There are 2,942 Catholic Denominations, Maybe more

[Syele]

Not really - most Protestant denominations have some sort of “top leader” person - Moderator of the General Council, or President of the National Synod, etc. - a “denomination” would be a specific group of local churches that looks to one particular individual or one particular national committee, regardless of what they call him/them, as the “church spokesman” or the sort of final arbiter of what constitutes “the essential teachings” and so forth.

For example, members of the United Church of Canada look to the Moderator of the General Council of the United Church of Canada to ratify disciplinary policies in their churches and to be their spokesman whenever journalists come around asking about the reaction of “the United Church of Canada” to this or that event in the news or on the world stage, and he is also responsible for creating the materials that are made available when seekers come knocking to ask what the United Church of Canada stands for.

I grew up in non-denominational or inter-denominational churches. So I was less exposed to church hierarchy like you mention. I’ll take your word for it that it’s most denominations. My objection comes with forcing all non-denominational churches to be deemed a separate denomination when their doctrines are too undefined to even have them differing. The church I just left (as an example) because I moved was non-denominational. We had both Calvinists and Arminians in the church and neither group had any problems with the proscribed doctrines of the church (though they occasionally debate one another)! This is because both are allowed, not because “each non-denominational church is different.” It may seem different in one church or another by visiting it… but this is not because of different doctrines, but because of the diverse people attending.

I would agree. Maybe even less, considering the number of local churches that look to “para-church” organizations (such as the David C. Cooke Sunday School) for guidance on disciplinary policy and doctrine, rather than to their head churches or natonal leadership committees.

I figure there are 5-point Arminians 5-point Calvinists and all the possible mixtures of the 5 points. So that should cover the majority of doctrinal differences about big subjects like OSAS or predestination. Then you have to cover a few topics not included in TULIP. I exclude anyone from being protestant that doesn’t believe the basic tenets of Christianity (Like the Trinity for example). Then, I don’t think it’s fair to count stuff like music style as a division since even the Catholics (who consider themselves ONE have differing music styles.) I was being generous with the 100 figure… there are probably less.

Catholics want to make a point about unity to us, I just think their point would go over better (and maybe even convince a few of us) if they refrained from making up their own systems to define people that are not Catholic.

As I mentioned before… The impression I have is that the Catholics who insist on using HUGE figures are not ACTUALLY interested in convincing me or any other protestant that unity with Rome is best or that Sola Scriptura is bad or anything else for that matter.

 

[contramundum7]

And Protestant Churches are governed by Holy Scripture, which Webster won’t recognize as a “single legal and administrative body” but which, for the sake of this discussion is one.

If the Holy Scriptures are governing Protestantism, why r all the Protestant “churches” in disagreement as to what various Scriptures means?

Why do some Protestant churches condone abortion in certain circumstances? And divorce/remarriage?? Why do some believe in infant baptism, some don’t… (etc, etc…).

God is not the author of confusion…

 

[MrS]

If the Holy Scriptures are governing Protestantism, why r all the Protestant “churches” in disagreement as to what various Scriptures means?

Why do some Protestant churches condone abortion in certain circumstances? And divorce/remarriage?? Why do some believe in infant baptism, some don’t… (etc, etc…).

God is not the author of confusion…

Q: If the Holy Spirit is guiding the protestant churches, why is He guiding them into so much division and conflicting theology

A: The Holy Spirit is not divisive… ero it is not the Holy Spirit

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Syele:

Then, I don’t think it’s fair to count stuff like music style as a division since even the Catholics (who consider themselves ONE have differing music styles.)

Um… not. But there is another thread on this.

Syele:

Catholics want to make a point about unity to us, I just think their point would go over better (and maybe even convince a few of us) if they refrained from making up their own systems to define people that are not Catholic.

Strawman. It was Protestants who made up their own systems to define themselves.

Syele:

As I mentioned before… The impression I have is that the Catholics who insist on using HUGE figures are not ACTUALLY interested in convincing me or any other protestant that unity with Rome is best or that Sola Scriptura is bad or anything else for that matter.

Like I said before, this emphasis on methodology and numbers is missing the woods for the trees. Which is the proliferation of divergent doctrines in the sphere of Protestantism.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Syele:

But you do realize, this is not how the protestants (who name their denominations for a specific purpose) define it? in essence you are using your own definition to make a point to protestants who have a different definition.

A definition which is accurate.

Syele:

How will this help convince the protestant that they need more unity?

Do protestants need more unity? Why use the qualifier ‘more’? Is there a line at which enough unity has been reached? If so, where is that line? Who draws that line? Are there sanctions for those protestants who don’t make it to the line? Are they ‘schismatic’ protestants? Or are they reformist protestants? Protestant protestants? What then?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

This is precisely why I hate the 30,000 number often quoted by Catholics. Its reminds me of political ads that spin numbers every which way.

OK. Let’s compromise. How does 29,999.5 sound? (Only kidding.)

 

[obadiah]

I read back earlier that there are 60 Orthodox denominations. I am Orthodox, and can go to any one of those 60 ‘denominations’
and receive the Eucharist, Confess, and anything else we do. If there were 60, then they would not be in communion with each other.
There are several noncanonical Churches out who are not in communion with any body else, and I would consider those outside of Orthodoxy. Maybe an Orthodox version of Protestantism?

 

[Linnyo]

for what it’s worth the church of Scotland says exactly the same creed as the rc church the whole way through yet they are clearly not catholic. What constitutes a denomination? there re baptist, anglican, free, lutheran, ‘ecumenical’, congregational churches round about where I live then there are little groups of independent churches that meet in peoples houses.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

for what it’s worth the church of Scotland says exactly the same creed as the rc church the whole way through yet they are clearly not catholic. What constitutes a denomination? there re baptist, anglican, free, lutheran, ‘ecumenical’, congregational churches round about where I live then there are little groups of independent churches that meet in peoples houses.

I am a little suspicious about excluding the non-denom denoms from the picture. Waddupwidat?

Since they have disaffiliated themselves from the denoms and even if the denoms number themselves as 100, then the non-denoms would have to number themselves as either 1 (which would make them a denom in which case the denoms would number 101) or they would have to number themselves as the number of members in their non-denom denoms (which would be quite a bit higher than 100).

In any case, because of the advent of the non-denom denoms, the number of Protestant denoms at the very least would be greater than 100.

 

[jmcrae]

for what it’s worth the church of Scotland says exactly the same creed as the rc church the whole way through yet they are clearly not catholic.

Obviously not, since they recognize only two of the seven Sacraments.

What constitutes a denomination?

Authority.

Meaning, who they look to for their human leadership, and what they look to for their tradition, which then impacts what they accept as authoritative (which books of the Bible, if any; which Councils of the Church, if any; other traditional statements of faith, Catechisms, any other books or writings that they consider to be authoritative, etc.)

 

[obadiah]

I’ve run into those people before, and when I pointed out to them that their nondenomination was in fact a denomination and Protestant to boot, they vehemently deny it. I would answer, If you are not Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, then by definition it makes you Protestant.

 

[Syele]

A definition which is accurate.

Well Catholics have one definition, the rest of the world has another. I give up.

Do protestants need more unity? Why use the qualifier ‘more’? Is there a line at which enough unity has been reached? If so, where is that line? Who draws that line? Are there sanctions for those protestants who don’t make it to the line? Are they ‘schismatic’ protestants? Or are they reformist protestants? Protestant protestants? What then?

The qualifier more, since you are being nit picky, implied that protestants have SOME unity already.

 

[Syele]

I’ve run into those people before, and when I pointed out to them that their nondenomination was in fact a denomination and Protestant to boot, they vehemently deny it. I would answer, If you are not Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, then by definition it makes you Protestant.

By your personal definition , you mean.

 

[porthos11]

I read back earlier that there are 60 Orthodox denominations. I am Orthodox, and can go to any one of those 60 ‘denominations’
and receive the Eucharist, Confess, and anything else we do. If there were 60, then they would not be in communion with each other.
There are several noncanonical Churches out who are not in communion with any body else, and I would consider those outside of Orthodoxy. Maybe an Orthodox version of Protestantism?

I would not count those 60 as 60. I would count all Orthodox in communion with each other as 1.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

By your personal definition , you mean.

:nope: It is your personal interpretation of his definition that his definition is merely personal.

 

[obadiah]

YEA VERILY THUS SAITH AMEN!!! :banghead: :bounce: :coffeeread: :doh2:

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Syele:

Well Catholics have one definition, the rest of the world has another. I give up.

So noted. You have conceded the point.

Syele:

The qualifier more, since you are being nit picky, implied that protestants have SOME unity already

‘Some’ unity does not make sense. Unity is about being one. ‘Some’ does not apply to being one as it takes ‘all’ to be one, not ‘some’ to be one.

And as for the sideswipe about me being nitpicky, evidently – judging from your reply – I was not nitpicky enough. But wondering if you can try for a modicum of courtesy? Yes? No more nitpicky?

 

[obadiah]

Please be as ’ nit picky’ all you want:thumbsup: we must be specific; That’s the only way we can understand each other.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Please be as ’ nit picky’ all you want:thumbsup: we must be specific; That’s the only way we can understand each other.

Dost thou wisheth to create a monster of myself? Ooooh nitpicky is just such a temptation as to lead me down the garden path. Perhaps to mine own doom.

:bigyikes:

 

[obadiah]

O brother if you only knew me, I am soooo nit picky:extrahappy: :coffeeread: :hypno: :juggle: That I have been working on a translation of:bible1: :bible1: one book of the Bible (from Hebrew into English) for seven years.