There is no God

[Maranatha]

TySixtus:

But it’s perfectly okay for that poster to call me an idiot? And furthermore, for other posters to impugn my motives and make accusations?

Really, some evenhandedness would be very Christian right about now.

Ty

No it’s not O.K. for other posters to do that and you’d be perfectly in your rights to report them. You can do this by selecting the exclamation point in the upper right hand corner of any post and pointing out the lack of charity in the post.

My point was that they will have to answer to a higher authority as well as the board administrators.

 

[TySixtus]

kev7:

why is something that is so nonsensical something that you put so much faith in? How does being an atheist bring you closer to love? How does it fill your heart with joy? How does it give you peace and purpose?

Being atheist entails one thing: No belief in god.

The rest of you post is full of hollow euphemisms. “Closer to love”? How can one get “closer” to an absraction? “Fill my heart with joy”? My heart is filled with blood, much like yours.

Atheism is not a source of love, or joy, or peace, or purpose. It is simply a statement regarding belief in god.

I just got out of the Navy after six years. I have a six year old daughter whom I love very much. I’m starting a new career, might get my book published, am surrounded by my family and I have a wonderful girlfriend.

I get up in the morning free of health problems. I’ve got a functioning brain and body to match. I listen to music I like, eat the foods I enjoy, and engage in debate.

I love my life right now. I don’t need a god figure to “fill me with joy”.

Why do you?

Ty

 

[Strider]

TySixtus:

This is the same thing I post WRT the universe. Space and Time are properties of the universe. Ergo, it is not subject to those rules, as the rules spring from it’s actions.

The rub? If that’s all you guys have to say about god, I wouldn’t be on this board. You then want to add all this other stuff (see “Christianity” for more details) and us rational people are forced to debunk it.

You aren’t deists. So stop acting like you are. You don’t just claim that god created the universe and that’s all. There’s a whole bunch of other stuff you guys throw on top.

Ty

Yep, there’s a whole bunch of other stuff we throw on top, but we have to get the basics, first.
It is contradictory to claim that the universe itself is the uncaused cause. The uncaused cause did not cause itself, He is eternal and has no cause. The very adjective “uncaused” precludes self-causation.

 

[TySixtus]

estesbob:

No one is denying that can post to any message board you want. I just find it curious that one who clams to be an atheist posts on one. It makes me wonder who you are trying to convince there is no God. Me or you? I tend to lean towards the latter.

I’m hear to debate and discuss. Not be told what I want to hear. How often do you venture into the atheist forum, perhaps to see how your beliefs stand up?

I will join in the discussion if you post anything other than the standard atehist 101 talking points.

I’m sorry I’m not posting up to your standards.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

kev7:

I’m sorry, but again can you prove me that the universe IS everything that exists? How do you even know what everything is?

Because the universe, by definition, is everything that exists.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

kev7:

God is love.

So love includes killing babies?

This is easy.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

Verbum Caro:

I was just curious as to why you objected to the idea and yet seem to hold it as well?

Fair enough. I can see why you would think that I would support that, and in a way I do. It’s my fault for how I wrote it.

I do think that the universe could’ve popped into existence without a cause. QM certainly supports the theory of particles doing exactly that.

However, the universe contains the law of causality. Causality exists within it. It could be said that the universe does “cause” stuff to happen, inasmuch as everything that happens, happens in the universe. And by your reasoning, I am wrong and you are right.

Please accept my apologies, as I wasn’t clear enough when I wrote my original statement. And thanks for the effort you put into it.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

kev7:

Time is simply a property of your perception. I mean, if you can’t fully explain the nature of the universe in every detail and from every possible perception (of which as humans is limited) then how can you make these claims?

If your perceptions are limited, how can you claim to know anything about god?

Ty

 

[estesbob]

TySixtus:

I’m hear to debate and discuss. Not be told what I want to hear. How often do you venture into the atheist forum, perhaps to see how your beliefs stand up?

I’m sorry I’m not posting up to your standards.

Ty

Never. I dont need others to convince me that my beleifs stand up You evidently do- which is good news indeed. I will be praying for you… You are missing out on great joy and serenity by rejecting the Lord. God will be waiting with open arms when you come back.

 

[Maranatha]

tommyt_520:

Oh brother you guys watched the Matrix one too many times. Shame on any Catholics here trying to explain to an atheist about the causes of Gods creation. Go read Job and pray the Rosary. Talking about science is one thing but you not even sticking to that. If a cause is an uncaused effect that causes the effected cause…you sound like idiots. An atheist thinks he is smart because he does not have the disciplin to follow are Catholic life. An atheist will just say sticks and stones and thats a weak answere. And thats what they are-weak. All of a sudden when a Catholic decides to become atheist they think they are Platos favorite student. So…whith that being said, here is to all atheists:

how much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a would chuck could chuck wood.

OH!!! please use big words and include “cause”, “effect”, and “I need to stop begging for attention as an atheist on a Catholic forum”

I started another thread to discuss this opinoin.

 

[TySixtus]

estesbob:

Never. I dont need others to convince me that my beleifs stand up You evidently do- which is good news indeed. I will be praying for you… You are missing out on great joy and serenity by rejecting the Lord. God will be witing with open arms when you come back.

You misunderstand. I like to have my beliefs challenged. It’s educational to have an open mind. I don’t need anyone’s approval.

If you don’t need any approval yourself, why do you post here? I mean, if anything, people are going to agree with what you have to say. If comfort is what you desire, so be it. Do not begrudge those of us who seek other challenges.

Ty

 

[Verbum_Caro]

TySixtus:

Fair enough. I can see why you would think that I would support that, and in a way I do. It’s my fault for how I wrote it.

I do think that the universe could’ve popped into existence without a cause. QM certainly supports the theory of particles doing exactly that.

However, the universe contains the law of causality. Causality exists within it. It could be said that the universe does “cause” stuff to happen, inasmuch as everything that happens, happens in the universe. And by your reasoning, I am wrong and you are right.

Please accept my apologies, as I wasn’t clear enough when I wrote my original statement. And thanks for the effort you put into it.

Ty

No problem, Ty, thank you for trying to clarify and for being able to admit that dismissing the classic formulation of an “uncaused cause” out of hand may have been a bit hasty.

As to what, or Who, this uncaused cause is – this non-contingent being – well, that is for another discussion or perhaps for other posters in this thread to undertake.

I enjoyed our exchange, and I would like to commend to you a very good book called Theology and Sanity by Frank J. Sheed.

Although the author himself states that “This book is being written not to prove the truths of Christianity to those who do not hold them, but to aid those who do hold them in their exploration”, I think that you may find it useful as a very clear and accurate explanation and exploration of the world-view of the Catholic. Since you enjoy debate, you will appreciate Sheed’s ability to lay out the explanations with elegance.

Since it is not written, however, as a book to convince an atheist or non-Catholic, you may find it a refreshing and alternative view of the ideas we have been discussing.

I look forward to your continued participation on the forum here. Good luck and God Bless,
VC

 

[kev7]

TySixtus:

So love includes killing babies?

This is easy.

Ty

Why do you say that? As Catholics we are against abortion and killing babies. Even Christ warns us about harming children.

It is infact atheism that is responsible for killing babies.

 

[kev7]

TySixtus:

If your perceptions are limited, how can you claim to know anything about god?

Ty

I don’t claim to know anything about God. I would never do that.

I don’t claim to know God through my perceptions like you claim to have a valid perception of the universe.

It is only my faith in God and the truth of his message that fills my heart with joy.

I only proclaim the message of Christ which is the truth of God.

 

[estesbob]

kev7:

Why do you say that? As Catholics we are against abortion and killing babies. Even Christ warns us about harming children.

It is infact atheism that is responsible for killing babies.

He said it to get a rise out of you, Its as simple as that.

 

[TySixtus]

estesbob:

He said it to get a rise out of you, Its as simple as that.

See if you can follow me here.

Kev7 said that “god is love”.

God was responsible for murdering all the firstborn of Egypt.

If god is love, then love must include the desire to kill babies.

Really, this is all in your holy book.

Ty

 

[estesbob]

TySixtus:

See if you can follow me here.

Kev7 said that “god is love”.

God was responsible for murdering all the firstborn of Egypt.

If god is love, then love must include the desire to kill babies.

Really, this is all in your holy book.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

I don’t claim to know anything about God. I would never do that.

kev7:

God is love.

kev7:

We are telling you that one of those characteristics is love.

kev7:

We believe that God is pure love

kev7:

God is not part of this world and is therefore not subject to any worldly tests.

kev7:

God is such that even the simple can understand him.

kev7:

That is part of Gods plan.

For someone who claims that they don’t know anything about god, you seem to know an awful lot about god. And eager to tell me, too.

Ty

 

[TySixtus]

I accept your apology.

Ty

 

[Maranatha]

TySixtus:

See if you can follow me here.

Kev7 said that “god is love”.

God was responsible for murdering all the firstborn of Egypt.

If god is love, then love must include the desire to kill babies.

Really, this is all in your holy book.

Ty

Ty,

I think the logic goes like this:

If God created us then he loves us because if he didn’t love us he would not have created us.

To an atheist, death (annihilation) would be the worst possible punishment because it’s an absolute end. To a Catholic, death is merely the end of one phase of your existence.

The example you cited does not prove that God did not love the Egyptians or their babies. If fact the text explains the punishment was not meted out until multiple successive warnings to stop committing evil were given. As Catholics we assured the Egyptians and their first born were all given perfect justice at their particular judgement. (FYI, your particular judgement come immediately after your death as opposed to Judgement Day that comes for all at the end of time.)