There is no natural law... so kindly DROP it

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You may have heard it, but it’s not true.

A fact brought to you from your friendly CAF veterinarian. 😉
Well, thats even better again. It supports continued learning and development.

I found he title of this thread curious. Why would we DROP a core matter of our faith? Just because an anonymous forumite says we should do so, lol?

What does it matter to this forumite, I ask myself, if we believe in natural law or not? Perhaps it was just a provocative title to get people to discuss the notion…hey, it worked…I posted. 😃
It matters because the natural law he does not believe in is bothering him.
 
I have come to the conclusion that there is a natural law but , it is relative to the individual
which is determined at conception. …say a huge family exists like my own with 9 children…

Regardless all the children will associate to the mother differently right from birth. Control over the mother is hugely obvious but, are all baby’s alike in this self orientated behaviour…of course not. Therefore the born self is somewhat predetermined with respects to self obsession.

This opens the door to possible degrees of consciousness innate in each individual which I propose has nothing to do with intelligence.( in a direct absolute way that is) The clarity in conscious awareness of self, allows self to gain different comprehensions of other selfs in the initial experience’s of life…right from birth…so what does this mean exactly?

Well…self obsession can be linked with a concept of natural law. Join the dots and what do we have…all kinds of people with all kinds of idea’s about what natural law in fact is.

Again as in many instances everybody is right relative to their own ability to comprehend self relative to other selfs. Anyway…everything has to fit in when the dots are joined…its a matter of being reasonable…another reasonable idea is that we make things too complicated including this idea of God…
 
spock

**As a summary, I merely argue that humans learn a moral code, and do not have it as an inborn ability. **

Learning a moral code is an inborn ability, and therefore is part of our human nature. Not having a moral code is against our human nature and ultimately self-destructive.
 
Oh, yes it does. Some poster brings up the “natural law” every time a sexual question is presented.
How in the world does that imply that knowledge of natural law is inborn?
If that is the case then the phrase is even dumber than I thought.
Wait, you don’t actually know anything about natural law? That’s quite galling. At least do your homework on a thing before declaring that it’s stupid nonsense.
Where does our “nature” come from? Is it biologically determined? Is it something we gain via learning? Is it something that God imposed on us?
The nature of a thing derives from its essence – that without which it would not be what it is. The thing that is essential to man is his membership in the human race.
What has the “nature” of a serial killer have in common with the “nature” of Gandhi?
Their common humanity.
What you say simply pushes the question back: “what is our nature”? And how does the proposition that “if two people voluntarily engage in a sexual activity, which precludes the possibility of pregnancy” goes against the “natural law”?
To the extent that we are animals (i.e., beings capable of locomotion, nutrition, etc.), it follows that some of our faculties are explicitly physical and serve explicitly physical ends.

Our reproductive system, for instance, serves the end of reproduction. (Hence why it’s called the “reproductive system.”)

Natural law simply asserts that the goodness of a thing derives from how well it instantiates its essence. In moral terms, the goodness of an act derives from how well it accords with the *telos *of the faculties involved. The *telos *of our reproductive system is reproduction. Therefore, a morally licit sexual act is one that is consistent with the end of reproduction (meaning noncontraceptive, intravaginal ejaculation) and a morally illicit sexual act is one that intentionally subverts that end (i.e., masturbation, sodomy, contraception). There are other factors to consider but that is the gist of it.

As re: consent, I direct you to my post here. Consent is not sufficient to determine the morality of an action.
All the mathematical “truths” are relative and they are contingent upon the selected axioms.
They are not “relative” to anything; that’s absurd. They are absolute, given the axioms. This is why we *discover *mathematical truths rather than *invent *them.
 
spock

**As a summary, I merely argue that humans learn a moral code, and do not have it as an inborn ability. **

Learning a moral code is an inborn ability, and therefore is part of our human nature. Not having a moral code is against our human nature and ultimately self-destructive.
I don’t think that quite addresses the question, though. Having the ability to learn to speak a language doesn’t mean God created English. The moral code, itself, is already in place, according to the concept of natural law.
 
fhansen

**I don’t think that quite addresses the question, though. Having the ability to learn to speak a language doesn’t mean God created English. The moral code, itself, is already in place, according to the concept of natural law. **

Human thought and language (English or otherwise) also is already in place as an aspect of the natural law.

Otherwise we would have to say it is unnatural to think and communicate, which clearly is false.
 
fhansen

**I don’t think that quite addresses the question, though. Having the ability to learn to speak a language doesn’t mean God created English. The moral code, itself, is already in place, according to the concept of natural law. **

Human thought and language (English or otherwise) also is already in place as an aspect of the natural law.

Otherwise we would have to say it is unnatural to think and communicate, which clearly is false.
I understand, but the ability to learn a moral code is different than one already written in our consciences, no? To learn the code simply implies that we might accept whatever’s being taught. The ability to learn would be innate but not the content.
 
The nature of a thing derives from its essence – that without which it would not be what it is.
The concept of the “essence” is vague and undefined. There is no essence without an environment. My “essence” for the goverment is that I am a taxpayer. Nothing else matters for the IRA. My essence for my wife is that I love her. My tummy (which is not as flat as it used to be) is irrelevant to her. There is no “abstract essence” - that is just another nonsensical concoction of some medieval or ancient “philosopher”.
The thing that is essential to man is his membership in the human race.
DNA? Or something else?
Our reproductive system, for instance, serves the end of reproduction. (Hence why it’s called the “reproductive system.”)
And from that fact (which I do not dispute) it does not follow that every instance of performing the act MUST be “open” to the reproductive part. The fact that the higher apes (humans included) are not bound by the cycles of estrus, that we are able to perform the act any time shows clearly that there is no “single telos” in the act. A small part of it is procreation (about 5% of the intercourses leads to pregnancy) and a huge part of it is simple pleasure seeking. If we are to judge the importance of these two facets by their frequency, then pregnancy is next to irrelevant.
Natural law simply asserts that the goodness of a thing derives from how well it instantiates its essence.
Again, the nonsense of “essence”. What is the essence of an HIV virus? How well it instantiates its “essence” - destruction of the host? What is the essence of an H-bomb? How well it performs its designed “essence” - to kill as many people it can? If so, it must be really “morally very good” accoring to this idiotic “natural law”.
In moral terms, the goodness of an act derives from how well it accords with the *telos *of the faculties involved.
HIV virus? H-bomb? They must be really “morally good”…
The *telos *of our reproductive system is reproduction.
Therein lies your error. At best it is partially its “telos” (about 5% of the time). In the other 95% of the time it is pure pleasure seeking. If you could understand this simple little fact, we could develop a meaningful conversation. But as long as you dig in your heels and keep on parroting some senseless doctrine, there can be no conversation.
Therefore, a morally licit sexual act is one that is consistent with the end of reproduction (meaning noncontraceptive, intravaginal ejaculation) and a morally illicit sexual act is one that intentionally subverts that end (i.e., masturbation, sodomy, contraception). There are other factors to consider but that is the gist of it.
No “therefore”, since your starting argument is already wrong.
As re: consent, I direct you to my post here. Consent is not sufficient to determine the morality of an action.
I answered it there.
They are not “relative” to anything; that’s absurd. They are absolute, given the axioms. This is why we *discover *mathematical truths rather than *invent *them.
Not absurd at all. They are relative to the axioms - which are arbitrary. Obviously you are not a mathematician, but I am. We create the axioms, and we discover where they lead. We invented the pieces and the rules of chess, and we discover where those pieces and rules lead us.
 
This is for Spock and T.S.

Can you give me on example of Human like altruism in other animals? So for example: giving to the poor? Or help build a house for someone they might never interact with? Not a simple I scratch your back, and you scratch my back scenario; however a scenario where helping out another person will potentially have very little little benefit to yourself, or none at all.

Also, guessing you both are moral relativist meaning you don’t think morality is an absolute truth, and has no context out of the culture it’s learned. (If I’m wrong about your moral stance pardon me.)

Can you tell me at least one nation in past, or maybe modern world, where they value rape? Also, do you ever think there is a scenario where rape would be necessarily? If so, could you outline your position for me?

Note: I’m a current student at Michigan State University as a Biochemistry & Biotechnology major so I have a slight idea about science.
 
The concept of the “essence” is vague and undefined. There is no essence without an environment. My “essence” for the goverment is that I am a taxpayer. Nothing else matters for the IRA. My essence for my wife is that I love her. My tummy (which is not as flat as it used to be) is irrelevant to her. There is no “abstract essence” - that is just another nonsensical concoction of some medieval or ancient “philosopher”.
I just said: the essence of a thing is that without which it would not be what it is.

Hence it is hardly reasonable to say that your wife would not exist if you did not love her. She would still exist, because she is a human being and the existence of a human being is in no way conditional on the love of another human being.

There is hardly anything here to object to. To deny that there is an essence of man which is distinct from the essence of, say, a starfish is to say that there is no meaningful basis for distinguishing between the two. Yet clearly there is, because I can refer to a “man” or a “starfish” and there is no confusion regarding what I’m speaking of.
DNA? Or something else?
That’s certainly one way of looking at it. Membership in the human race is what is essential to making something a “human.” This is so obvious it’s functionally tautological.
And from that fact (which I do not dispute) it does not follow that every instance of performing the act MUST be “open” to the reproductive part. The fact that the higher apes (humans included) are not bound by the cycles of estrus, that we are able to perform the act any time shows clearly that there is no “single telos” in the act.
As it happens sex also has the effect of bringing couples closer together. But why does it do this? Because the procreative imperative inherent in the sexual faculty necessitates it. This is a simple evolutionary fact. Therefore the unitive aspect of sex is necessarily subordinate to the procreative.

And thus every sexual act must be had in a manner consistent with the end of procreation – i.e., noncontraceptive, intravaginal ejaculation.
A small part of it is procreation (about 5% of the intercourses leads to pregnancy) and a huge part of it is simple pleasure seeking. If we are to judge the importance of these two facets by their frequency, then pregnancy is next to irrelevant.
That’s why we don’t judge them that way.

Again, the unitive aspect of sex derives from the procreative (in a very real sense they are one and indistinct).
Again, the nonsense of “essence”. What is the essence of an HIV virus?
What is the thing (or things) without which the HIV virus would not be the HIV virus?
How well it instantiates its “essence” - destruction of the host? What is the essence of an H-bomb? How well it performs its designed “essence” - to kill as many people it can? If so, it must be really “morally very good” accoring to this idiotic “natural law”.
Morality is the application of natural law to human behavior, so no, it’s not meaningful to talk about a bomb being *morally *good. It is certainly meaningful, though, to say that, for instance, a bomb is a “dud” if it doesn’t explode, since exploding is its purpose; that statement would not be meaningful unless there were an objective ideal regarding what a bomb is supposed to do. Likewise, when I say I have a “bad heart” I don’t mean that my heart is wicked or sinful – only that it is failing to instantiate the essence of a heart, the purpose of which is to circulate blood effectively throughout the body. Or when I say “this is a good pen,” I don’t mean that the pen is morally upright but that it satisfies its telos very well, which is writing. Or when I call clubfoot a “birth defect,” which is a meaningless judgment unless there is a norm from which clubfoot deviates. And so on.
Not absurd at all. They are relative to the axioms - which are arbitrary. Obviously you are not a mathematician, but I am. We create the axioms, and we discover where they lead. We invented the pieces and the rules of chess, and we discover where those pieces and rules lead us.
They are absolute given the axioms. This is why it is meaningful to say that we “discover” mathematical truths.

We did not make up the fact that 2 + 2 = 4. It is simply a fact which we discovered. 2 + 2 would continue to equal 4 even if no one were around to perceive this fact. Hence they are *objective facts *arising from the nature of reality itself. That we set the axioms that impose limitations on our inquiries does not change this fact.
 
I question your suggestion that biology creates a tabula rasa. Take, for example, incest. Anthropologically speaking I’m unaware of a single culture which endorses incest. In fact our natural aversion to incest is what gives us the Westermarck Effect. So there are certain taboos that exist regardless of culture.

I’m sure you’ll give the ultimate explanation as evolutionary in nature. That’s fine, but realize that as Catholics we believe that God has overseen, intended and approved of what has occurred through natural selection. In this way God has written natural law upon our hearts, but not in the way you might have expected.
 
A small part of it is procreation (about 5% of the intercourses leads to pregnancy) and a huge part of it is simple pleasure seeking. If we are to judge the importance of these two facets by their frequency, then pregnancy is next to irrelevant.
But stop and think why sex is pleasurable in the first place. It is pleasurable because evolution has selected for people that experience it as pleasurable. That characteristic has a huge evolutionary advantage. But only because it leads to procreation. It is not hard to imagine what would happen if sex and procreation were radically uncoupled. The pleasure associated with sex would eventually (after thousands of years) be bred out of us as an unproductive tendency. Pleasure in sex would become an evolutionary disadvantage rather than an advantage. You enjoy sex now because hundreds of generations before you lived so that sex and procreation were tightly coupled. So from a purely secular point of view, you should see that the very desire for sex itself is a product of the relevance of pregnancy.
 
I do think some things are over and beyond the facts of reality. Science is always discovering more and more things but still does not know everything, and everything is God. I think science will be like the tower of Babel in that respect. Why would God allow human beings to be vain enough to build a tower that reaches the heavens? God lets us know what he lets us know. Everything else is faith.

I do believe in natural law. And I do believe there is evil in this good world. If we weren’t effected by original sin, there’d be no need for war, conflict, or even this argument right here. There’d be none of it, because in everyone, even in the most faithful of Christians, there still is that rebelliousness. We must all keep praying and pray hard.
 
This site is really confusing
By all these statements, The Rythem method (encouraged by RC)…will put someone in hell I suppose…its just all so ridiculous here …oh yes i forgot…you don’t understand FS…

Thank God and good riddens
 
There is hardly anything here to object to. To deny that there is an essence of man which is distinct from the essence of, say, a starfish is to say that there is no meaningful basis for distinguishing between the two. Yet clearly there is, because I can refer to a “man” or a “starfish” and there is no confusion regarding what I’m speaking of.
The above can also be explained with the concept of “abstraction.” While the concept has it’s place in philosophy (and I only discovered that recently) it’s in integral part of other ares and I cam to know of it through Computer Science about 15 years ago.

An abstraction is a concept that encompasses attributes which are relevant to what is being discussed or examined and are thus context dependent. The properties assigned to an abstraction are generally assumed in a conversation. If I say “I saw a man jogging” a likely assumption one might make is that the man has two legs. But other attributes of the man may go undefined such as his age, occupation, or country of birth. As the attributes become more constrained and better defined the abstraction can be said to be made less abstract (or more concrete). The most concrete form of which (an instantiation) would be a specific person.

Though in either case that something is an abstraction or that something is included in somethings essence are both somewhat factitious; the concepts of “essence” and “abstractions” are both human inventions and thus are subject to how we want to classify things.
And thus every sexual act must be had in a manner consistent with the end of procreation – i.e., noncontraceptive, intravaginal ejaculation.
Wouldn’t the fact that not all sexual acts are performed in this manner reduce the truth value of the above statement?
It is not hard to imagine what would happen if sex and procreation were radically uncoupled. The pleasure associated with sex would eventually (after thousands of years) be bred out of us as an unproductive tendency. Pleasure in sex would become an evolutionary disadvantage rather than an advantage.
I don’t think lack of productive value is justification for that prediction. People enjoy engaging in many activities that may consider to be of very little productive value such as watching TV, playing video games, or painting. If we consider if people find sex or any of these other activities of any value at all then we will find that many people do. Now if you had presented a situation where the pleasure was removed from sex instead of the productive value then I could see a reduction in overall sexual activity since one of the main incentives for it would no longer be present. That’s not to say that people would give it up all together.
 
Wouldn’t the fact that not all sexual acts are performed in this manner reduce the truth value of the above statement?
You are misunderstanding sw85’s use of the word “must”. Using your interpretation of that word you might level the same sort of criticism to the statement “You must not rape” by observing that some people do in fact rape, therefore reducing the truth value of that statement.
I don’t think lack of productive value is justification for that prediction…(sex ceasing to be enjoyable)
My prediction was only a theoretical one. In practice the time scale necessary for major evolutionary change based on a lack of productivity of an activity would mean that mankind would likely cease to exist before we would stop enjoying sex. But you cannot deny that the productivity of sex over the eons goes a long way toward explaining why sex evokes pleasure today.
 
fhansen

**I understand, but the ability to learn a moral code is different than one already written in our consciences, no? To learn the code simply implies that we might accept whatever’s being taught. The ability to learn would be innate but not the content. **

The ability to learn would be innate. The specific content, to do good and do no evil, is also innate. Beyond that, reason, since it is innate, would help us to learn the specific content of right and wrong. Reason would not tell us to do evil and do no good unless reason had been twisted out of its natural inclination to those perverse ends.

Reason (common sense) tells us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. That is the natural content of morality. The unnatural content of immorality would be to do unto others before they do it unto us. Those who follow the natural law are more likely to survive and prosper than those who follow the unnatural law.

The paramount law of our biological nature is to survive and prosper. That is why homosexuality, for example, is against the natural law … it goes against reproduction and favors death by various and sundry diseases. So do drug abuse, alcoholism, prostitution, homicide, suicide, abortion, etc. go against the content of the natural law that says survive and prosper.

However, there is a supernatural law that transcends the natural law. It consists of preaching love so powerful that you would lay down your life for a friend. The supernatural law trumps the natural law.
 
But you cannot deny that the productivity of sex over the eons goes a long way toward explaining why sex evokes pleasure today.
I got no plans to. It’s much like the evolutionary explanation for why people like sweets and how naturally occurring things that were sweet were rich in simple carbohydrates that may have been difficult to find.

But that makes me think, if some one eats something sweetened with artificial sweeteners and zero calories would that be a violation of what is natural ( ? ).
 
Hi Touchstone;
I was wondering if you could tell me where you are getting your understanding from of natural law, because it doesn’t really reflect my understanding. What are your primary sources? I don’t mean straw man caricatures like the ones we see in this blog, but going back to the originators of natural law argument, which sources are you relying on? Perhaps if we start with the sources we might have a more meaningful dialogue.
Hi Acapiteadcalcem,

Prior to college, my education on natural law came primarily from Paul of Tarsus in the Bible (I was raised in a Bible-obsessed evangelical home) and CS Lewis treatment of the subject, via The Abolition of Man and Mere Christianity, among I’m sure other works of his that spoke to natural that escape me now. In college, the focus turned toward Aristotle, The Nicomachean Ethics, and with some follow up on Aquinas’ taking up The Philosopher’s ideas on natural law. Beyond college I was pretty much a theology slut, wandering lasciviously from Reformers like Luther and Calvin and Vermigle (two kingdoms model, etc.) to political thinkers like Locke and Jefferson, and later, as I abandoned Protestant and prepared to become a Catholic, Catholic thinkers like (a revisited Aquinas), the CCC, JPII’s Theology of the Body and – what was his name? Hadley Arkes is an interesting thinker on natural law, and comes at it from a Catholic position.

So that’s all over the map, but as a theology junkie recovering now after decades of mainlining it, I’ve got a pretty good amount of experience from esteemed sources on that line of thinking.
I’d also be interested to see what your justification is for refering to natural law as a ‘superstition’.
It’s not really – Christians have just gotten lazy with the word, having been fairly successful in employing the term against superstitious rivals (like VooDoo) while maintaining a hypocritical position that they aren’t trafficking in superstition themselves.

Superstition is just the belief in supernatural causality. Given that, it’s not that big a claim at all, or even controversial on the merits. Christians are just used to feeling privileged to a special exemption for no reason other than social hegemony on the use of that term. But natural law in the Christian view is intensely, profoundly superstitious. It’s literally as good an example as is to be found in terms of depth and width of superstition.
That’s quite a big claim. But if you have documentary evidence for this, can you share it with us?
Sure, just off the top of my head (oh the joys of growing up in that Bible-obsessed home!):
Romans 2
14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these, having not the law, are a law to themselves. 15 Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them: and their thoughts between themselves accusing or also defending one another, 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
(my emphasis)

There you have it, God has written his law in our hearts! Superstition alarm! Bzzzt!
I would imagaine that such documentary evidence would include direct quotes from the original thinkers behind natural law, or from some official Church document, which clearly shows a link between superstition and natural law.
Well, tell me what you think of Paul of Tarsus as a source, and we’ll go from there. He was as superstitious as one gets. Googly-eyed superstitious, that guy.
Can you provide this documentary evidence? You talk a lot about being scientific and rational, and I totally agree with you; we have to face the facts in a rational way. So let’s do that: let’s critically examine your documentary evidence because everything in your blog up to this point is just bare assertion (and I’m sure you’ll agree that would not pass muster in any scientific discipline). Let’s get some academic rigor into the argument…if you in fact can. I’d be very happy to have that conversation with you.
OK, tell me if you want to impeach Paul – I think that’s sufficient right there to put this point to bed, but… – and we’ll go from there. Many of the later thinkers rely on Paul, and heavily, so this seems a good approach, to go right to a foundational Christian source. I can pull out my notes and go look up Aquinas, leveraging Paul with a bromide of Aristotle mixed in for yuks, etc., but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

-TS
 
I think we have a misunderstanding. Obviously humans are not “completely empty” even at birth. We are “imbued” with the necessary reflexes, the ability to breathe, to eat, etc. What we do not have is the innate ability to speak, to walk, and zillions of learned abilities and traits. We do not have the inborn ability to read, to conceptualize, to make conscious decisions, after all these activities require a much more complex brain than what a newborn has. However, we have the inborn ability to learn - which is the most important trait of all. Of course this ability varies from individual to individual.
Well, I think that’s not a well rounded view of human biology/psychology. Human babies cry sympathetically, at just days or hours old, with other babies crying. It’s not a product of a well-developed theory of mind, and the babe is not capable of articulating or differentiating those emotions. But that is the primary point here. Humans are hard-wired, from birth to do this, every bit as much as the babe is hardwired to instinctually suck when put to Mother’s breast.

It’s not a learned response, and that empathic response, rudimentary though it is in a newborn, is the foundation for huge parts of the moral edifice that gets built on top of it as a moral framework. And this framework gets built inevitably, no matter what you teach the child. The human is intrinsically moral, or as is said in homage to Chomsky’s ideas about an intrinsic ‘linguistic grammar’ in humans, humans have a “moral grammar”, a set of instincts that are distinctively and unavoidably moral in nature. Frans de Waal’s Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved is a particular good resource to get at if wish to review this area of inquiry. Not only is it good on the human side, but because it’s de Waal, it’s exceptionally strong in connecting that to our natural cousins on the Tree of Life, the other primates. They, too are “wired for morality”, in their respective species-specific ways.

All of which is not to deny the vast “open spaces” the “Third Chimpanzee” brings to the table developmentally. Humans build ornate, exotic moral structures on top of that. But all of that superstructure is just more testimony to the moral infrastructure that humans rest it on.
I don’t think so. Children are inherently selfish.
Well, there you go. That’s a moral position right there, and one that ramifies right on through adulthood and maturity. Like empathy, these impulses and instincts are visceral and they compete and interact in complex ways in humans, and in increasingly more complex ways as the human child develops cognitively.
We have to train them that sharing is good.
I won’t dispute that, as the father of six children – although I know from that experience that child are often kind, sympathetic, compassionate and sharing before they can be taught any such concept, too – but your observation misses the transcendental salient here: that there is good to train them presumes the “moral grammar” of the child. It’s a bit like that ‘fish is so in the water he doesn’t know he’s in the water’ thing: to talk about ‘teaching morality’ is to presume a moral disposition and capacity in the child in the first place.

This is where Christians get all confused and superstitious. This is where science and rational thinking are discovering morality as a endemic feature of human/primate evolution.
Children are also inherently cruel - probably because they lack the ability to “put themselves into the other person’s shoes”.
Observably, they don’t lack such abilities. Again, a 6 month old child will “put themselves in the other baby’s diapers” so to speak, and cry sympathetically with a nearby baby who is crying. Cruelty is a moral disposition, too, and this applies to humans as adults as well as children, which I’m sure you know all too well, as do I.

Scientifically, the “lacks ability” hypothesis doesn’t work, because so much evidence exists for empathetic and sympathetic behavior in the same children, and from the earliest ages. The model that accounts for what we observe is one where the egocentric urges compete with other prosocial urges, and work themselves out in complex ways. A display of cruelty doesn’t deny the capacity for empathy, but rather points to the prevalence of selfish and egocentric urges over more prosocial urges in that particular instance.
There are pschopaths and sociopatchs, without any empathy. I don’t think it is true that those “human monsters” are really “sweet, loving persons” on the inside, they just suppress it for whatever reason.
I don’t think that’s the case, either. But that again supports my point; We describe such a person as “sociopathic” precisely because their psychology is anamolous, aberrent. It’s because humans are naturally empathetic and social that we classify them as morally/socially problematic when they are missing those inclinations.
As a summary, I merely argue that humans learn a moral code, and do not have it as an inborn ability.
I think this may be resolved by understanding that the innate ability to “learn a moral code” (if we understand here that ‘moral code’ is something more detailed and structured than a toddler can grok conceptually) is ITSELF evidence and manifestation of the moral nature of humans, biologically/physiologically.

-TS
 
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