearly. He did not mean that they should buy swords, but He wished to show them the impending danger. Christ did not explain His meaning to the Apostles, but concealed it, saying, “It is enough,” meaning that Peter and the other Apostles might carry these swords, and even cut off Malchus’ ear, which He Himself afterwards restored and healed, showing that He was not compelled by force, but was urged by love, willingly and freely to suffer and die. Some think that they were not military swords, but rather large butchers’ knives, which the apostles used for the slaughtering, sacrificing, and disjointing of the Paschal Lamb. So S. Chrysostom, from whom I have said more on Matt. xxvii.

-St. Chrysostom

 

[SubjectVerb]

Probably not.

Heaven won’t need a sign. Everyone there is perfect. No sin. No need for guns.

When that happens here on earth, I will gladly give up my concealed carry permit.

Are you telling me that there are no shooting ranges in heaven? That’s like telling me there is no beer!

 

[Bonnie]

Are you telling me that there are no shooting ranges in heaven? That’s like telling me there is no beer!

If there are shooting ranges, maybe I’ll finally be able to hit the bullseye! :bounce:

 

[bitznbitez]

“And there was war in Heaven. Michael and his angels fought against…”

There was whole lot of fighting at one point in heaven. St. Michael the Archangel led the loyalists against the rebels. While heaven is cordoned off now, the battle rages still in other territory until the end.

I’ve always wondered where they plan on keeping the implements of war once all is forever finished. And someone has to do some practicing right now to stay sharp with em

 

[constantconvert]

I’m Catholic, and I have a concealed carry license. In the words of the old Arab Proverb, “Trust God, but tie your camel to a tree.”

 

[Mount_Carmel]

constantconvert - There arn’t many trees in the desert - the Arab word translates as ‘tie’ or ‘tether’, or more often ‘hobble’ {tying legs together].

I am off to Sunday morning Mass in a few hours, without a gun, and I will bet you my pension that no one else there will have a gun, and that there will be no incident involving guns. But then here in the UK and most of Western Europe we ride a hoss/camel that is mostly of a different hue/culture.

 

[Fairwinds]

…
If someone attacks a helpless person, my wife, one of my children, etc, should I put my trust in God’s providentail plan that whatever happens will occur to fulfill a divine purpose? Or am I required to kill or mame a violent attacker becuase I’m called to protect the helpless? Could my ending a violent attacker’s life keep them from ever converting to God’s way in prison…

anyone who’d stand by and watch his or her kids be attacked and do nothing is not fit to be a parent.

you can martyr yourself, don’t martyr your kids.

 

[mwncheesehead]

I’m a newbie to the Catholic way of thinking (I start RCIA later this year). After studying Catholic teaching, I’ve come to a realization that several of my ideas and practices need to change. One of these practices is currently under consideration: Concealed Carry.

I live in Texas, have a CHL (Concealed Handgun Licence), and used to carry everywhere. Now I have a moral/theological question: Is my carrying a firearm substituting my faith in God for faith in myself? This is not a 2nd ammendment question, but a deeper, more fundamental one.

If someone attacks me, should I trust that God will deliver me, or fight back? If the attacker kills me, wouldn’t this fulfill my deep desire to enter heaven? If someone attacks a helpless person, my wife, one of my children, etc, should I put my trust in God’s providentail plan that whatever happens will occur to fulfill a divine purpose? Or am I required to kill or mame a violent attacker becuase I’m called to protect the helpless? Could my ending a violent attacker’s life keep them from ever converting to God’s way in prison?

These are new questions I have not ever really considered before. I wouldn’t have thought twice about actively defending my life, or anyone elses. Today, I find myself wondering if I’m supposed to be passive and place all of my trust in God’s plan.

Of course you protect yourself with concealed carry; this is one of the means God’s given you to protect yourself…by legal firearms ownership. Also, just because you are killed by someone, doesn’t mean you’re necessarily a martyr; that comes from dying for the faith itself.

Ever heard the story of the guy who was drowning and a boat comes by to save him and he says, “No, God said he was going to save me; I don’t need your boat.” Later a helicopter comes along to save him and he tells the pilot, “No, God said he was going to save me; I don’t need your helicopter.” Again, a yacht passes by to come save him, and again he says, “No, God said he was going to save me; I don’t need your yacht.” The guy drowns. Moral of the story is God sends us “things” and if you are just hoping He’ll shield you from any bullet as you walk down the street, you could be disappointed. God puts people, things, and circumstances in our lives for a reason.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

Yup, in the US with so many folks already packing heat, I might well carry and own an example or two,

BUT as a personal habit unless I lived in some sort of latter day Tombstone I would draw a line at taking one into church.

 

[Fairwinds]

Yup, in the US with so many folks already packing heat, I might well carry and own an example or two,

BUT as a personal habit unless I lived in some sort of latter day Tombstone I would draw a line at taking one into church.

the wild west fetish bothers me too, and I’m totally unimpressed with the safe gun handling practices of 90% of fellow gun owners.

 

[vz71]

I have a strong feeling that there is a large sign by the Pearly Gates clearly stating - NO GUNS ALLOWED IN HEAVEN - BY ORDER OF THE MANAGEMENT.

ps. And it’s no use trying to conceal them either!

If there is a need to protect oneself with a gun, there is a pretty good argument to be made that you are not in heaven.

Not being in heaven, I am pretty sure God will appreciate my need to be armed and ready to defend my family against an attack.

 

[Theophilus76]

Do priests carry a concealed fire arm outside the building? Do they have one in their car or truck? This is for personal defense purposes, not hunting.Would clergy ever join an armed movement to overthrow an oppressive government?

 

[bsroufek]

One thought, along the proportional defense idea, is that you could WOUND them rather than kill them, if possible.

 

[Fairwinds]

One thought, along the proportional defense idea, is that you could WOUND them rather than kill them, if possible.

as a lawyer, I can tell you that would be a horrible idea. valid use of firearms = deadly force was necessary. shooting to wound someone shows that deadly force wasn’t necessary.

 

[Rau]

as a lawyer, I can tell you that would be a horrible idea. valid use of firearms = deadly force was necessary. shooting to wound someone shows that deadly force wasn’t necessary.

While deadly force may be acceptable, and proportional, it is not necessarily required. An attacker can be incapacitated with a shot or two that does not kill. Most of us lack the skill to deliver such a shot.