Theology of Polygamy

[StJeanneDArc]

I’ve asked this question in previous threads, but I’ve yet to see the answer.

What are the theological reasons for polygamy in Islam?

So far I’ve only seen pragmatic reasons (i.e. not enough men, women unable to take care of themselves, etc.). There must be some developed theology behind it. Would any of the Muslim posters care to comment on this?

 

[hawk]

StJeanneDArc:

I’ve asked this question in previous threads, but I’ve yet to see the answer.

What are the theological reasons for polygamy in Islam?

So far I’ve only seen pragmatic reasons (i.e. not enough men, women unable to take care of themselves, etc.). There must be some developed theology behind it. Would any of the Muslim posters care to comment on this?

God created adam and eve, and then Three other wives he decided we didnt need to know about

 

[Maranatha]

Marriage between one man and one woman for the purpose of procreation fulfills the dignity of the each individual. I don’t see how polygamy comes close to the same. It is moral shot fall of the Islamic religion.

I would like to see a response as well.

 

[jcaz]

I’m sure that many Muslims, myself included (when i get the time), can post a detailed response to this.

But for now, I warn myself firstly and you all secondly, with the fear of your Creator. Do not speak against Him things you do not know.

originaly posted by maranatha
I don’t see how polygamy comes close to the same. It is moral shot fall of the Islamic religion.

One needs to be very careful about what you say. It would be advisible for Christians to look at their Bible regarding polygamy before discussing how it is a “moral shot fall.”

How many BIBLICAL prophets practiced polygamy? How many? Were the prophets not the BEST representations of character? Yes, all humans can make mistakes. But so many Biblical prophets participated in polygamy. Now ask, are you better than the prophets that God sent? Is your character better than them?

Now, the catechism speaks negatively about polygamy, but nowhere does it use evidence. It was the sunnah of the old prophets to participate in polygamy. So if one comes and says it is no longer allowed, show me the evidence where Jesus, peace be upon him, abrogated this. And you will not find this evidence. All you have is a church changing the religion to make it more palatable to people.

Same concept for where PAUL himself tells women that they CANNOT speak in church, that if they have a question, go home and ask their husbands. This is YOUR BIBLE, not mine. But do Catholics follow this. No. Why? Because that definately is not palatable in a new, feminist world. Paul says women must have their hair covered while in church. Same thing goes here. So the church, starting with Paul and his changing the message of Jesus, has always been liberalizing the true message in an effort to make the religion more palatable to people.

Sorry, I got off topic there as I went along. I will try to respond with the wisdoms of polygamy.

 

[hawk]

jcaz:

How many BIBLICAL prophets practiced polygamy? How many? Were the prophets not the BEST representations of character? Yes, all humans can make mistakes. But so many Biblical prophets participated in polygamy. Now ask, are you better than the prophets that God sent? Is your character better than them?

Jcaz,

In Christianity we believe the prophets sinned, and repented.
Islam says all prophets are without sin, baselessly.

Now the argument against polygamy is simple, and is echoed in the Quran when it says -YOU CANNOT BE FAIR TO MORE THAN ONE WOMAN.

Thus islamically too, polygamy is rejected.

It is out of the hardness of their hearts that muslims cling to this shameful custom.

Now, the catechism speaks negatively about polygamy, but nowhere does it use evidence. It was the sunnah of the old prophets to participate in polygamy. So if one comes and says it is no longer allowed, show me the evidence where Jesus, peace be upon him, abrogated this. And you will not find this evidence. All you have is a church changing the religion to make it more palatable to people.

Evidence, did God create Adam, Eve and 3 other wives for Adam?

Like everything else though, the Truth is revealed by the Spirit of God.

Same concept for where PAUL himself tells women that they CANNOT speak in church, that if they have a question, go home and ask their husbands. This is YOUR BIBLE, not mine. But do Catholics follow this. No. Why? Because that definately is not palatable in a new, feminist world. Paul says women must have their hair covered while in church. Same thing goes here. So the church, starting with Paul and his changing the message of Jesus, has always been liberalizing the true message in an effort to make the religion more palatable to people.

Sorry, I got off topic there as I went along. I will try to respond with the wisdoms of polygamy.

Women cannot speak is directed to a specific Church and women in that church, where a particular woman was creating problems, by no means is it to be interpretted as all women being told to keep quiet.

 

[hawk]

4:129
**
Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women**, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

combined with

YUSUFALI: If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four;** but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one**, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

 

[jcaz]

Hawk, you once again show your ignorance of Islaam

The prophet sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallama said, “Every son of Adam is a sinner, and the best of sinners are those who repent.”

To suggest that the polygamy of the prophets was sinful is downright blasphemy. The catholic church does not even teach this.

You showed no evidence saying that polygamy is wrong according to the Bible. Rather, i showed you where prophets had multiple wives. This IS evidence. Now, if you could show me where it is said, in the Bible, that those prophets were wrong, that they were sinful for having multiple wives, then my “evidence” would have been refuted. But you cannot show that; and to “bank” on the fact that “all people, including prophets, are sinners, and this must have been a sin” is a pie in sky answer.

 

[hawk]

jcaz:

Hawk, you once again show your ignorance of Islaam

The prophet sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallama said, “Every son of Adam is a sinner, and the best of sinners are those who repent.”

To suggest that the polygamy of the prophets was sinful is downright blasphemy. The catholic church does not even teach this.

You showed no evidence saying that polygamy is wrong according to the Bible. Rather, i showed you where prophets had multiple wives. This IS evidence. Now, if you could show me where it is said, in the Bible, that those prophets were wrong, that they were sinful for having multiple wives, then my “evidence” would have been refuted. But you cannot show that; and to “bank” on the fact that “all people, including prophets, are sinners, and this must have been a sin” is a pie in sky answer.

I didnt say that they were sinning, I am only pointing out that they were sinners, but since we agree on that, its fine.

Now why it is a sin is simple, because Man and Woman are created

“And The Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which The Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh” (Genesis 2:21-24 KJV)

“For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.” (Ephesians 5:29-32 KJV)

** It is a postive affirmation, that 2 people are meant to be joined in Holy Matrimony, to the exclusion of all others**

It does not say that 3 shall become one flesh, nor does it say 4 shall become one flesh.

This is the same way that Christ loves the Church, ie. us.

 

[hawk]

jcaz:

Hawk, you once again show your ignorance of Islaam

The prophet sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallama said, “Every son of Adam is a sinner, and the best of sinners are those who repent.”

To suggest that the polygamy of the prophets was sinful is downright blasphemy. The catholic church does not even teach this.

The simple Truth is that I cannot say that it is right for me, because it was right for them!

And then again, I am not in a position to judge whether they were sinning, since this is only the domain of Allah(swt)

All I know is that it is not right for me, as defined by the Truth of the Scripture, including the Quran I might add

 

[jcaz]

NO where does it say polygamy is haraam. Rather THE MESSESNGERS OF GOD PARTICIPATED IN THIS PRACTICE.

Do NOT say they were sinning in this regard. Even the Catholic church does NOT say this. So if they were not sinning, please show me where Jesus abrogated this and stated that it is now a sin.

You cannot. And this is where you are stuck. Allaah allowed it. His prophets practiced it. So for anyone to say it is wrong, the burden of evidence is upon them.

The Quraan does not say it is not allowed. Your comment on justice towards the wives is incorrect. You know this. But we will respond insha Allaah.

 

[hawk]

jcaz:

NO where does it say polygamy is haraam. Rather THE MESSESNGERS OF GOD PARTICIPATED IN THIS PRACTICE.

Do NOT say they were sinning in this regard. Even the Catholic church does NOT say this. So if they were not sinning, please show me where Jesus abrogated this and stated that it is now a sin.

You cannot. And this is where you are stuck. Allaah allowed it. His prophets practiced it. So for anyone to say it is wrong, the burden of evidence is upon them.

You would be quite right, but jesus didnt condemn abortion, yet we know it to be a sin.

So your faulty logic cannot work

The Quraan does not say it is not allowed. Your comment on justice towards the wives is incorrect. You know this. But we will respond insha Allaah.

What I do know is that out of the hardness of their hearts muslims will not give up this ugly practice.

It is plain for anyone to see in the Quran, and if nothing else, it is certainly makhroo.

Once again, Hashish is not haraam, not in the Quran.

Here specifically there are verses talking about it being haraam, if you wish to see it, but it cannot be interpretted as such, since it would make the Prophet(pbuh) a sinner, and his sunnah would be questionable.

But then anyone who says that a fly carries a disease in one wing, and a cure in another, or who says spit three times on the left to drive the shayteen away is questionable.

 

[jcaz]

originally posted by hawk
You would be quite right, but jesus didnt condemn abortion, yet we know it to be a sin.

Are you serious? Is that the best response you can muster?

Are you serious?!?

We KNOW abortion is a sin because abortion is taking a life. And according to both Catholicism and Islaam, Murder is haraam.

So your faulty logic cannot work

Are you serious?

C’mon hawk. You ARE smarter than this. Because you could not answer my question and show evidence for your statements, you ran in another direction and dug a hole for yourself.

muslims will not give up this ugly practice.

Ugly practice. So the prophets, who were sent by God, chosen to guide their people, participated in “ugly practices.” Hawk, are you a catholic? Again, you are stepping beyond what the Catholic church herself says. So watch yourself and fear your Lord. Did God send prophets and have them involve, constantly, in ugly practices?

I repeat:

NO where does it say polygamy is haraam. Rather THE MESSESNGERS OF GOD PARTICIPATED IN THIS PRACTICE.

Do NOT say they were sinning in this regard. Even the Catholic church does NOT say this. So if they were not sinning, please show me where Jesus abrogated this and stated that it is now a sin.

You cannot. And this is where you are stuck. Allaah allowed it. His prophets practiced it. So for anyone to say it is wrong, the burden of evidence is upon them.

 

[hawk]

jcaz:

So watch yourself and fear your Lord. Did God send prophets and have them involve, constantly, in ugly practices?

hmmm…have you heard of temporary marriage?

Allah allegedly allowed it for a while, and shi’i still permit it.

God also allows slavery, and in the Quran sexual slavery,

You are not getting the point, it is an ugly practice, and the spirit of the law testifies to it

As any good lawyer knows, one has to peirce the veil, and uncover the “spirit” of the law.

Arguing Jesus didnt say this and that, is completely pointless, it is apparent in the spirit of Jesus’ law.

And even more evident in the Quran.

God says, from the beginning divorce was not allowed, but out of the hardness of your hearts, moses allowed it.

Really you are trying to defend an indefensible position!

 

[hawk]

The prophet(pbuh) practiced slavery!

Are you going to tell me that slavery is not a sin?



Really jcaz, think, you are still young, and full of zeal. But listen to your heart, and Christ will whisper the Truth to you. (whatever that Truth maybe)

Dont have blind faith, do you think that you would want two wives?

It is an ugly practice, I have lived in a society that has permitted it, and the results are terrible.

A man must care for his children, if he has two wives, he cannot attend to his children properly or his wives. Weak families make weak societies, and weak societies fall behind and collapse.

The west has grown strong from seeking the ultimate Truth of Christ.

Islam decayed, because muslims stayed planted in the mid seventh century.

Now the west is decaying, and islam might well be the temporary saviour of the west, an infusion of honourable and modest people will turn the west back, and eventually everyone will seek the Truth of Christ.

 

[jcaz]

Hawk you still miss the point and avioid the answers. Just amke it simple and say you do not have the answers. So you realize that polygamy is not spoken against in the bible, but then say that you prefer to refrain from it. That is okay as it is your choice.

However, your dislike of polygamy does not mean it goes against Christianity. Your having seen terrible things as a result of polygamy does not mean it goes against the Bible. Your weak arguments do not show it is wrong either.

If you are a Catholic, speak from the Catholic perspective. It is a shame that I have to give you the catholic answer. But the only reason is because you are perhaps afraid of it, and then you go dig a hole for yourself. Stand up, be a man, and say that polygamy is wrong “because the Catholic Church says it is. Period.”

Sure, we can still debate. The bible does not say it is wrong. Prophets practiced it. But at least you stood by your faith. But don’t try to use weak arguments in disproving polygamy when YOUR BIBLE shows prophets engaging in this act, and surely the Prophets were the best of examples. Stand up, and say that yes, there are some beliefs that the Catholic Church has made that are not fully defined in the bible, or that may seem to go against the bible. Admit this, and at least you can save some face. But don’t blindly go trying to prove that the Bible is against polygamy when it cleary is not.

 

[hawk]

jcaz:

Hawk you still miss the point and avioid the answers. Just amke it simple and say you do not have the answers. So you realize that polygamy is not spoken against in the bible, but then say that you prefer to refrain from it. That is okay as it is your choice.

However, your dislike of polygamy does not mean it goes against Christianity. Your having seen terrible things as a result of polygamy does not mean it goes against the Bible. Your weak arguments do not show it is wrong either.

If you are a Catholic, speak from the Catholic perspective. It is a shame that I have to give you the catholic answer. But the only reason is because you are perhaps afraid of it, and then you go dig a hole for yourself. Stand up, be a man, and say that polygamy is wrong “because the Catholic Church says it is. Period.”

Sure, we can still debate. The bible does not say it is wrong. Prophets practiced it. But at least you stood by your faith. But don’t try to use weak arguments in disproving polygamy when YOUR BIBLE shows prophets engaging in this act, and surely the Prophets were the best of examples. Stand up, and say that yes, there are some beliefs that the Catholic Church has made that are not fully defined in the bible, or that may seem to go against the bible. Admit this, and at least you can save some face. But don’t blindly go trying to prove that the Bible is against polygamy when it cleary is not.

Jcaz,

you have not addressed any of my points, I will not post if you do not address the points.

I have pointed out to you, that the prophets practiced slavery, are you going to tell me that slavery is therefore not a shameful ugly act?

In the same way they did practice polygamy, but the Quran openly speaks against it, by saying you cannot be fair to more than one woman, and the Bible openly says that marriage is between 2 people, and not 4.

You have not pointed to any scripture for your support, I do not make this claim because “the church says so”, no matter how hard you would like to portray it that way.

Jcaz this is my last post, since it should be apparent to you and all the readers that I have more than made my case.

Unless you can actually refute my evidence.

By saying that slavery is not evil and not a sin.

Because your entire case rests on “the prophets did it, so it is good enough for me.”

which I have point is illogical-

They all kept slaves too, and in some cases sexual slaves.

Is this good enough for you?

And here I have given you verses, that say that marriage is between 2, who become 1 flesh.

To me this is the equivalent of saying polygamy is not allowed.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam everyone;

For the theological reasons behind polygamy, I suggest reading this thorough article .

A lot of people when they hear Islam and polygamy think that a Muslim can go out and pick-up up to four wives; just like he does when shoping.

What most people do not realize is that while Polygamy is a religious right, it is not however a religious duty, by this, I mean that if a Muslim (already married) asks me for the hand of my daughter, it is not (praises to Allah) a duty on me to marry her to him. I, too, love my daughter and I will not jeopardize her future by marrying her to a married man and have her share him with another woman.

Usually, the first thing Muslim people do when someone approaches them for the hand of their daughter, sister, or relative, is to check (by check, I mean a real and thorough investigation) if that person is married; if it is the case, chances he will be asked to look somewhere else. That is the reason why polygamy, while being divinely approved under certain conditions, is not wide spread as some might think.

Usually the investigation undertaken is a deep one and involves a lot of the members of the family and it should determine (apart from him not being married) if he is suitable as far as good manners and right conduct are concerned, we most stress on his observance to his religious duties. A religious person who fears Allah (SWT) -even if he does not like our daughter after while for some reason- will treat her justly to please Allah (SWT).

In the west there are places (and growing in number) where men go to “shop” for women and women for men (no offence needed and everyone knows what I am talking about). As a result, families are chattering, birth rates are decreasing, divorces are increasing, single women numbers are on the rise and children pay the price; the society as a whole is diving quickly and surely into immorality and to its end.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[hawk]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam everyone;

For the theological reasons behind polygamy, I suggest reading this thorough article .

A lot of people when they hear Islam and polygamy think that a Muslim can go out and pick-up up to four wives; just like he does when shoping.

What most people do not realize is that while Polygamy is a religious right, it is not however a religious duty, by this, I mean that if a Muslim (already married) asks me for the hand of my daughter, it is not (praises to Allah) a duty on me to marry her to him. I, too, love my daughter and I will not jeopardize her future by marrying her to a married man and have her share him with another woman.

I agree completely with this, however it is my belief that the potential for abuse of this right exists, and it is often abused, especially in poorer uneducated sections of society.

Usually, the first thing Muslim people do when someone approaches them for the hand of their daughter, sister, or relative, is to check (by check, I mean a real and thorough investigation) if that person is married; if it is the case, chances he will be asked to look somewhere else. That is the reason why polygamy, while being divinely approved under certain conditions, is not wide spread as some might think.

Usually the investigation undertaken is a deep one and involves a lot of the members of the family and it should determine (apart from him not being married) if he is suitable as far as good manners and right conduct are concerned, we most stress on his observance to his religious duties. A religious person who fears Allah (SWT) -even if he does not like our daughter after while for some reason- will treat her justly to please Allah (SWT).

Once again I would have to agree with this, however, there are often the cases gone bad, a pakistani friend, so beautiful, was divorced because she miscarried twice.

In pakistan, polygamy isnt really a very popular option, but she has received many proposals from arab men, where she lives in the gulf.

In the west there are places (and growing in number) where men go to “shop” for women and women for men (no offence needed and everyone knows what I am talking about). As a result, families are chattering, birth rates are decreasing, divorces are increasing, single women numbers are on the rise and children pay the price; the society as a whole is diving quickly and surely into immorality and to its end.

Salaam.
Joseph.

True the west is becoming morally bankupt

 

[ronald]

jcaz:

I’m sure that many Muslims, myself included (when i get the time), can post a detailed response to this.

But for now, I warn myself firstly and you all secondly, with the fear of your Creator. Do not speak against Him things you do not know.

One needs to be very careful about what you say. It would be advisible for Christians to look at their Bible regarding polygamy before discussing how it is a “moral shot fall.”

How many BIBLICAL prophets practiced polygamy? How many? Were the prophets not the BEST representations of character? Yes, all humans can make mistakes. But so many Biblical prophets participated in polygamy. Now ask, are you better than the prophets that God sent? Is your character better than them?

Now, the catechism speaks negatively about polygamy, but nowhere does it use evidence. It was the sunnah of the old prophets to participate in polygamy. So if one comes and says it is no longer allowed, show me the evidence where Jesus, peace be upon him, abrogated this. And you will not find this evidence. All you have is a church changing the religion to make it more palatable to people.

Same concept for where PAUL himself tells women that they CANNOT speak in church, that if they have a question, go home and ask their husbands. This is YOUR BIBLE, not mine. But do Catholics follow this. No. Why? Because that definately is not palatable in a new, feminist world. Paul says women must have their hair covered while in church. Same thing goes here. So the church, starting with Paul and his changing the message of Jesus, has always been liberalizing the true message in an effort to make the religion more palatable to people.

Sorry, I got off topic there as I went along. I will try to respond with the wisdoms of polygamy.

many women muslim in Indonesia do the same thing. They dont want to wear jilbab.

Why muslim man has only 4 wives?

 

[Maranatha]

jcaz:

Are you serious? Is that the best response you can muster?

Are you serious?!?

We KNOW abortion is a sin because abortion is taking a life. And according to both Catholicism and Islaam, Murder is haraam.

Yes. Catholicism is serious on this point.

In Mt. 19:4-9

4 5 He said in reply, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’

5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate."

7 6 They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss (her)?”

8 He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 I say to you, 7 whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.”

Since the time of the apostles the Church has taught that Jesus Christ meant that Polygamy is incompatible with his teachings.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1645 "The unity of marriage, distinctly recognized by our Lord, is made clear in the equal personal dignity which must be accorded to man and wife in mutual and unreserved affection."155 Polygamy is contrary to conjugal love which is undivided and exclusive.156

Therefore, polygamy is a moral shortfall and Islam does not live up to moral perfection which is God.