There is a lot riding on Pope Peter

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I am not a catholic but am learning about the church. Matt 16:15-17 gets brought up an awful lot. But not for the right reason. A catholic priest told me that Peter is the rock that Jesus built the church on because Jesus knew that Peter had unfailing faith, and that Peter is greek for rock. Well, I believe that Peter is greek for rock. What I don’t agree with is that Peter had unfailing faith. 10 chapters later his faith was a miserable failure. The ‘Rock’ that Jesus built His church on is the truth which Peter spoke. That Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of the living God. I don’t see how it could be any other way.
 
jabajaba said:
I am not a catholic but am learning about the church. Matt 16:15-17 gets brought up an awful lot. But not for the right reason. A catholic priest told me that Peter is the rock that Jesus built the church on because Jesus knew that Peter had unfailing faith, and that Peter is greek for rock. Well, I believe that Peter is greek for rock. What I don’t agree with is that Peter had unfailing faith. 10 chapters later his faith was a miserable failure. The ‘Rock’ that Jesus built His church on is the truth which Peter spoke. That Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of the living God. I don’t see how it could be any other way.
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I think you meant to include verse 18 in your citation. You might want to think about verse 19 as well:
Matthew 16:19 - And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
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That was Peter, right? Getting the keys to the kingdom of heaven? 🙂 By the way, Catholic is traditionally capitalized.
 
Repentance is the key. Peter’s faith was shaken up, but he finally repented. Yes, there were a whole lot talking on St. Peter in the Bible - it is he who stood up for the faith; it is he in the verses where he helped cure the paralyzed man.

Peter’s repentance also allows us to know Jesus’ mercy and to see that repentance will make you a better Christian.

His unfailing faith proved by his death on another cross.
 
Cranch said:
I think you meant to include verse 18 in your citation. You might want to think about verse 19 as well:

That was Peter, right? Getting the keys to the kingdom of heaven? 🙂 By the way, Catholic is traditionally capitalized.
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Hi there cranch. Thankyou for your reply. Not to worry, I caught the sarcasm. Very clever. (a little sarcasm of my own)👍 Anyway, yes, that is Peter getting the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. Now let’s read on a little further shall we? Matthew 18:18. The authority that was given to Peter in chapter 16 is given to the other apostles as well. “Verily I say unto you, whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Jesus is speaking about church discipline. What do you take this verse to mean?
 
jabajaba said:
Matthew 18:18. The authority that was given to Peter in chapter 16 is given to the other apostles as well. “Verily I say unto you, whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Jesus is speaking about church discipline. What do you take this verse to mean?
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I hope you don’t mind if I answered.
Yes, the verses gives authority to all apostles, but He doesn’t say they specially they are rock as He said directly to Peter.

More importantly, the verse indicates Jesus establish the Sacrament of Conciliation.
 
jabajaba said:
Hi there cranch. Thankyou for your reply. Not to worry, I caught the sarcasm. Very clever. (a little sarcasm of my own)👍 Anyway, yes, that is Peter getting the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. Now let’s read on a little further shall we? Matthew 18:18. The authority that was given to Peter in chapter 16 is given to the other apostles as well. “Verily I say unto you, whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Jesus is speaking about church discipline. What do you take this verse to mean?
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It means just what you say–as far as this promise being for all the Apostles (and their successors). As to exactly what the promise was is another topic for another thread. 🙂

Jesus didn’t, however, give the keys to the kingdom to all the Apostles, but only to Peter. Again, Jesus singled out Peter to give him special instructions he did not give to the others:

John 21:
[15] When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
[16] A second time he said to him, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
[17] He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.

It is the duty and privilege of the office of pope to follow in Peter’s footsteps and do for his brethren and all the people of God what Jesus asked of the first pope, Peter, to do. It’s a hard position to take on and many a pope hasn’t filled the office with personal holiness and dignity. But, the promise of Christ remains no matter who holds the office, and that is the real importance and miracle of the papacy.
 
Let’s not forget Luke 22:
31: “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
32: but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.”
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Jesus is refering to Peter returning to the Faith after denying Christ, and what his work will be afterwards. It’s quite clear that Simon Peter has a unique role among the Christians, that of strengthening them in the Faith, prayed for by Christ Himself.

Peace and God bless!
 
Jesus was making a wordplay on Peter’s name. Peter(Petros in greek) means “a movable rock or stone” The word translated “rock” (petra in greek) means “an immovable rock formation or rock mass.” Peter wrote, “you are living stones that God is building into His spiritual temple. What’s more, you are His holy priests.” Also he wrote, “You are coming to Christ, who is the living cornerstone of God’s temple.”
What this is all saying is that when Jesus said “upon this rock I will build my church.” the “rock” is the truth that He “is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.” And that all who believe in Him and confess Him as Lord are His holy priests and the living stones that God is building into His spiritual temple.
 
jabajaba said:
I am not a catholic but am learning about the church. Matt 16:15-17 gets brought up an awful lot. But not for the right reason. A catholic priest told me that Peter is the rock that Jesus built the church on because Jesus knew that Peter had unfailing faith, and that Peter is greek for rock. Well, I believe that Peter is greek for rock. What I don’t agree with is that Peter had unfailing faith. 10 chapters later his faith was a miserable failure. The ‘Rock’ that Jesus built His church on is the truth which Peter spoke. That Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of the living God. I don’t see how it could be any other way.
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But what does one do with Matt 16: 19?
 
Jabajaba,

That Peter is the rock on which Jesus built His Church is derived from the meaning of the text in Matthew 16:18. I certainly agree with you that Peter’s faith failed him the morning of Good Friday, but that does not change the grammar of Matthew 16:18. To claim that the second “rock” in “You are rock, and on this rock …” refers to something besides the first “rock” is stretching the text beyond its breaking point. Demonstrative pronouns were designed for exactly this sort of sentence.
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Let’s not forget that Sts. Mary of Bethany and Nathaniel also confessed that Jesus is the Christ and he never changed their names, called them blessed, never claimed that the Father revealed it to them, and never said His Church would be built on the Rock of their Testament.
 
It always seemed quite obvious to me that Simon the Rock was made the ‘head’ Apostle when you read that chapter of Matthew as well as the rest of the New Testament in it’s entirety. Over and over again Peter is placed first among the Apostles.

Who spoke up and said “Lord, to whom should we go? Thy words are the words of eternal life…” (Matt 28:20)?

Who immediately served as the leader of the Apostles after Jesus’ resurrection (Acts 1:15-26)?

Who spoke for the Apostles on the day of Penecost (Acts 2:14)?

Who stood up and ensured order at Council of Jersusalem to allow Paul & Barnabas to describe the miracles worked among the gentiles (Acts 15:7)?

Why of course, the answer to all of those is Peter. The Rock on which Jesus would build his Church. A Church that would prevail against the gates of Hades.
 
First: Petros/Petra: Start over. Those words did not mean “little rock” / “big rock” in first century Greek. Moreover, it is generally conceded that Matthew was likely written first in Aramaic, where the word would have been “kepha” in both places. End of story.

Second: Matthew 18:18. Jesus gives the power of binding and loosing to all of the apostles. But only to Peter had he given the promise of the keys.

Third: In Luke 22:31-32, Jesus says to Peter something that is revealed in Greek but not in English because we lack inflection: “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you [Gk: you all], that he might sift you [all] like wheat, but I have prayed for you [singlular = Simon] **that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.”
**
Fourth: In John 21, three times Jesus asks Peter: “Do you love me?” And to Peter’s three affirmations Jesus replies, “Feed my sheep.”

Catholics view all these passages, taken together, as strongly supporting the primacy of Peter among the 12, even to the exclulsion of any other possible reading.
 
jabajaba said:
Jesus was making a wordplay on Peter’s name. Peter(Petros in greek) means “a movable rock or stone” The word translated “rock” (petra in greek) means “an immovable rock formation or rock mass.”
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Here we are again on another thread “Straining out gnats and choking on camels” as Jesus warned against in his conversation with the Pharisees just a little later on in Mt 23:24. We continue to debate the endings of greek words, which weren’t even the original words of the scripture quoted, but greek translations from the Aramaic Jesus spoke and Matthew wrote. Jesus did not play the role of a “wordsmith”, he was a plain spoken Galilean, (people thought to be uneducated). That kind of “gnat straining” has gone on in these forums for years, and is currently going on in the thread “On these many small rocks I will build my churches”, or something like that.

Peace To All
 
MrStain said:
It always seemed quite obvious to me that Simon the Rock was made the ‘head’ Apostle when you read that chapter of Matthew as well as the rest of the New Testament in it’s entirety. Over and over again Peter is placed first among the Apostles.

Who spoke up and said “Lord, to whom should we go? Thy words are the words of eternal life…” (Matt 28:20)?

Who immediately served as the leader of the Apostles after Jesus’ resurrection (Acts 1:15-26)?

Who spoke for the Apostles on the day of Penecost (Acts 2:14)?

Who stood up and ensured order at Council of Jersusalem to allow Paul & Barnabas to describe the miracles worked among the gentiles (Acts 15:7)?

Why of course, the answer to all of those is Peter. The Rock on which Jesus would build his Church. A Church that would prevail against the gates of Hades.
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Yes, this shows his leadership.
 
water said:
Yes, this shows his leadership.
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When this section of the Gospel of Matthew would come up in our old Baptist bible-studies my wife always had a knack of mentioning how the Peter was buried under St. Peters Cathedral and thus Jesus ‘literally’ built His Church on Peter. This would usually be received with strange looks and some discomfort, but she made a great point. Of course I should mention that my wife was raised Catholic and the faith she learned as a child obviously stuck with her. Now we are both Catholic.
 
As background for Matthew 16:18-19, see Isaiah 22:15-26, where the office of *steward over the **household *in the Old Testament is mentioned. This steward was in charge of the royal household when the king and queen-mother were out of town.

In response to Peter’s statement of faith in Matthew 16:16-17, Jesus, in turn, promises to one day make Peter the chief steward over His household, the person in charge of the Church on earth after Jesus’ return to Heaven. This is confirmed by Jesus’ words to Peter in Luke 12:41-48, where Jesus tells Peter of his responsibilities as the steward whom his Master has set over His household until His return, including what will happen if he abuses his office. To this end, Jesus prays that the gift of infallible faith be given to his chief steward in Luke 22:31-32, who thus strengthened by supernatural grace becomes the unfailing rock to whom the brethren can turn to be strengthened so that the powers of Hell will never prevail against Jesus’ Church. The resurrected Jesus formally commissions Peter to this office of stewardship in John 21:15-17. In the first fifteen chapters of the Book of Acts, the primacy of Peter’s stewardship in the Church can be clearly seen in the selection of Judas’ replacement, in his preaching on the day of Pentecost, in his performing miracles, in his baptizing the first Gentile converts, and in the settling of the circumcision controversy. It is not mere coincidence that when the gospels record the names of the twelve apostles that Peter’s name is always first, and Judas’ last.
 
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