Theophan the Recluse?

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MrPip said:
Let me reword it: I’m not interested in arguing with you about it.
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Me neither. Peace to you my brother in Christ.
MrPip said:
We can both, however, discern something of what the other thinks and believes by what we write.
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I think even this is somewhat elusive. Anonymous posters on the internet become filled with ego…get all puffed up…and say things that they perhaps would not say to someone’s face…and I am often guilty of this. ⭕(

I beg your forgiveness.
 
Mickey said:
One of the expressions [St Silouan the Athonite] frequently used was “we must go down before we go up.” That is, we cannot expect to ascend to the heights of glory with Christ unless we are willing first to adopt His voluntary humility. What Christ did, He did sinlessly out of pure love for mankind. In our case, our willingness to humble ourselves is the only appropriate stance before God in view of our sin.
In this vein, he emphasized the life-giving potential of the word given by Christ to St. Silouan: “Keep your mind in hell and despair not.” This paradoxical formulation at once teaches us to live with the awareness of the damnable nature of our sin and to hold fast to the saving power of Christ. A person who “keeps his mind in hell” is ever aware that only one fate is appropriate for his deeds, eternal damnation. This consideration sears humility into his soul, as he finds himself utterly unable to lift his eyes toward the face of God. Yet this very movement of “going down” is motivated by grace, and that same grace enables one to fend off temptations to despondency. One’s wretchedness before God is excruciatingly and unremittingly apparent, and yet in that very moment joy is born into the soul as the supreme love of God is revealed as the vanquisher of sin, rescuing him from the abyss of despair.
orthodoxtapes.org/catalog/st_silouan.html
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Luke 23:32… Was not our heart burning within us, whilst he spoke in this way…?

peace
 
Mickey said:
Me neither. Peace to you my brother in Christ.
I think even this is somewhat elusive. Anonymous posters on the internet become filled with ego…get all puffed up…and say things that they perhaps would not say to someone’s face…and I am often guilty of this. ⭕(

I beg your forgiveness.
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God forgives. (And so do I ;)).

Peace to you, too!
 
MrPip said:
I really likd A Monk of Mt. Athos, (??) which I believe is included in the Sophrony book.
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** Archimandrite Sophrony’s books:**
  • The Undistorted Image: Staretz Silouan, 1866-1938, 1948, 1952. Faith Press, 1958 (ISBN B0007IXVB0).
  • The Monk of Mount Athos: Staretz Silouan 1866-1938, Mowbray, 1973 (ISBN 0264646185). St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1997 (ISBN 091383615X).
  • Wisdom from Mount Athos: The Writings of Staretz Siloan 1866-1938, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1975 (ISBN 0913836176).
  • His Life is Mine, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1977 (ISBN B000B9E2WW). St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1997 (ISBN 0913836338).
  • We Shall See Him As He Is, 1985. Essex, England: Stravropegic Monastery of St. John the Baptist, 1988.
  • Saint Silouan, the Athonite, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press; reprint edition, 1999 (ISBN 0881411957).
  • On Prayer, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1998 (ISBN 0-88141-194-9).
 
Mickey said:
I believe the author is also Archimandrite Sophrony.

His books:
  • The Undistorted Image: Staretz Silouan, 1866-1938, 1948, 1952. Faith Press, 1958 (ISBN B0007IXVB0).
  • The Monk of Mount Athos: Staretz Silouan 1866-1938, Mowbray, 1973 (ISBN 0264646185). St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1997 (ISBN 091383615X).
  • Wisdom from Mount Athos: The Writings of Staretz Siloan 1866-1938, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1975 (ISBN 0913836176).
  • His Life is Mine, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1977 (ISBN B000B9E2WW). St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1997 (ISBN 0913836338).
  • We Shall See Him As He Is, 1985. Essex, England: Stravropegic Monastery of St. John the Baptist, 1988.
  • Saint Silouan, the Athonite, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press; reprint edition, 1999 (ISBN 0881411957).
  • On Prayer, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1998 (ISBN 0-88141-194-9).
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Yes, Archm. Sophrony did author The Monk of Mt. Athos. Turns out the book I meant to refer to is Wisdom From Mount Athos, and not the former one. It’s been a while since I read it (I guess you can tell :D), but if I recall correctly, there was much more of St. Silouan in it than Archimandrite Sophrony, if you know what I mean. Tried reading several of Archm. Sophrony’s other books, but found everything I attempted to be way over my head and far too analytical (not sure that’s the right word, but it’s close enough–I hope :D). So, I always went back to Wisdom From Mount Athos for the spiritual nourishment I needed from St. Silouan. (Sorry for the confusion!)
 
MrPip said:
Yes, Archm. Sophrony did author The Monk of Mt. Athos. Turns out the book I meant to refer to is Wisdom From Mount Athos, and not the former one.
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"Wisdom From Mount Athos" is also by Archimandrite Sophroney. 😃

He was a disciple of St Silouan.
 
Mickey said:
"Wisdom From Mount Athos" is also by Archimandrite Sophroney. 😃

He was a disciple of St Silouan.
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Yes, I know–it says so right on the front of my copy of it ;).

The subtitle is The Writings of Staretz Silouan 1866-1938. So, there’s much more of St. Silouan in it than Archm. Sophrony, which for me is a good thing :D. For some reason, I find St. Silouan himself as he speaks for himself much easier to understand than any of the subsequent writings which analyze and interpret him, trying to make him easier to understand. Unfortunately, it just didn’t work for me 🤷.
 
Wow, what a lot of posts - I got work for a few hours and miss all of this??? 😃
Some remarks then:
  1. Mickey and MrPip - glad you guys are sorted.
  2. Mickey, thanks for more recommendations! I have heard the name of Silouan the Athonite, but haven’t read anything as of yet.
  3. On reunion - I wish to be frank about the issue. My feeling is this: The Orthodox and the Catholics are one and the same Church, separated over what I see as mostly linguistic and political issues. In my own personal view (and please, I beg you to take no offense at it at all) is that the separation of the two causes much torment to Christ. I think the East and the West simply have different ways of looking at the same thing.
Call me ignorant, I just really feel that our separation is a tragedy. To me, and again I confess some ignorance most readily, I do not think that Christ looks at us and says “Well, he recites the filioque, so he’s damned” and vice versa. Christ searches the heart. Both East and West hold to the creeds, we both worship the Trinity, we both confess Christ, we both partake of the Eucharist. Let us rejoice in our similarities rather than bicker over our differences. The differences, to me, are merely interesting and something to learn from. I love the East’s emphasis on hesychasm - I love the West’s mystical imitation of the Passion of Christ. I love the heady scholasticism of the West, and I love the earthy mysticism of the East. It is my view that these men and women who make up the saints of the east and west are all embracing in heaven whilst we bicker and argue below on earth.
Moreover, if anything, I take what Mickey has to say with great consideration and thought - to me, he is on a parallel path, and simply calling over to me with information about what he has found on the way. As far as I am concerned, we walk towards the same goal, though I must admit that I do so undoubtedly much more feebly.
There, got that off my chest. I really hope I didn’t offend anyone:blush: I just felt I had to speak my view of it. I love the Eastern Orthodox, and view them as brethren in Christ. I love my Catholic brothers and sisters equally, and anxiously await my full entrance into communion with them.
  1. Finally, I still think St. Bonaventure is tops when it comes to theologians. I love the Franciscan way of viewing things. His writing is much more fluid and warm compared to Aquinas’…but that’s not to say I don’t celebrate Aquinas’ feast day with gusto (a pint of Guinness and a turkey drumstick:D)!
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Amen. Perhaps that’s why we’re all so tired of it. It’s also why it causes such a great scandal to the rest of the world. If we can’t witness to Christ among one another, how can we witness to the rest of the world? If we can’t be Christ-like to one another, how can we bring Christ to the rest of the world?
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This is more true, and much more important than many realize.

I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them. (John 17:20-23)

Our unity is one of the ways in which the world knows that Jesus is who we claim him to be. Without unity, the world will not know that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity sent by God the Father. Without unity, Jesus is just another man in some ancient book.

Our unity is how the world knows, proof that God loves us!

And for us personally, we are brought to perfection “As one.” One of the ways in which we attain perfection, and hence the ability to enter Heaven, is through our unity as a group, as a single body which is the Body of Christ. Christ had one body, and it is through that body - the Church - that we attain perfection.

With the exception of the agony in the garden and his cries from the cross, Jesus’ prayer for unity is perhaps one of the most passionate and heartfelt of all his prayers and is one of the most dramatic moments in all of Scripture (IMO). I think Jesus prays for unity with good reason. I order to witness to the world and to attain to perfection, we need to maintain unity to the extent that we are able, even if it means putting aside our own will to do the will of another, or simply biting our tongue.

Ours is the only religion where our faith, prayers, good works and suffering can merit the salvation of someone else and we are all in this together. St. Paul understood this clearly and our disunity, not just within east/west relations but within our own rites is worse than many of us realize.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
This is more true, and much more important than many realize.

I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them. (John 17:20-23)

Our unity is one of the ways in which the world knows that Jesus is who we claim him to be. Without unity, the world will not know that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity sent by God the Father. Without unity, Jesus is just another man in some ancient book.

Our unity is how the world knows, proof that God loves us!

And for us personally, we are brought to perfection “As one.” One of the ways in which we attain perfection, and hence the ability to enter Heaven, is through our unity as a group, as a single body which is the Body of Christ. Christ had one body, and it is through that body - the Church - that we attain perfection.

With the exception of the agony in the garden and his cries from the cross, Jesus’ prayer for unity is perhaps one of the most passionate and heartfelt of all his prayers and is one of the most dramatic moments in all of Scripture (IMO). I think Jesus prays for unity with good reason. I order to witness to the world and to attain to perfection, we need to maintain unity to the extent that we are able, even if it means putting aside our own will to do the will of another, or simply biting our tongue.

Ours is the only religion where our faith, prayers, good works and suffering can merit the salvation of someone else and we are all in this together. St. Paul understood this clearly and our disunity, not just within east/west relations but within our own rites is worse than many of us realize.

-Tim-
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Amen friend.
 
MrPip said:
For some reason, I find St. Silouan himself as he speaks for himself much easier to understand than any of the subsequent writings which analyze and interpret him
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I love the writings of the Saint **and **the unique insights that his disciples are able to offer.🙂
 
I think I’ll be ordering some writings by this Silouan fellow. I read this on the Orthodoxwiki:
“Thomas Merton, a twentieth-century Catholic monk, described Silouan as ‘the most authentic monk of the twentieth century.’”
Very interesting.🙂
 
theidler said:
“Thomas Merton, a twentieth-century Catholic monk, described Silouan as ‘the most authentic monk of the twentieth century.’”
Very interesting.🙂
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Don’t get me started on Thomas Merton. :bigyikes:
 
Mickey said:
Don’t get me started on Thomas Merton. :bigyikes:
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Not a big fan I take it? He seems to be viewed with a lot of suspicion within our tradition too. Regardless, Silouan sounds like a good read. I’m going to look into it for sure.👍
 
Mickey said:
Not really.
There is no doubt in my mind that you will be edified by the writings of this Athonite Saint.
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Excellent. I am still reeing a little from the deep theology of Gregory Palamas, so this might be a nice change. 🙂
 
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