There are many Gods and Lords...maybe the Mormons got it right!

  • Thread starter Thread starter why_me
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
“The lds people are decent and by and large behave wonderfully Christian”

It comes down to this, the LDS do a better job at being Christians than real Christians. Joseph Smith takes it up a notch as he said he even does better than Jesus. In Mormon theology the Devil says he can do a better job than Jesus. And thus the Mormon Church.

“The LDS people are decent” Does this attribute bring you salvation WyMe?.

The thief on the cross was a bad person all of his life and yet he goes straight to heaven
How can this be true?

The truth is we are all sinners in need of Christ and His Cross. I would rather be the worst sinner on the face of the earth than beleive I can do one thing to achieve my own salvation.

The Catholic Church has at its core true humility. The Mormon church has at its core true pride. I knw this I was one myself. I still battle with it. Confession is my best tool.

www.utahmission.com
 
Never have I slammed catholic doctrine on the MAAD board. But nice try creating a strawman. 🙂
IMO calling Catholic doctrine a “bugbear” is slamming, you kvetch about about similar wording used to describe LDS doctrine.
 
You know, Rebecca, that that wasn’t my point. I only wanted to show that mormons also get their ideas from scriptures. Yes, they may interpret them differently than catholics but they can also make a good case for what they believe based on the bible.

.
technically speaking, a person could get just about whatever he wanted to get from Scrpture… which is scary

which is the reason we need an infallible teaching authority… a Church… that the gates of Hell will not prevail against… (ever).
 
IMO calling Catholic doctrine a “bugbear” is slamming, you kvetch about about similar wording used to describe LDS doctrine.
My referral to an issue as a bugbear is not a slam. Rather, it just showed where catholics and mormons on this board had some contention and to which catholics claimed that the mormons got it wrong.
 
technically speaking, a person could get just about whatever he wanted to get from Scrpture… which is scary

which is the reason we need an infallible teaching authority… a Church… that the gates of Hell will not prevail against… (ever).
True enough. But then, we need understanding as to why a church may believe what they believe. My point: the mormons did not just pluck their doctrine out of thin air. A lot is scripture based.
 
“The lds people are decent and by and large behave wonderfully Christian”

It comes down to this, the LDS do a better job at being Christians than real Christians. Joseph Smith takes it up a notch as he said he even does better than Jesus.

I have already pointed out several times on this forum that JS’s boasting speech was taken from Paul boasting in the New Testament. Read 2 Corinthians chapter 11. His sermon was based on those scriptures. He may have taken it up a notch but…we are all human and get carried away at times.
 
“The LDS people are decent” Does this attribute bring you salvation WyMe?
]
What brings salvation is the basic commandment to give love to one’s neighbor and to one’s enemy. True salvation comes in the prayer of saint francis. If we can put that prayer into our lives and live it, we will have salvation, with Jesus at the center of our actions.
 
What brings salvation is the basic commandment to give love to one’s neighbor and to one’s enemy. True salvation comes in the prayer of saint francis. If we can put that prayer into our lives and live it, we will have salvation, with Jesus at the center of our actions.
For sure.
It is good to know where this love comes from as I know it has never come from me. Although the closer I come to Jesus the more I find peace immersed in it. Helping the LDS here in Utah I have found that this point works very well. We do not possess this love as if it were are own, we are gifted it in order to choose it and then share in it as Jesus always has with His Father. Then we are to unselfishy pass it on to others. This helps one lead to Trinity in the true Christian sense. It gives them a fighting chance to rise above themselves, to get out of themselves in order to find the real Jesus of Christianity. Helps us to understand our position as created, His as sole Creator. We have one going through the RCIA right now who has found him. The pressure from her LDS family and husband is becomming immense and intense. She does not know if she will be able to go on. To much to loose as she put it. When I was baptised here in Utah 9 years ago I had no such pressure, it was an easy choice for me. Please all of you pray for Lori and for her husband.

God Bless
 
True enough. But then, we need understanding as to why a church may believe what they believe. My point: the mormons did not just pluck their doctrine out of thin air. A lot is scripture based.
i feel i understand the point you are making…

but finding things in scripture just makes their beliefs all the more scary… because then their beliefs are given a form of legitimacy… and peole believe them and are then, possibly, carried by them into Hell…

Of course, i realize that people have consciences… and once they begin to see that something isn’t right… with a false religious system such as Mormonism… they will come out of it… unless they choose to stay because there are 'bennies" to being a member that they do not want to sacrifice… yet one who cares about truth and follows it with all his heart… will not mind such sacrifices…
 
“Before me there was no god formed nor will there be one after me.” Is. 43:10

“I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God…” Is. 44:6

“See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.” Deut. 32:39

If there are other “gods,” it is not the doing of God.

To Christians there is but ONE GOD. We don’t practice polytheism nor henotheism.
 
. We have one going through the RCIA right now who has found him. The pressure from her LDS family and husband is becomming immense and intense. She does not know if she will be able to go on. To much to loose as she put it. When I was baptised here in Utah 9 years ago I had no such pressure, it was an easy choice for me. Please all of you pray for Lori and for her husband.

God Bless
People are in a constant state of flux and religion is just one state of flux that a person may find themselves in. It is never easy when a person decides to change their faith and embrace a new one. Their family can have an averse reaction. It is no different for a catholic who is contemplating joining the lds faith, their family can have a negative reaction.

My take on it is quite simple: if a person can find peace in mormonism, fine, no problem. Likewise for catholicism. If a person can find their peace within catholicism, fine, no problem. Both faiths if practiced well, can bring a person closer to god.

The problem for the mormon church is simple: people have no time to be involved in a lay church, where volunteerism is considered very important. The lds church is a time consuming church as it depends on members giving their time freely to give talks, do callings, and take on responsibilities such as visiting and home teaching other members.

The catholic church, however, depends more on a paid clergy and nuns to help in the work and with each parish depending on some volunteers to visit the sick and lonely.

Being a catholic can seem quite easy to a mormon. 🙂
 
True enough. But then, we need understanding as to why a church may believe what they believe. My point: the mormons did not just pluck their doctrine out of thin air. A lot is scripture based.
if one cannot believe the Cahtolic Church is the one Christ established…

one need only look at logic…

It just stands to reason that: 1) God loves us & wants fellowship with us - & He wants that connectedness / relationshiip to last forever… 2) Because of that, he would, logically, want to establish on Earth a Church that teaches the truth - the WHOLE truth… not subjective truth but objective truth (reality…) and 3) that that Church would stand out amongst any other so called church… that man may invent… and God knows man has invented plenty of them… :rolleyes:

So the question is: Which Church is the real, true Church…

Logic comes to the rescue again. What Church has been around since Christ ascended into Heavne??

Lutheran? Mormon? baptist?

hmmm… :hmmm:
 
“Being a catholic can seem quite easy to a mormon”

I don’t want you to think I am lashing out at you WhyMe I am not, take this from my heart. (Thinking outside of the box) Easy to be Catholic? This may be true in some sense but we should not stereotype, or be fixed in our own thought to the point of boxing ourselves in. Many of us live in a very tiny glass bubble.

It depends on what Catholics you are speaking about, there are at least a Billion. If your speaking about the Parishioner who has never volunteered for anything other attending weekly Mass. Or the Parishioner who may have given twice as much as he or she gave last week. Or the one who teaches RCIA or works with the youth groups. All good stuff that does require sacrafice.

Or the Priest who gave up his world to go to South America, Africa, India. . As a Catholic I think about our 12 Apostles, most of who were martyred. They are of our Church along with the thousands and thousand of Martyrs. My Patron Saint can be found at my site here: utahmission.com/pages/cJouges_page.html (Easy?)

Peter who was hung upside down on a cross because he did not feel worthy to be upright as Christ was. It depends on what Catholic life you are speaking about. Do you know Oscar Romero?
I know you know Mother Teresa who once went to a garbage dump to tell a women that was moments from death that her son who left her there to die needs your forgiveness, your last bit of love. She lived this daily. Many of her order live this today as I write. Do you know how many other orders all around this world are living worse experiences and giving it up to God and His works for others? Many devout Catholics who have been transformed by the Eucharist, those that get it and are dying today in China, in Iraq, Rev. John Prakash killed in Nepal a few months back, Father Thomas Pandippallyil tortured and killed in India in August, Father Karunaratnam in Sri Lanka… on and on and on. Easy? Depends on where you are coming from again who you are speaking about. These died for there love of Jesus and those that killed them. Happens all the time. 2000 years of Crucifixion in one form or another. How about all the good Priest who give up all things that we have come to cherish, our families in order to further the Kingdom of God? Priest all around the world some in good places some in very bad. It is easy to be Catholic if one looks for easy. It is free agency without peer pressure for the most part. Keep in mind that when the Mormon Missionaries are being pulled out the Catholic Missions remain. Not to boast as that would be sin. When you understand the concept of Trinity you understand what it means to be a vessel for God. He will make it hard if we ask with an honest heart. He alone truly understand hard. If I feel that I have it to easy as a Catholic I am reminded why as the focal point at Mass is the Crucifix as you well know.

Jesus has many who love his heavenly kingdom, but few who bear his Cross, Many want consolation, but few desire adversity. Many are eager to share Jesus’ table, but few will join him in fasting. Everyone would be glad to rejoice with him, but not many are willing to suffer for him. Many will follow Jesus as far as the breaking of the bread, but few will stay to drink the cup of his passionate self -sacrifice. Many are inspired by his miracles, but few accept the shame of his Cross. Many love Jesus as long as they have no troubles. Many praise and bless him as long as they receive some comfort from him. But if Jesus hides himself, leaving them even for a brief moment they start complaining and become dejected.

But those who love Jesus for Jesus’ sake, and not for any special privileges, bless him in all difficulties and anguish, as well as in times of great comfort. Even if he should never comfort them again, they would continue to praise him. What astonishing power rests in the pure love of Jesus that is not corrupted with self-interest or self love!
 
“Being a catholic can seem quite easy to a mormon”

I don’t want you to think I am lashing out at you WhyMe I am not, take this from my heart. (Thinking outside of the box) Easy to be Catholic? This may be true in some sense but we should not stereotype, or be fixed in our own thought to the point of boxing ourselves in. Many of us live in a very tiny glass bubble. ]
It was a sterotype but I know that from my own parish, most view it as a sunday activity of attending Mass. Now this is not to say that most catholics are not living the commandments…but rather to stress that Mormonism is not just a sunday religion. It takes up a lot of time for each individual family. I also know very devout catholics who pray the rosary and are involved in parish activities but they are in the minority. And that was my point.

Catholicism is also more than a sunday faith. But it seems to me that for many catholics it is just church attendance on a saturday or sunday as an obligation. And for a mormon, this would seem ‘easy’.
 
First of all in all humility I have never known a Catholic who has or can follow the ten Commandments. I have heard many Mormons refer to people they know that do and some that have told me they are clean. The key in Catholicism is found in Confession, in honesty. If one is to judge another the best time is always after a good sincere confession. Before I became Catholic I lived the same stereotype you mentioned above. I was deep in this sin. I knew a family that I felt were one of the Sunday only families. As a matter of fact I knew many like them as my judgment was precise (the fall) in the fact that I myself became god himself in my judgment. . In the 2000 years of this church there is a much deeper place to go in all of this. Many fail to get even close but God understands and loves them just as much as the next. His love does not measure as we tend to do. He really is God, were not. Back to this family. I worked in their house for a day. This quiet family who I only saw at Mass but yet I seemed to know more about them than they knew about themselves. I will keep this short. Don’t go with what your eyes see as you may be very far off the mark. Who in this life can give to others and not ask for anything in return, no need for recognition except in the relationship between God our Creator and us his unworthy servants. For some this is all that is needed. In my life I have found countless Catholics who have this relationship. It is very quiet and often missed by others. While some have to be sitting at the front , always looking to be in first place, oozing with goodness and so much insight others do take a back seat. Knowing that their self worth is no more important than the poor guy sitting in prison or the Pope himself. Remember what Jesus said, the first will be last and the last will be first. Those I speak about will most likely never be spoken about. They just do what is asked. You see them at Mass but you can never look into their hearts. Even the most lazy Catholic is loved the same by God. When you can understand this and then live it you will get close to following the 2 most important commandments, when you can see others the way God see’s them. Confession is the key followed by Eucharist and lots of prayer. Go deeper. what is the motivation for being seen as good? As being worthy? Why would a Christian understands the difference between God as being creation itself rather than just a part of it?
In Christ
Rich
 
It was a sterotype but I know that from my own parish, most view it as a sunday activity of attending Mass. Now this is not to say that most catholics are not living the commandments…but rather to stress that Mormonism is not just a sunday religion. It takes up a lot of time for each individual family. I also know very devout catholics who pray the rosary and are involved in parish activities but they are in the minority. And that was my point.

Catholicism is also more than a sunday faith. But it seems to me that for many catholics it is just church attendance on a saturday or sunday as an obligation. And for a mormon, this would seem ‘easy’.
my parish has mass every day and confession before every mass. there is perpetual adoration. (that’s 24x7) and hourly rosaries. there are large numbers present for every mass. religious education classes are full. there is a parish library open 6 days a week and fully staffed and numerous well attended activities ever week. i don’t see the slightest hint of this being a sunday faith. daily mass and adoration alone would seem “hard” for many mormons so what good the comparison? mormon activities are staffed by untrained lay people who are “called” to their positions. Catholic activities are staffed by volunteers who are trained and led by professional clergy. one requires humility and desire to serve…the other is controlling and feeds the egos of those who are striving to be in charge. so which is more successful at bringing people to worship and praise the ONE true God?
 
my parish has mass every day and confession before every mass. there is perpetual adoration. (that’s 24x7) and hourly rosaries. there are large numbers present for every mass. religious education classes are full. there is a parish library open 6 days a week and fully staffed and numerous well attended activities ever week. i don’t see the slightest hint of this being a sunday faith. daily mass and adoration alone would seem “hard” for many mormons so what good the comparison? mormon activities are staffed by untrained lay people who are “called” to their positions. Catholic activities are staffed by volunteers who are trained and led by professional clergy. one requires humility and desire to serve…the other is controlling and feeds the egos of those who are striving to be in charge. so which is more successful at bringing people to worship and praise the ONE true God?
That is wonderful. But in a church that I use to go to in the summer, there were usually just a handful of people for morning mass. Also, 6 or 7 catholic schools are closing in the washington dc area. They are being converted into charter schools. Why?

And do I need to mention that only a fraction perhaps 10% of the Catholic French population attend mass regularly. The figure is not that much higher in Ireland. But I am glad to hear that all is well in your area.

And thanks for your unbias opinion of Mormons doing service in their churches. :rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top