There is no God

[TySixtus]

kev7:

We don’t need proof of God to belive in him. God is not part of this world and is therefore not subject to any worldly tests.

If god is not part of this universe, it doesn’t exist. You need to prove it exists outside of the universe. Good luck with that. If it does exist outside of the universe, how can you claim to know anything about it? If it exists outside the universe, you cannot comprehend it. It’s outside your ability to decipher.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

kev7:

Regardless you still haven’t proven that love doesn’t exist.

I never said love doesn’t exist.

Where are you getting this from?

Ty

 

[Maranatha]

TySixtus:

Quantum Physics allows particles to appear without causation, so there is no reason to require the universe itself to require a cause.

Ty

Ty,

I’d like to add my thanks for posting here and congratulate you on your willingness to challenge your beliefs. I don’t begrudge you motives.

The Theory of Quantum Mechanics is directly opposed to the Theory of Relativity. Both are provable and mutually exclusive. Modern physics is primarily focused on reconciling the two. Until that happens, one or both of the theories will most likely be revised. Therefore, QM is not a good theory on which to base your philosophical views.

Cheers

 

[kev7]

TySixtus:

Well since I’m an atheist, I don’t believe god exists. Therefore, I think all religions are equally nonsensical.

Ty

why is something that is so nonsensical something that you put so much faith in? How does being an atheist bring you closer to love? How does it fill your heart with joy? How does it give you peace and purpose?

Some day you will belive in God. You are infact a child of God and he never lets his childern fall to the waste.

I’m sure there are many here that will pray for you.

 

[TySixtus]

Verbum Caro:

Ok, thanks Ty. And you are welcome, let me also thank you for your courtesy.

So, would it be fair to say then that, according to the position you have laid out, the universe is an “uncaused cause”?

I guess if we were being semantic, sure. But the idea itself that is “cause” is contained in the universe. Prior to that, cause did not exist.

However, let’s say for the sake of argument that the universe is the Uncaused Cause. What now?

Ty

 

[buffalo]

Maranatha:

Ty,

I’d like to add my thanks for posting here and congratulate you on your willingness to challenge your beliefs. I don’t begrudge you motives.

The Theory of Quantum Mechanics is directly opposed to the Theory of Relativity. Both are provable and mutually exclusive. Modern physics is primarily focused on reconciling the two. Until that happens, one or both of the theories will most likely be revised. Therefore, QM is not a good theory on which to base your philosophical views.

Cheers

Seconded. Quantum Physics is probalistic by nature, has to be viewed outside its frame of refernce and eventually leads to God.

 

[kev7]

TySixtus:

I never said love doesn’t exist.

Where are you getting this from?

Ty

You said you would disprove any characteristic of our God.
We are telling you that one of those characteristics is love.

I guess you just admitted you are wrong without realizing it.

Yes you are right. Love does exist.

 

[mikew262]

kev7:

why is something that is so nonsensical something that you put so much faith in? How does being an atheist bring you closer to love? How does it fill your heart with joy? How does it give you peace and purpose?

Some day you will belive in God. You are infact a child of God and he never lets his childern fall to the waste.

I’m sure there are many here that will pray for you.

 

[Maranatha]

TySixtus:

First of all, your grammar and punctuation are horrible.

Secondly, if you don’t have anything to add to the discussion, please be quiet.

Ty

Atheists are not bound by a duty to be charitable or bound by any other moral precept but it is a requirement of this discussion board.

 

[tommyt_520]

He is telling who has something to add or not. Great! I love it.

 

[kev7]

TySixtus:

If god is not part of this universe, it doesn’t exist. You need to prove it exists outside of the universe. Good luck with that. If it does exist outside of the universe, how can you claim to know anything about it? If it exists outside the universe, you cannot comprehend it. It’s outside your ability to decipher.

Ty

EXACTLY!

We claim only to know God from his love for us. We claim that Jesus christ is the word of God. We claim that he came to us in love and died for us so that we may know him.

In other words, God came to this world to be with us. He reached out to us in love. The Kingdom of heaven is not of this world.

Again, we only need gods love to fill our hearts with joy and peac to have faith in him. We require no proof of this world to belive in him. And NO we do not need to proof that God exists at all. We accept that we cannot prove it and we also claim that you can never prove it!

You can only experience his love. It is in fact love that comes from God. And God does not need to be part of this universe since he created it out of love.

 

[TySixtus]

mikew262:

Ty, this may be none of our business and don’t answer if you don’t want too, but I’m curious. What was your family’s reaction to you declaring yourself an atheist, assuming you have told them? You said earlier, you were a practicing catholic, so I assume your family is also catholic.

I don’t want to derail this thread. If you start another one, I’ll gladly answer. PM me and tell me where you start the thread at.

Ty

 

[estesbob]

TySixtus:

I don’t “claim” to be an Atheist. I am an Atheist. Check here if don’t believe me.

I’ve been on for three years. And if my arguments are so weak, why aren’t you taking a shot at them instead of questioning my motives?

Bluntly, I’ll post at whatever message board I want.

Ty

No one is denying that can post to any message board you want. I just find it curious that one who clams to be an atheist posts on one. It makes me wonder who you are trying to convince there is no God. Me or you? I tend to lean towards the latter.

I will join in the discussion if you post anything other than the standard atehist 101 talking points.

 

[kev7]

TySixtus:

I guess if we were being semantic, sure. But the idea itself that is “cause” is contained in the universe. Prior to that, cause did not exist.

However, let’s say for the sake of argument that the universe is the Uncaused Cause. What now?

Ty

Again you need proof for everything.

Your own arguments fail to show the level of proof that you demand of us.

You my friend have only questions. doubt is the axiom by which you live. You have no answers - But you for some reason claim that you do.

There is "no sake of argument’ with God there is only love, peace and joy.

 

[TySixtus]

Maranatha:

Ty,

I’d like to add my thanks for posting here and congratulate you on your willingness to challenge your beliefs. I don’t begrudge you motives.

The Theory of Quantum Mechanics is directly opposed to the Theory of Relativity. Both are provable and mutually exclusive. Modern physics is primarily focused on reconciling the two. Until that happens, one or both of the theories will most likely be revised. Therefore, QM is not a good theory on which to base your philosophical views.

Cheers

Why is this not a good theory on which to base conclusions? Because it might be wrong? Apply that line of reasoning to your theology, then.

At the very least, thank you for not questioning my motives. That does get tiring after a while.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

kev7:

You said you would disprove any characteristic of our God.
We are telling you that one of those characteristics is love.

I guess you just admitted you are wrong without realizing it.

Yes you are right. Love does exist.

Wow. I actually had to stand up for a minute after I read this one.

I never said I woulnd’t prove true love existed. I said I would disprove that your god exhibited true love. Or any other trait.

Really, man, go back and read. This is absolutely not the discussion that was going on.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

Maranatha:

Atheists are not bound by a duty to be charitable or bound by any other moral precept but it is a requirement of this discussion board.

But it’s perfectly okay for that poster to call me an idiot? And furthermore, for other posters to impugn my motives and make accusations?

Really, some evenhandedness would be very Christian right about now.

Ty

 

[Verbum_Caro]

TySixtus:

I guess if we were being semantic, sure. But the idea itself that is “cause” is contained in the universe. Prior to that, cause did not exist.

However, let’s say for the sake of argument that the universe is the Uncaused Cause. What now?

Ty

Hi Ty, thanks for helping me understand your position. I was just attempting to clarify what you said way back in post #25:

TySixtus:

Again, this sentence is nonsense. There is no such thing as an uncaused cause. This is classic Catholic doublespeak. Are there square circles? Married bachelors?

I guess what I don’t quite understand is that you objected to the very notion of an uncaused cause, positing that it was nonsensical, and yet you seem to be positing the universe as an uncaused cause.

In post #28, my original post, I was trying to understand why you would object. I still don’t quite understand why you would call it “Catholic doublespeak” or hold that the phrase is inherently inconsistent as “square circle”.

I pointed out in #28 that surely an “*uncausing *cause” is inconsistent and nonsense, in the same way that a square circle is: that the definition of both words cancel each other out.

But I don’t see how “uncaused cause” is inherently a contradiction. You seem to also hold that there is no contradiction, at least as applied to the universe being without a cause and being itself the cause of all that exists.

What I do see as at least an apparent contradiction are your three statements:

1. 
   *]“There is no such thing as an uncause cause” (post #25) and
   *]“I guess if we were being semantic, sure” (post #85, in response to my query “Is the universe and uncaused cause?”) and
   *]your agreement in post #70 that the universe is at once both the FIRST cause and also uncaused, hence an “uncaused cause”.
   
   I was just curious as to why you objected to the idea and yet seem to hold it as well?
   
   Thank you for the discussion, Ty, and I hope it proves fruitful for all parties involved.
   VC

 

[Maranatha]

TySixtus:

Why is this not a good theory on which to base conclusions? Because it might be wrong? Apply that line of reasoning to your theology, then.

At the very least, thank you for not questioning my motives. That does get tiring after a while.

Ty

I base my philosophy on phisolophical argument not scientific arguments. These arguments have not change changed for thousands of years. If someone comes along and logically disproved them, then I’ll have to reconsider my physiological outlook.

 

[kev7]

TySixtus:

Wow. I actually had to stand up for a minute after I read this one.

I never said I woulnd’t prove true love existed. I said I would disprove that your god exhibited true love. Or any other trait.

Really, man, go back and read. This is absolutely not the discussion that was going on.

Ty

God is love.

ok… now go forth and do your proof…