There are 2,942 Catholic Denominations, Maybe more

[kell0618]

Interesting article in the Washington Times about the watering down of main-line protestant churches (where are they going? non-denom or out of church altogether).

Eric Svendsen and David A. Barrett are anti-Catholic and for me that ruins their credibility and I stop reading anything that quotes them because the data reflects their need to topple the Church He built. I do not claim that the 30,000 number is accurate, though I can tell you this for absolute certain. All of the Catholics that I know go to one Church in different buildings depending upon where they live. No denomination; One Church. The protestants that I know go to dozens of different churches in dozens of different buildings. Common sense wins over my mind any day when compared to those who are bent on anti-Catholic rhetoric. I will not link to sites by either man mentioned, though a simple google will provide plenty of anti-Catholic sites.

Kelly

 

[rr1213]

ok, despite it being pointed out many times before, 30,000 protestant denominations is misleading, unfair, and downright false. The figure in my thread title is from EXACTLY the same source as the 30,000 denominations number people here keep referring to. If your point is to show protestants are divided, just say so and avoid making yourself look dumb.

• The figure comes from a study by David A Barrett

•          the first figure was 20,780             denominations with some figure about how many there would be in the future coming *from a different source*.

• All the denominations listed are not protestant.
• 8,196 were protestant
• 2,942** of this number were Catholics, 194 Latin-rite,**** 580 are Orthodox and other Catholic (non-Roman) 504**

•          According to Barrett, a "distinct denomination" is ANY division, including style of music, location of church, and other things that really are NOT divisions associated with the standard "denomination".

•          Barrett uses the standard definition of denomination but calls it "traditions."

• **He says there are 21 Protestant “traditions”, 6 marginal Protestant, 4 Catholic (non-Roman), 6 Anglican, 20 mixed pagan and Christian (two of which he deems Catholic), 19 Orthodox, 16 (Roman) Catholic
  **
• Barrett also lists Roman Catholicism and Protestantism on the same level each considered a SINGLE ecclesial tradition.
  I’m not denying that there are divisions among protestants. I’m simply asking you to be honest in your discussions here. If you want to say Protestantism is bad cause it’s divided, fine But stop throwing around meaningless numbers.

You’re point is very well made and accurate.

You’re also beating your head against the wall. There simply HAS to be 30,000+ Protestant denominations. It’s a Catholic thing, Peter has spoken on the matter. Catholic posters here wouldn’t know what to do if there weren’t 30,000 Protestant denominations.

 

[LilyM]

You’re point is very well made and accurate.

You’re also beating your head against the wall. There simply HAS to be 30,000+ Protestant denominations. It’s a Catholic thing, Peter has spoken on the matter. Catholic posters here wouldn’t know what to do if there weren’t 30,000 Protestant denominations.

Well, there aren’t 30,000 Orthodox groupings, we’ve figured out our attitude to them pretty well

 

[kell0618]

You’re point is very well made and accurate.

You’re also beating your head against the wall. There simply HAS to be 30,000+ Protestant denominations. It’s a Catholic thing, Peter has spoken on the matter. Catholic posters here wouldn’t know what to do if there weren’t 30,000 Protestant denominations.

Your sarcasm, though perhaps entertaining to some, creates yawns for me. The Vatican has not spoken on the matter, and frankly could care less how many denominations there are. If you adhere to the information of Eric Svendsen and David Barrett your anti-Catholicism is showing.

 

[JoeyWarren]

You’re point is very well made and accurate.

You’re also beating your head against the wall. There simply HAS to be 30,000+ Protestant denominations. It’s a Catholic thing, Peter has spoken on the matter. Catholic posters here wouldn’t know what to do if there weren’t 30,000 Protestant denominations.

I doubt it is her point, she probably pasted and copied from some other source. The Book in question costs 350.00 new. I don’t think Syele purchased the book and read it herself.

 

[JoeyWarren]

As some one knows someone personally that has read the book and have picked his brain…

**

There are 2,942 Catholic Denominations,

One of the assumptions made by Barrett is that each country that has a Roman Catholic church is it’s own denomination. For some reason he does not apply that same rule to the protestant churches and other non-catholic churches.
Further he treats different rites as denominations, a rule that he does not as well apply to non-catholic churches.
**

 

[rr1213]

As some one knows someone personally that has read the book and have picked his brain…

**One of the assumptions made by Barrett is that each country that has a Roman Catholic church is it’s own denomination. For some reason he does not apply that same rule to the protestant churches and other non-catholic churches.
Further he treats different rites as denominations, a rule that he does not as well apply to non-catholic churches.
**

The point being that the numbers are screwy, both from the Catholic and Protestant standpoint. So, how about both sides stop citing this nonsensical report?

 

[Zooey]

The point being that the numbers are screwy, both from the Catholic and Protestant standpoint. So, how about both sides stop citing this nonsensical report?

Exactly! An unreliable source is an unreliable source.
Clearly, this Barrett is an extremely unreliable source.
There are:shrug: not 30,000 Protestant denominations, & there are not 2900 Catholic denominations.

The problem with Barret, is that he created his own definitions of “Denomination” as it pertains to christians.

Yes, obviously. (For all I know, he could have been hoping that we’d all be fighting over his numbers…There are people who hate Christians enough to pull that sort of trick…)

 

[rr1213]

Your sarcasm, though perhaps entertaining to some, creates yawns for me. The Vatican has not spoken on the matter, and frankly could care less how many denominations there are. If you adhere to the information of Eric Svendsen and David Barrett your anti-Catholicism is showing.

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve not read anything by Svendsen or Barrett so I have no idea if they are “anti-Catholic” or not. Moreover, to disagree with Catholic positions or arguments does not necessarily make one “anti-Catholic”, another label that is thrown around in these forums way too much.

You know how most Catholics in these forums are just plain tired of hearing people say that Catholics worship Mary and worship statues? Likewise, those of us who are non-Catholics are just plain tired of hearing this nonsense about 30,000+ Protestant denominations. None of these contentions are correct and we should refrain from setting up the strawmen.

 

[kell0618]

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve not read anything by Svendsen or Barrett so I have no idea if they are “anti-Catholic” or not. Moreover, to disagree with Catholic positions or arguments does not necessarily make one “anti-Catholic”, another label that is thrown around in these forums way too much.

To quote sources from anti-Catholic persons who set up websites with the sole purpose of attacking Catholicism and Her adherents is to spread anti-Catholicism. Frankly, I don’t care how many denominations there are. Shall we say that there are 1,000? Perhaps that will soothe the aching protestant soul?

No one knows for sure, except for God, how many of His children are away from the Church He established. In the OP, anti-Catholic sources were stated verbatim. To say that Mr. Barrett’s number of Catholic ‘denominations’ were correct because he disliked the high number assigned to protestant denominations is laughable. Like two children arguing about who is more likable than whom; neither of which is easily measured.

I live in a small rural county and these are the churches listed in my phone book (portions of names omitted to protect privacy):
**Federated Church
New Hope Ministries
Episcopal x 3 listings
Assembly of God
Baptist Churches x 12 listings
Baptist Churches (under independent heading) x 3
Catholic Churches x 10
**Fellowship
Church of Christ x 4
Jehovah’s Witness
Lutheran
Methodist x 10
**Ministries
LDS
*Country Church
*Fellowship Church
**Alliance
**Brotherly Love
*Waters Church
United Pentacostal
*Community Church
Presbyterian x 6
Salvation Army
SDA
*Wesleyan
*Church

That is 26 different ‘denominations’ listed in our small area of around 60,000 people. This doesn’t account for two groups that I know which broke off of the Episcopal Church locally because they didn’t like what was going on in their house of worship.

A smashed glass doesn’t need the pieces counted in order to know that it is smashed. The focus needs to be on how to put the glass back together again.

 

[rr1213]

To quote sources from anti-Catholic persons who set up websites with the sole purpose of attacking Catholicism and Her adherents is to spread anti-Catholicism. Frankly, I don’t care how many denominations there are. Shall we say that there are 1,000? Perhaps that will soothe the aching protestant soul?

No one knows for sure, except for God, how many of His children are away from the Church He established. In the OP, anti-Catholic sources were stated verbatim. To say that Mr. Barrett’s number of Catholic ‘denominations’ were correct because he disliked the high number assigned to protestant denominations is laughable. Like two children arguing about who is more likable than whom; neither of which is easily measured.

I live in a small rural county and these are the churches listed in my phone book (portions of names omitted to protect privacy):
**Federated Church
New Hope Ministries
Episcopal x 3 listings
Assembly of God
Baptist Churches x 12 listings
Baptist Churches (under independent heading) x 3
Catholic Churches x 10
**Fellowship
Church of Christ x 4
Jehovah’s Witness
Lutheran
Methodist x 10
**Ministries
LDS
*Country Church
*Fellowship Church
**Alliance
**Brotherly Love
*Waters Church
United Pentacostal
*Community Church
Presbyterian x 6
Salvation Army
SDA
*Wesleyan
*Church

That is 26 different ‘denominations’ listed in our small area of around 60,000 people. This doesn’t account for two groups that I know which broke off of the Episcopal Church locally because they didn’t like what was going on in their house of worship.

A smashed glass doesn’t need the pieces counted in order to know that it is smashed. The focus needs to be on how to put the glass back together again.

Good. So at least we can assume that we won’t hear YOU stating, erroneously, that there are 30,000+ Protestant denominations.

 

[JoeyWarren]

That is 26 different ‘denominations’ listed in our small area of around 60,000 people. This doesn’t account for two groups that I know which broke off of the Episcopal Church locally because they didn’t like what was going on in their house of worship.

A smashed glass doesn’t need the pieces counted in order to know that it is smashed. The focus needs to be on how to put the glass back together again.

Put if back together? If man could even possibly put it back together it would still be weak. It would take a Divine Act of God to fuse the glass back together. I think Protestantism exists for a reason. The Gate of Protestantism is wide and the Gate of Catholicism is narrow. Very few will pass thru the narrow Gate.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Good. So at least we can assume that we won’t hear YOU stating, erroneously, that there are 30,000+ Protestant denominations.

30,000 is an understatement.

Orignally posted by Cambridge Learners Dictionary: dictionary.cambridge.org/defi…0716&dict=CALD
a religious group which has slightly different beliefs from other groups which share the same religion:

Using this definition, in my town of 12,000 we have nearly 50 denominations.

Barrett did not take into account the non-denominational movement.

 

[rr1213]

30,000 is an understatement.

Using this definition, in my town of 12,000 we have nearly 50 denominations.

Barrett did not take into account the non-denominational movement.

So, then, if your town is typical we are looking at 50 denominations instead of 30,000.

Look, we can have a discussion about what really matters, the differences between Catholic and non-Catholic approaches to the Church, salvation and God Himself, or we can wallow around in stuff like this which just peeves off non-Catholics as much as the worshipping Mary nonsense angers Catholics.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Good. So at least we can assume that we won’t hear YOU stating, erroneously, that there are 30,000+ Protestant denominations.

Exactly! Why have so many people completely missed the point of the thread?

 

[Mickey]

Here’s Mickey’s take on it:

Christ founded one Church. The One Church has split into three: Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox.
All three Churches have Apostolic succession, sufficient grace, and valid sacraments. And yes, schism is a tragedy.

It does not serve charity to talk about protestant divisions. Everyone is aware what happened during the reformation. There are countless reformed Christians who are good, God fearing people who will enter by the narrow gate. Throwing around numbers and accusations does not promote love.

 

[JoeyWarren]

So, then, if your town is typical we are looking at 50 denominations instead of 30,000.

Look, we can have a discussion about what really matters, the differences between Catholic and non-Catholic approaches to the Church, salvation and God Himself, or we can wallow around in stuff like this which just peeves off non-Catholics as much as the worshipping Mary nonsense angers Catholics.

50 minus the 15 denominations. the remaining 35 are non-denoms. the 35 are additive to the others non-denoms in other towns.

You miss the point. If there were only 15 denominations, that is 15 too many. God has only one truth not 16. That is the underlying argument.

I will use my dad as an example of non-denoms. He is protestant. He has been a member of every hard-core fundamentalist church in the neighboring town. His personal interpretation did not jive with the current pastors. So what did he do? He started his own denominational church. He hired and fired pastors at will based on his personal belief. He finally found a pastor he would not have to fire. Who? His own son. Since then his son (my half brother) has moved the church from non-denominational to the “Church of God” denomination and has become a bishop. My dad now has a pastor of his own choosing and molding.

non-denominations are a denomination of one.

To hazard an estimate of the non-denoms in the USA alone using my town as a model? Nearly over a million exist. Barrett’s 30,000 is an understatement to say the least.

Like I said before, he never accounted for the non-denominational explosion. His book was outdated even before it went to the press.

I don’t know if the 2000 edition even addresses the non-denomination issue.

As for wallowing, you can participate in this thread or ignore it. You chose to participate. So let’s wallow.

As for Salvation and how to achieve that ultimate state of experiencing the Beatific Vision, that alone will keep us separated. There is only truth, that one truth has stood the test of time for nearly 2000 years. How many supposedly new truths have been put out there and have failed. How many of these supposedly new truths have resulted in new splintering new truths.

There can only be One Absolute Truth.

One Mind, One Body, One Faith, One Belief, One Truth, One Church, not many…

Experiencing the Beatific Vision…there is only way to that goal, not many…and that one way is via the narrow gate.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Exactly! Why have so many people completely missed the point of the thread?

The point of the thread was made that Catholicism has 2942 denominations. Which is nothing more than an anti-catholic claim by a protestant to make his own protestantism feel not so bad.

 

[jack_hawkins]

The point of the thread was made that Catholicism has 2942 denominations. Which is nothing more than an anti-catholic claim by a protestant to make his own protestantism feel not so bad.

No, the point of the thread was that both figures are rhubarb of the highest order and to agree with one means agreeing with both!

 

[rr1213]

You miss the point. If there were only 15 denominations, that is 15 too many. God has only one truth not 16. That is the underlying argument.

Agreed. Unfortunately, we live in a fallen world where the Church is divided. This is a historical and present fact due to the sin of numerous people --Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox and others. We get the point. What non-Catholics don’t like is Catholics using inaccuracies to make their point.