Theophan the Recluse?

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Tradycja said:
One thing I liked about the book Path to Salvation by Theophan the Recluse is that he mentions the main goal/mission of parents is to make sure that their children preserve their baptismal grace and not commit any mortal sins. (Okay, okay I don’t remember if he used the word “mortal sin” so please let’s not get into that debate, lol, but that is the essence of what he said.)
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Yes. He has some superb insights for the upbringing of children. It is also possible that he could have used the term mortal sin. That era of the Russian Orthodox Church had some “Latinizations”. 😃
 
No, it’s fair that Mickey brought what he did up in the discussion. I do not expect anyone who is Eastern Orthodox to think otherwise, otherwise they would not be Eastern Orthodox would they? I am merely saddened that such a rift exists. I view the Orthodox and the Catholics as one and the same Church, just separated. It breaks my heart to see honestly. But people will always have their opinions.
I think there are saints from our tradition that view the Orthodox in an unfavorable light in certain respects too. That’s fine - in my view, both sides will be embracing in heaven.
Thanks for the advice on St. Theophan nonetheless, I ordered the title Turning the Heart to God, as I figured it would be a great help to me right now.
May God bless everyone on here. :crossrc:
 
Mickey said:
You do not know me.
I think so. I read volumes of St Theophan’s writings while I was a Byzantine Catholic…but I did not know all of what he had to say.
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You’re right, I don’t know you. But I have read a number of your posts, and perhaps in a rather limited way, do understand where your sympathies lie–you’ve been pretty open and up-front about it, after all. Not knowing you doesn’t preclude that, you know.

I have a great love and respect for St. Theophan, too, and have read quite a lot of his work, but just because he’s been canonized does not make everything he wrote correct.

In light of subsequent posts, including theidler’s I’ll happily back off from my statement about the appropriateness of discussing St. Theophan’s writings here.

I don’t have the work you quoted from, so I don’t know the full context of the statements of his that you quoted. I’ve learned, painfully and with difficulty, over the years, that context is absolutely critical to a full of understanding of isolated quotes. What I will say, though, is,*** based solely on those specific quotes***, it seems to me that St. Theophan had an incredibly over-simplistic and not totally correct view of the Catholic Church and the schism which resulted in the entities now generally referred to as the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.

My comments are meant in no way whatsoever to belittle or demean Theophan and his saintliness/sainthood.
 
Just so there’s no uncertainty about what I’m referring to in my previous post, #25 above, the quotes I’ve referred to are these, from Mickey’s post #11 above:

*In the beginning there was one Church with one, true faith. But temptation set in. The pope of Rome, through sophistries of his own invention, fell away from the Church and the Faith. This constitutes the first degree of the fall into falsehood and darkness.

From the Roman Catholics, the Protestants sprang forth, who, through more sophistries of their own invention, fell into deception and broke away from Roman Catholicism. This constitutes the second degree of the fall into falsehood and darkness.

Later, the Anglican sophistry sprang forth. This constitutes the third degree of the fall into falsehood and darkness.*

St Theophan The Recluse
 
MrPip said:
What I will say, though, is,*** based solely on those specific quotes***, it seems to me that St. Theophan had an incredibly over-simplistic and not totally correct view of the Catholic Church and the schism which resulted in the entities now generally referred to as the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.
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The same can be said for many other Orthodox and Roman Catholic saints and scholars. Truly no one is immune from over-simplification, rash-generalization, and a certain amount of ignorance. I guess we all have to learn to take the good with the bad. Every genius, be they intellectual or spiritual, has ignorance in some areas. What marks a truly humble genius from every other one is their willingness to admit their ignorance.

Personally, again, while I love the writings of St. Theophan, I do disagree with him here. Blaming the Protestant Reformation on the Catholic Church makes about as much sense as blaming Arianism, Pelagianism, Monophysitism, etc. on any one of the Eastern Churches; or, for that matter, blaming any one of the inner-Orthodox schism (Old Believers, “True Orthodox Church,” etc.) on Orthodoxy’s lack of communion with Rome. In reality, what causes such heresies and schisms to persist is human sinfulness - a sinfulness from which we all suffer and against which we all struggle.
 
Mickey said:
In the beginning there was one Church with one, true faith. But temptation set in. The pope of Rome, through sophistries of his own invention, fell away from the Church and the Faith. This constitutes the first degree of the fall into falsehood and darkness.

From the Roman Catholics, the Protestants sprang forth, who, through more sophistries of their own invention, fell into deception and broke away from Roman Catholicism. This constitutes the second degree of the fall into falsehood and darkness.

Later, the Anglican sophistry sprang forth. This constitutes the third degree of the fall into falsehood and darkness.

St Theophan The Recluse
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Well, fortunately, St. Theophan the Recluse does not have the charism of infallibility, so we’re free to disagree with him. 👍

Also, his timeline was off - the “Anglican sophistry” came first, then the rest of the Protestants. :rolleyes:
 
It seems that even the great saints of Catholicism and Orthodoxy alike have not been completely immune from the temptation of triumphalism. This doesn’t make their spiritual teachings less poignant. In many ways it makes them more so. It shows their truly human side. The saints were/are every bit as human as the rest of us. What sets them apart is their determination to continue struggling, despite any personal set-backs and weaknesses they might suffer.
 
theistgal said:
Well, fortunately, St. Theophan the Recluse does not have the charism of infallibility, so we’re free to disagree with him. 👍

Also, his timeline was off - the “Anglican sophistry” came first, then the rest of the Protestants. :rolleyes:
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Actually, the “Anglican sophistry” came about pretty much simultaneously as the Protestant movement on the Continent. Just saying. 😃
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
It seems that even the great saints of Catholicism and Orthodoxy alike have not been completely immune from the temptation of triumphalism. This doesn’t make their spiritual teachings less poignant. In many ways it makes them more so. It shows their truly human side. The saints were/are every bit as human as the rest of us. What sets them apart is their determination to continue struggling, despite any personal set-backs and weaknesses they might suffer.
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Couldn’t agree with you more 👍👍…

Sometimes we should pay more attention to a saint’s spiritual teachings, as they are in conformity with the Magisterium of the Church, than what they write as “history”.
 
ThatOneGuy92 said:
Actually, the “Anglican sophistry” came about pretty much simultaneously as the Protestant movement on the Continent. Just saying. 😃
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I guess the point is that St. Theophan was a great spiritual teacher, not a great historian ;).
 
Mickey said:
It is very good. You will not regret ordering it. 🙂
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Yes, I look greatly forward to it. The quotations I read by him (other than the one you posted), I find so very comforting. I am going to be baptized this year, but have really been struggling with spiritual dryness…in the beginning of my conversion, my prayer life was so intimate and unreal, but now I feel very choked by the world. Theophan seems to address this kind of thing directly.
Are there any other post-Schism saints that you would recommend? I cannot remember if I mentioned which EO writings I have, but this is the list:
The Triads by Gregory Palamas
Little Russian Philokalia of St. Seraphim of Sarov
The Way of a Pilgrim
and Writings from the Philokalia on the Prayer of the Heart

Thanks again 🙂
 
Mickey said:
It is very good. You will not regret ordering it. 🙂
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Actually, it is an excerpted text from his “Path to Salvation” book! So if the OP enjoys this book, he/she’d love “Path to Salvation!” I’m not trying to be a salesman here. 😛
 
theidler said:
Are there any other post-Schism saints that you would recommend? I cannot remember if I mentioned which EO writings I have, but this is the list:
The Triads by Gregory Palamas
Little Russian Philokalia of St. Seraphim of Sarov
The Way of a Pilgrim
and Writings from the Philokalia on the Prayer of the Heart

Thanks again 🙂
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Check out Archimandrite Lazarus Moore’s book “An Extraordinary Peace: St. Seraphim, Flame of Sarov.” I’ve really enjoyed that one. The “Little Russian Philokalia” is very good. You might enjoy “The Philokalia” series itself. Also, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov’s book on the Jesus Prayer is very good (minus a few anti-Western comments). Lev Gillet’s book on the Jesus Prayer is also now considered to be a classic.

As far as spiritual dryness is concerned, even the great saints suffered from that. St. Therese of Lisieux died in a state of immense spiritual dryness and desolation. She’s now considered one of the greatest mystics of the West! So you’re in good company. Just hang in there.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Actually, it is an excerpted text from his “Path to Salvation” book! So if the OP enjoys this book, he/she’d love “Path to Salvation!” I’m not trying to be a salesman here. 😛
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Oh yes, I know…it’s just that “Path to Salvation” is hard to obtain and very expensive… 😦
 
theidler said:
Yes, I look greatly forward to it. The quotations I read by him (other than the one you posted), I find so very comforting. I am going to be baptized this year, but have really been struggling with spiritual dryness…in the beginning of my conversion, my prayer life was so intimate and unreal, but now I feel very choked by the world. Theophan seems to address this kind of thing directly.
Are there any other post-Schism saints that you would recommend? I cannot remember if I mentioned which EO writings I have, but this is the list:
The Triads by Gregory Palamas
Little Russian Philokalia of St. Seraphim of Sarov
The Way of a Pilgrim
and Writings from the Philokalia on the Prayer of the Heart

Thanks again 🙂
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Depends on where your interests lie, to a certain extent. The possibilities are almost endless!

Are you a catechumen in the Roman Catholic Church or in the Eastern Catholic Church? Have you asked your priest/spiritual advisor for recommendations?

Have you read anything by Archbp. Joseph Raya? Check him out! Catherine Doherty? (Are you familiar with Madonna House in Combermere, Ontario?) Great stuff! Dorothy Day? St. Therese of Lisieux? St. John of the Cross? Bl. Teresa of Calcutta? I could go on and on and on, as I’m sure just about everyone else here could, too ;). “So many books, so little time” :D:D
 
MrPip said:
Depends on where your interests lie, to a certain extent. The possibilities are almost endless!

Are you a catechumen in the Roman Catholic Church or in the Eastern Catholic Church? Have you asked your priest/spiritual advisor for recommendations?

Have you read anything by Archbp. Joseph Raya? Check him out! Catherine Doherty? (Are you familiar with Madonna House in Combermere, Ontario?) Great stuff! Dorothy Day? St. Therese of Lisieux? St. John of the Cross? Bl. Teresa of Calcutta? I could go on and on and on, as I’m sure just about everyone else here could, too ;). “So many books, so little time” :D:D
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I am a catechumen in the Latin rite, and have been going through catechesis for going on three years. As for the authors:
Archbishop Joseph Raya - Never heard of him.
Catherine Doherty - Know little about her, but am familiar with Madonna House, yes.
Dorothy Day - Absolutely. I have The Long Loneliness.
St. Therese of Lisieux - Of course! I read The Story of a Soul and own a book of assorted wisdom from her. She is one of my patron saints.
St. John of the Cross - Yes, of course. I own Ascent of Mount Carmel.
Bl. Teresa - If I didn’t know of her, I would be living in a hole in the ground ;). I have a little booklet of her thoughts on various subjects.

Here, I am specifically asking for recommended writings in the Eastern Orthodox tradition. My Catholic section of my library is quite big right now, and I have an ample selection of Protestant writings as well, but my EO section is rather slim.
 
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