There are 2,942 Catholic Denominations, Maybe more

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One question-
Lets say Member X is attending a Christian Church. He disagrees with the pastor, so Member X starts attending another church, but he disagrees with the pastor there. Etc… until Member X decides to start his own church with people he has met along the way who think like him. Wouldn’t Member X’s new church be it’s own denomination, being as it teaches different doctrine than other Christian churches?

Ok, two questions-
What about people who have home/basement churches? Being those that worship in their home instead of attending a local church, because they disagree with them, dislike the worship styles, etc… Would these be their own denomination as well?
 
hehehe, that made me think of Rabbit in “Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh” when Pooh is trying to eat Gopher’s honey and Rabbit runs out with a sign “Don’t…Feed…The…Bear!!!”
 
It’s all I can think of when I see people savaging each other.

Usually there are a couple of hardcore jerks in every group of earnest well-meaning people who ruin it for everyone. They (the jerks) never miss an opportunity to go through the trash, tear down campsites, and **** all over your tent.
 
I would say “Yes”.

There may be a shortage of vocations to the priesthood in this country, but there is no shortage of vocations whatsoever to the papacy.

The toughest word to live up to in the English language is “obedience” which requires us to overcome the very essence of our own fallen nature, that being is pride.

“You know, if you are bit by a chained dog, you can’t blame the dog. If you put yourself in temptation and you fall you cannot blame anyone but yourself. The devil has been chained, but when you go live in his pen, you are risking eternity.”
Mother Angelica
 
Dear Syele,

Thanks for your post starting this lively discussion.

You have repeatedly stated that we are missing the point of your post. Your point being that the same source cited as stating that there are 33,000 Protestant denominations also states that there are 2,942 Catholic denominations therefore rendering the source unreliable. Fair enough.

However, I believe it is you, not us, that is missing the point when this figure is cited. It wouldn’t matter if the number were 20, or 5 billion. The point of the citation is that it is not 1.

By dwelling on the accuracy of the cited source, you have overlooked the main point and allowed a small irritant to come between you and a very important realization. The church is meant to be one, but the very nature of Protestant, Evangelical, and Non-Denominational Christianity leads to numerous divisions. This splintering harms the Body and injures its witness to the world.

At your request, I looked around on the Internet for sources on the number of Christian Denominations. The numbers were everywhere from about 3,000 up to 38,000. I won’t bother with specific websites, because my point is not the accuracy or inaccuracy of the number. My point is this: Nowhere was it 1.

Maybe, in my children’s lifetime, Christs prayer will be answered and we will be 1. Then we can witness to the world.
 
Unfortunately the number hasn’t been “1” since the Catholics and Orthodox excommunicated each other almost a thousand years ago. Even longer if you consider some of the earlier schismatic groups. The Protestant Churches are late, although lively, participants in the schism party.
 
Steadfast said:
Actually, I could take that definition and say there are as many Catholic denominations as there are dioceses.
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Of course if you were to do that, to make the playing field level, you would need to count each ECUSA diocese, each ELCA lutheran Synod, each UMC synod, each COGIC bishop…
 
Syele said:
ok, despite it being pointed out many times before, 30,000 protestant denominations is misleading, unfair, and downright false. The figure in my thread title is from EXACTLY the same source as the 30,000 denominations number people here keep referring to… If you want to say Protestantism is bad cause it’s divided, fine But stop throwing around meaningless numbers.
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In this study, having seen it before, the “Catholic Churches” mentioned are the “fruit” of vagantism that is, they are more often then not, “churches” on paper only, headed by “bishops” tracing their orders back to any number of very odd ducks, including

Joseph Villatte
Arnold Harris
Brazillian Catholic Apostolic Church
Abdullah Aftimios Ofiesh
Matriearch Meri Spruit
Mariavites which split futher into
Catholic Mariavite Church (lead by the wife of the founding bishop who cancies hereself a bishopess

I had dealings online with the
Catholic National Apostolic Church

Go to the website of the The CANC - it is revelaed that they are lead by His Eminence, The Most Reverend Robert Matthew Gubala, D.D., SCR, Archbishop-Metropolitan of the CANC

Where Bishop Gubala got his DD and SCR are not revealed. Who ordained him is not revealed. Where his apostolic succession comes from is not revealed. But no mention is made of any re-consecration on the part of Patriarch Menendez but it is stated

“The Patriarch of the ICAN communion, His Beatitude, Luis Fernando Castillo Mendez, issued a Patriarchal Decree, in recognition of this formal and perfect communion.”

This small (American branch) of this jurisdiction from Brazil really has a total of 6 parishes and 1 Archbishop and 2 Bishops? Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox missions can go for YEARS in mission areas and not have so much as ONE resident bishop. They have one bishop per every two parishes?

Where are the laity these men serve?
Where are the buildings? I mean buildings don’t prove a vitality, but in order to buy and maintain one, the presense of tithing discipled faithful are most likely needed. So where are the bricks and mortars? The kindly pious old retired gent that shovels the snow and cuts the grass? The people who are fed and nourished in faith and growth in Christ? Well I can’t find pictures or evidence of ANY of that at that website, but you can go to "
Visit Our Photo Page With Pictures From Various Parishes & Provinces"

I counted 32 pictures. Two were of altars in chapels NOT belonging to this church. One was a picture of Bishop Gubalas Episcopal throne. At the “preistly ordination of Andre’ Queen” there were a total of 3 people who looked like they could be laity seated in an empty chapel. There appeared to be FIVE clerics.

Now the keen observer will scroll down and notice there are photographs of a certain Deacon Andre’ Queen being ordained to the preisthood, six short photos later there are pictures of Bishop Andre’ Queen standing next to a man HE just ordained a deacon. At the end you will see photographs of Bishop Queen addressing the Patrarch on “the state of the Church in the US” That is a meteoric rise to responsibility!

If we want to start counting these tiny splinter groups that are frequently comprised ONLY of clergy, frequently ONLY exist on paper/the net, and engage in more intrigue amongst each other than the US/USSR during the cold war…

Well the point of apologists citing the multiplicity of denominations outside the Cahtolic world (as identified by communion with the Pope of Rome) remains the same - whether you are snake-handling primitive one-ness pentecostal, or the self-styled “Patriarch Mar Phanoudious, of the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church (Assyrain Rite) of Cleveland” the problem remains - division, disunion, and deterioration.
 
rr1213 said:
Unfortunately the number hasn’t been “1” since the Catholics and Orthodox excommunicated each other almost a thousand years ago. Even longer if you consider some of the earlier schismatic groups. The Protestant Churches are late, although lively, participants in the schism party.
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Christianity hasn’t been united LONG before 1054…

In 431 the third ecumenical council, the Council of Ephesus was called to deal with the issue of Nestorianism. A teaching later refuted by the Latin and Byzantines as a heresy The Patriarch of Babylon and his spiritual children parted ways by the end of the council with Rome, Alexandria and Byzantium. This rupture persists to this very day in the Assyrian Church of the East and the Church of the East & Abroad.

Within a quarter century, actually slightly less than 25 years, another schism between the East and West was about to occur. (Although in this case the East = Orriental Christians and the west = Greco-Roman Christians of the Latin and Greek empire!) After the council of Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon that took place from according to modern reckoning from October 8 to November 1, 451, at Chalcedon, the Oriental Orthodox departed communion from the Latin West and the Byzantine East.

What has become of these communions? The Assyrians and Oriental Orthodox have remain largely localized and have not experienced or attempted the missiology of the Catholic Church. Where members of these groups are found outside the traditional homelands of the Mother churches, they are 99% ethnics (and persons married thereto) of the diaspora, not indigenous people who have been converted. The Indian Orthodox have actually experience such further division and reform that one needs to sit down and make a chart to track them all.

In schism, they cannot be said to have flourished.
 
rr1213 said:
Unfortunately the number hasn’t been “1” since the Catholics and Orthodox excommunicated each other almost a thousand years ago. Even longer if you consider some of the earlier schismatic groups. The Protestant Churches are late, although lively, participants in the schism party.
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The split between the Catholics and the Orthodox is unfortunate. In some sources I have seen have an earlier split as well, that of the Assyrian Churches and the Oriental Orthodox churces around 700+. I don’t know all that much about the various schisms throughout history (probably more than your average layman, but definitely not well read.)

That being said, I will venture to say that the earlier schisms are of a different character than the more recent Protestant Reformation. After these earlier splits, one did not see the rise of multitudes of Orthodox churches, or Assyrian churches. To my knowledge, there are not thousands of Orthodox denominations with widely varying theology. At the most, there are Orthodox churches associated with specific countries. I believe that they all gather under one umbrella, however. Still, even if we count them as if they did not, there are somewhat less than 200 of them after almost 1000 years.

Whether you accept the figure of 33,000 or not, I have not seen a figure less than several thousand for Protestant denominations and, to be honest, don’t think that the low end numbers were arrived at using a very realistic definition of denomination.

I guess what I’m getting at is that the number of Protestant Churches is, to me, a witness against the general ideas of Protestantism. There simply is no question that Protestant theology comes nowhere near the realization of the unity Christ desired for His Church. Judging by the number of denominations which have arisen in only 500 years, it seems to do the exact opposite. By comparison, the older churches, which are much closer in theology, have not splintered into thousands of parts. They are regretably separate, but stable and lasting, slowly working towards reunion.
 
IanS said:
I never said it did. What it does tell us is that the ONE Church Christ founded is comprised of those who are in union with the successor of St. Peter and his ordained Bishops. Everyone else, although united in baptism, is a schismatic from that ONE Church. Whether its 3, 30, 30,000 or 30,000,000 churches doesn’t matter, more than ONE is ONE too many and not what Christ intended.
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I know that, and it was not the point of the thread.
 
I don’t think we’ll ever really know what the exact number of denominations are. As has been seen on this thread alone there is no clear consensus on what qualifies. In truth it is probably a mixture of factors. At some level doctrine has to be a main catalyst for a sect if for no other reason than to justify its existance. Then there is governmental body. While that there may be many “denominations” that more or less agree on doctrine (i.e. Southern Baptist Churches vs. Independant Baptist Churches) the fact that one or all of the groups have intentionally seperated their ruling authorities must mark them as separate. This also coincides with desire as some donominations wish to be exclusive.

Also these numbers get skewed by the fact that many denominations that exist today may very well not exist tomorrow. Take the fruitcakes who started their own church because they hate gays, soldiers and America. They are a stand alone church and so a donomination but it’s extremely doubtful they’ll last beyond a generation or two.

The so called non-denominational churches present a problem as many of them are in truth stand alone churches (if successful ones) as they have their own constitutions and government they can legitimately be called denominations even though by and large they share doctrinal principles with either the SBC or major Pentecostal denominations.

So in the end could there be 30,000? It’s possible. But since we don’t know and the accepted source of the figure is obviously flawed then by stating it we’re indulging in “urban myth” so to speak. Also it should be noted that even if the 30,000 number is technically correct that number does not feed into the argument that Catholics are making. Which is that Sola Scriptura as a basic theology leads to any number of personal interpretations. In that case we need to be concerned about the actual number of doctrinal diviations that have occurred. Denominations can form because of silly human rivalries and vanities but may not induldge in any doctrinal diviations from their parent church.

So I would say that the number of differing doctrines are the real culprit at large here. This would seem to be more to the meat of the matter than then number of church bodies.

Anyway, I enjoyed this thread. 🙂
 
pedja said:
I dont think Jesus founded a Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church. It`s not really mentioned in the Bible which official name the church has to have.
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One, Holy Catholic, Apostolic is not the name, but a descriptor of the Church.
 
itsjustdave1988 said:
In Barrett’s source, he list the denomination BY COUNTRY. Barrett lists ONLY ONE Roman Catholic denomination for each country. What Barrett doesn’t understand is that of the approx. 230 countries he lists having JUST ONE Roman Catholic denomination, EACH OF THOSE are subject to one PASTOR the Roman Pontiff, being ONE SINGLE CHURCH.
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I thought the figure was 2942?
 
Spirithound said:
I thought the figure was 2942?
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the 2942 number comes from listing the RCC in each country, the Eastern Catholic Churches, the Othodox jurisdicitions, and a number of folks who have a website or stationary in their homegrown “Catholic Church” that NO ONE would consider Catholic, let alone a church…

His Eminence The Metropolitan/Archbishop Dr. Chief Alexander Swift Eagle Justice, Metropolitan/Archbishop and Member of the Imperial Holy Orthodox Synod of the Holy Orthodox Church of All Russia and Appointed Chief Patriarch for United States of America - California, Mexico and for ALL Latin American Countries, Metropolitan/Archbishop of the Archdiocese of Native Americans and President of the College of Bishops of the Mexican National Catholic Church , Metropolitan/Archbishop of the Holy Orthodox Native American Catholic Archdiocese and Chief Patriarch of the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Holy Orthodox Native American Catholic Church AND Bishop of The National Pentecostal Overcoming Churches of the World Inc. comes to mind.

Under the methodology used in the study, HE would count as “a Catholic Church”. If Metropolitan/Archbishop Dr. Chief Alexander Swift Eagle Justice has any followers at all, I doubt they would take up more room than a short bus that could take them to a hospital where they could be treated for their delusion of grandeur.
 
rtconstant said:
…The so called non-denominational churches present a problem as many of them are in truth stand alone churches (if successful ones) as they have their own constitutions and government they can legitimately be called denominations even though by and large they share doctrinal principles with either the SBC or major Pentecostal denominations.
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Funny you should mention that. A buddy of mine who is a convert to the Catholic Church had been - as an adolescent and teenager - a member of one of the mega-churches in this city. On the face of it - the two largest - were near identical in their theology, worship and tone. Both of them have, in the past two decades, successfully planted “Daughter churches” throughtout the state and the rest of the midwest… And while both congregations call themselves “non-denominational” the daughter churches are heavily reliant (almost exclusively) on pastors who go to the mother church for training and follow the general theological predilections of the founding pastors of each respective mother church.

I asked my convert friend “was their ever any fellowship or cooperation between the two mega-churches?” Decidedly not. There was, at time, a perception of intense rivalry over minor things that the “other ones got wrong”. Not enough to claim that the other was “not a Christian” but just enough to offer a little denominational rivalry between supposed “non-denominations”.

Would they count as seperate denominations? They certainly act like it.
 
Excuse me one minute I do not get this question.

In order to be part of the Catholic Church one must be in concert with Rome if they are not they have left the church and are no longer part of the Catholic Church so a denomination this does not apply.

The only other (Catholic) split is the Ortrodox which had a disagreement with the original church and still uses Apostolic succession.

Both Churches have as of lately been working towards re-unification and when that happens may want to look at scripture for the possibilities.

Jesuits, franciscans, Dominicans, etc… are orders not denominations.

Remember Roman Catholics are 1.2 billion strong.
 
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