Theology of the Trinity

[EndTimes]

How so? Francis came under a lot of grief claiming God Willed Diversity of Religions…

It connects with this discussion… Why would you not want it shown?

 

[goout]

goout:

How so? Francis came under a lot of grief claiming God Willed Diversity of Religions…

It connects with this discussion… Why would you not want it shown?

You took my comment completely out of context to bring up an issue with Pope Francis.
Please start a different thread.

 

[EndTimes]

You took my comment completely out of context to bring up an issue with Pope Francis. Please start a different thread.

No…

Whenever some people balk at certain comments made during discussion
which do connect in ways with its ongoing flow such as comments on ‘diversity’
common attempts to stifle information already suggests
such as the ‘moving the goalposts’ tactic…
the one who does - just might seek to squash what undermines some of their argument…

 

[goout]

goout:

You took my comment completely out of context to bring up an issue with Pope Francis. Please start a different thread.

No…

Whenever some people balk at certain comments made during discussion
which do connect in ways with its ongoing flow such as comments on ‘diversity’
common attempts to stifle information already suggests
such as the ‘moving the goalposts’ tactic…
the one who does - just might seek to squash what undermines some of their argument…

And you took my comments completely out of context to start a storm over diversity and Pope Francis.
Start a different thread please.

 

[EricPH]

The Trinity has to be very simple.

Jesus prayed that we should be ‘One’ in the same way that he is ‘One’ with the Father.

The Father loves the Son as he loves himself.
The Son loves the Father as he loves himself.

We are commanded to love all our neighbours as we love ourselves.

 

[EndTimes]

And you took my comments completely out of context to start a storm over diversity and Pope Francis.

So you say… Guess What? I disagree… .

it wasn’t I who introduced the topical and controversial notion of “diversity” …

1. You said: " The Church speaks about unity in diversity. "

There’s a batch of false theology peddling a dangerous form of “diversity” …

And yes… .Francis’ comment is deemed false… .

_

 

[goout]

goout:

And you took my comments completely out of context to start a storm over diversity and Pope Francis.

So you say… Guess What? I disagree… .

it wasn’t I who introduced the topical and controversial notion of “diversity” …

1. You said: " The Church speaks about unity in diversity. "

There’s a batch of false theology peddling a dangerous form of “diversity” …

And yes… .Francis’ comment is deemed false… .

_

You will need to look elsewhere for a mud wrestling opponent. Sorry.

 

[tafan2]

Sorry, must have hit the wrong reply button. It was to the OP’s statement that God (the Father) was the judge of the world.

 

[EricPH]

I believe love is Gods being not an action it

God created the heaven and the Earth, and he saw that it was good.

Could it be that God loves all that he is and all that he does with all his heart, soul, mind and soul and strength. God loves all of us as he loves himself.

Could the greatest commandments have had a greatest meaning for God first? Can God love us more than he loves himself?

Jesus prayed that we would be 'One in the same way that he is 'One with the Father. The greatest commandments have to be the greatest way to unite everyone, we can do nothing greater.

 

[OddBird]

So why are attempts at explaining the Trinity continuously ongoing?

I am far from being as qualified as @Wesrock, but I think the issue is not as much explaining the inexplicable as pointing out what the Trinity cannot be if we want to have a correct understanding, for example, of Christology, or Pneumatology, or creation, or redemption, or indeed most of the basic tenets of the Christian faith.

 

[Dovekin]

the issue is not as much explaining the inexplicable as pointing out what the Trinity cannot be if we want to have a correct understanding, for example, of Christology, or Pneumatology, or creation, or redemption, or indeed most of the basic tenets of the Christian faith.

This is the issue in a different way. Each of us has an experience of Christ and has received the Holy Spirit in baptism. We can develop Christology or Pneumatology. When we do that we become convinced that Christ is God, and that the Spirit is God. But with that, we know that there is one God, so these three person must be one God.

This experience is like the relations within Christ. It is not a matter of three Gods, or three parts of God. The father is God, The Son is God and yet not three gods but one. Each is wholly and completely God.

 

[goout]

There are countless things the bible doesn’t spell out. Starting with this:
The bible itself never claims the bible is the sum total of revelation.
The bible itself never even spells out which books make the “bible”. Human beings do that.
So if the bible itself is bound up with human thoughts and authority…why is it odd that the Trinity is also?

You simply disagree with the concept, but your claim that it can’t be so because the bible doesn’t tell you so…that does not hold any water.

 

[EricPH]

I don’t believe that scripture anywhere actually says that God loves us all in comparison to how he loves himself.

Jesus died for me and he died for you. Does this mean Jesus loves us as much as he loves himself?

Just a thought as words seem inadequate.

 

[OddBird]

We should stick to the basic tenets of the Christian faith which are useful to our salvation.

This is not what I said. I said that if we want to understand as well as possible these basic tenets, then we have to try and understand, at least, what the Trinity isn’t (it isn’t three gods; it isn’t three modes of manifestations of the same being; and so on). One of the reason why theologians have spent so much time trying to make sense of what the Trinity is, is because twisting it has huge implications on the rest.

 

[EricPH]

The church still says that the trinity is a mystery.

Jesus prayed that we should be 'One in the same way that he is ‘One’ with the Father.

How does Jesus us want us all to be One? Did Jesus give us an impossible puzzle to sort out? Why would Jesus make our Oneness seem like a mystery?

I don’t want to be One with you like a shamrock, or water, ice and steam. There has to be a greater and more obvious way that Jesus wants us all to be One.

 

[goout]

goout:

There are countless things the bible doesn’t spell out

Yes of course I agree with you. The Christian Bible has always been useful for instruction and contemplation.

So if the bible itself is bound up with human thoughts and authority…why is it odd that the Trinity is also?

It is not odd at all. What is odd is the explanations for what this Trinity is. I don’t believe they hold up under scrutiny.

You simply disagree with the concept, but your claim that it can’t be so because the bible doesn’t tell you so…that does not hold any water.

I don’t SIMPLY disagree with the concept as if I have, with a shrug of my shoulders, disregarded it altogether and waved it away without labored thought.
My point about the bible and apostles not dwelling upon the trinity or the technical language of the trinity found nowhere in scripture wasn’t to eliminate any discussion on the Trinity it was to eliminate any speculative inferences that the bible can shed any solid light on the Nature of this Trinity as concerns God. It does not. What can be found in the bible however is an answer to the question of speculating on Gods nature. The bible says Gods nature is unknowable, ineffable, unfathomable by the mind of man.
Men study scripture, an implication that there is some sort of Trinity relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit arises and so man being made the way God made man speculates upon possible meanings and implications of such a Trinity. This is inevitable. What I am trying to do is make sense of the speculative answers that some men have came up with to perceived problems they believe need answering. I believe the current enforced speculative formula of 1 Godhead comprised of 3 persons is incorrect and can be ultimately reduced to absurdities using the same reasoning that was used to produce the concept to begin with.

You have your beliefs and that’s that. The Trinity is essential Christian doctrine and is well supported using scripture. That information is all over the place. No sense in repeating it again. You disagree and so that’s that.

 

[goout]

Ahhh, my apologies. I obviously misunderstood your line of thinking. I had thought your emphasis was on sticking to the basics tenets of the Christian faith (those things which we all can reasonably agree on as to what they are asking of us and for us). That being said. Again I ask how is it we can know what the Trinity isn’t unless we have some sort of reference of what the Trinity is?
…

You can only go by what you know from human experience.
God self identifies as love. And we know that love is between persons.
You disagree on the definition of love. That’s ok. It takes us in two different directions.

 

[EricPH]

For instance we ask what does it mean to be three of anything?

I think the Trinity is about searching for the greatest good relationship that it is possible to have. I can only find this translation in the NIV Bible; it links together two people, the spirit and the second greatest commandment.

1 Samuel 18 -1
Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself.

You could change the names in this passage and say…

God the Father became one in spirit with God the Son and he loved him as he loves himself.

Search for a greater good relationship.

 

[EndTimes]

The Trinity?

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in his only Son, (JESUS CHRIST) our Lord,
who was conceived by God’s Holy Spirit

 

[goout]

Yes, I cannot say to you that love is not between persons. I must disagree with you though if you are saying that love only exists as that shared between more than one person. I believe I can show this not to be the case.
Firstly do you believe love is volitional and its essence is action between the lover and the beloved therefore cannot exist in the absence of a beloved - another person in this case of love?
Secondly can you give an example of an act that would define itself as love between these persons?

Love is meaningless without a lover and a beloved, so it is between persons. You can’t love a beer, although you might use the hyperbole that way.

God is love, eternally. Because love is between persons by definition, there are persons in God.