There is no 'right' religion

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

It’s funny you should say that. Four of my lecturers are priests and people on these chatrooms have told me they are wrong.

While I obviously can’t speak for every priest, it is worth noting that the Sacrament of Holy Orders does not automatically mean that every priest will always speak the truth. Martin Luther was a priest. Today there are priests that support gay marriage, female ordination, and even abortion. However, when questions arise it’s still wise to talk to your priest. After that, I’m finding a wealth of information on the Internet. You still have to be careful though. There are Sedevacanist websites and even in chatrooms like these there are people who make statements of fact that are actually wrong. On matters of your soul and where you’ll spend eternity it is crucial to get the right information.

 

[minkymurph]

Hi Minky,

If I understand my history correctly, the Pharisees were more of a spiritual movement; it would have been the Saducees who exercised the objective authority. It is noteworthy that He did tell people to continue to respect the authority of the time, even though it was very corrupt and on the brink of being replaced by the Church.

There is no comparison between the corrupted leadership of Jesus’ time and our own leadership. There are no priests or bishops who would conspire to have someone crucified. I know a number of priests, and may well disagree with how many of them exercise their authority, but I know none who (IMO) has “no love”, or who is an abusive, controlling individual. I won’t say it never happens, but it is the exception. I see in some Catholics an unrealistic perfectionism; unless all priests and bishops are saints they are going to complain or distance themselves from the Church. I don’t understand the attitude. Anyway, I have enough to do making myself into a saint.

That’s how I would understand it as well. The point I was making is having the ‘right’ religion doesn’t make you a good person. I believe God shows more mercy to a person who believes things that may not be true but tries to live as a Christian, than someone who has all their theological ‘i’s’ and ‘t’s’ crossed but is untruthful, dishonest and cruel. This is what makes me ask if it’s so important to be in the ‘right’ religion.

Catholics probably do have an unrealistic perfectionism. However, I don’t think that’s unique to Catholicism. Most religions have unrealistic expectations of their leaders which is why they are devastated when they find out they are human. I could readily accept human failing. Abusing children, and I don’t just mean sexually, I mean physically and psychologically as well, is not what I would call a human failing. But as you say, not all priests are guilty of that and I would like to think the majority of people full stop would not conspire to have someone who was innocent crucified. Even a traditionalist.

Joking!!!

 

[Denise1957]

He pronounced the seven woes against them because they exercised their authority in an unloving way.

If you don’t mind me asking, where did you get this idea from?

 

[minkymurph]

While I obviously can’t speak for every priest, it is worth noting that the Sacrament of Holy Orders does not automatically mean that every priest will always speak the truth. Martin Luther was a priest. Today there are priests that support gay marriage, female ordination, and even abortion. However, when questions arise it’s still wise to talk to your priest. After that, I’m finding a wealth of information on the Internet. You still have to be careful though. There are Sedevacanist websites and even in chatrooms like these there are people who make statements of fact that are actually wrong. On matters of your soul and where you’ll spend eternity it is crucial to get the right information.

Well, I can certainly say the priests at my college do not support gay marriage, female ordination or abortion. Abortion is actually still illegal here and in the last referendum, that’s what people wanted.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

Well, I can certainly say the priests at my college do not support gay marriage, female ordination or abortion. Abortion is actually still illegal here and in the last referendum, that’s what people wanted.

Thank God for that. We’re working on making it illegal here too. Please remember to include the Pro Life movement in your prayers.

My point being a Roman collar does not guarantee fidelity to the Magisterium. However, you’re probably on the right path.

 

[Denise1957]

That’s how I would understand it as well. The point I was making is having the ‘right’ religion doesn’t make you a good person. I believe God shows more mercy to a person who believes things that may not be true but tries to live as a Christian, than someone who has all their theological ‘i’s’ and ‘t’s’ crossed but is untruthful, dishonest and cruel. This is what makes me ask if it’s so important to be in the ‘right’ religion.

Catholics probably do have an unrealistic perfectionism. However, I don’t think that’s unique to Catholicism. Most religions have unrealistic expectations of their leaders which is why they are devastated when they find out they are human. I could readily accept human failing. Abusing children, and I don’t just mean sexually, I mean physically and psychologically as well, is not what I would call a human failing. But as you say, not all priests are guilty of that and I would like to think the majority of people full stop would not conspire to have someone who was innocent crucified. Even a traditionalist.

Joking!!!

Are you saying, that after taking the time to write the above two paragraphs, that it is just a joke, and you don’t really believe these things? Why would you say these things (and the last two sentences seem cruel, IMO), if you do not really mean it?

 

[minkymurph]

Are you saying, that after taking the time to write the above two paragraphs, that it is just a joke, and you don’t really believe these things? Why would you say these things (and the last two sentences seem cruel, IMO), if you do not really mean it?

No. The only joke was the bit about being a traditionalist.

I have come to the conclusion that the internet has destroyed the notion of ‘Sola Scriptura’ because it has demonstrated just how easy it is to take something out of context. Particularly when you don’t know the person who wrote it, their intension, conversations and experiences they had prior to what they said, their audience, the culture they lived, in the socio-political backdrop…etc etc.

In other words, we need guidance.

 

[minkymurph]

If you don’t mind me asking, where did you get this idea from?

I explained this in another post but I think we can conclude from the Gospels that Jesus didn’t think the Pharisees, or most of the religious leaders of his day, were very loving.

Of course if someone wants to provide evidence from the Gospels they were, I’m willing to consider it.

 

[Denise1957]

No. The only joke was the bit about being a traditionalist.

I have come to the conclusion that the internet has destroyed the notion of ‘Sola Scriptura’ because it has demonstrated just how easy it is to take something out of context. Particularly when you don’t know the person who wrote it, their intension, conversations and experiences they had prior to what they said, their audience, the culture they lived, in the socio-political backdrop…etc etc.

In other words, we need guidance.

No, you cannot wiggle out of it so easily. It is wrong to accuse Catholics here of being cruel, and then doing the same thing yourself - and then qualifying it by saying that it is just a joke. Either you are being insincere, or you do not understand the definition of Charity in the Catholic sense.

 

[minkymurph]

Forgot to add, the Internet probably dispels any notion one sentence from the Bible should be interpreted literally.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Forgot to add, the Internet probably dispels any notion one sentence from the Bible should be interpreted literally.

The internet dispels any notion on anything. Don’t readily believe everything on the internet. A great deal of information on the internet is just opinion, not fact.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

I have come to the conclusion that the internet has destroyed the notion of ‘Sola Scriptura’ because it has demonstrated just how easy it is to take something out of context. .

Ha! Love it! Mind if I use it?

 

[minkymurph]

No, you cannot wiggle out of it so easily. It is wrong to accuse Catholics here of being cruel, and then doing the same thing yourself - and then qualifying it by saying that it is just a joke. Either you are being insincere, or you do not understand the definition of Charity in the Catholic sense.

I’m not wiggling out of anything. I did not accuse anyone of anything on this forum of anything. I’ve had far worse things said to me on this forum and accused of far more than I’ve ever been guilty of.

It was certainly not my intention to be cruel, but If you want to believe it was and jump to conclusions about a person you don’t know from Adam, in that they are insincere or have no understanding of the definition of Charity in the Catholic sense based on one thing they wrote in a post, that’s your prerogative. What exactly is it you want me to say?

 

[minkymurph]

Ha! Love it! Mind if I use it?

Feel free!

 

[Denise1957]

I’m not wiggling out of anything. I did not accuse anyone of anything on this forum of anything. I’ve had far worse things said to me on this forum and accused of far more than I’ve ever been guilty of.

It was certainly not my intention to be cruel, but If you want to believe it was and jump to conclusions about a person you don’t know from Adam, in that they are insincere or have no understanding of the definition of Charity in the Catholic sense based on one thing they wrote in a post, that’s your prerogative. What exactly is it you want me to say?

Could you please explain what you meant by saying that:

…“But as you say, not all priests are guilty of that and I would like to think the majority of people full stop would not conspire to have someone who was innocent crucified. Not even a traditionalist.”

 

[minkymurph]

Could you please explain what you meant by saying that:

…“But as you say, not all priests are guilty of that and I would like to think the majority of people full stop would not conspire to have someone who was innocent crucified. Not even a traditionalist.”

To begin, this post is not a stand-alone post. It was a continuation of several posts and I was actually agreeing with what the poster I was responding to said - someone who conspires to have someone crucified would be an extreme exception to the rule and not the norm, and very few people would actually do something like that.

Irish people get teased about being stupid. Sometimes people say to me, ‘not even someone who’s Irish would be that stupid.’ I also get teased in college about were I live. People say to me, ‘nothing good ever come out of that town.’ I know it’s only good-natured teasing or as we say in this part of the world, ‘banter.’ Traditionalist Catholics get stereotyped just as Irish people do and when I said not even a traditionalist would conspire to have someone crucified I was ‘bantering.’ Meaning, I was not serious about that one statement, not the rest of the post.

 

[Denise1957]

To begin, this post is not a stand-alone post. It was a continuation of several posts and I was actually agreeing with what the poster I was responding to said - someone who conspires to have someone crucified would be an extreme exception to the rule and not the norm, and very few people would actually do something like that.

Irish people get teased about being stupid. Sometimes people say to me, ‘not even someone who’s Irish would be that stupid.’ I also get teased in college about were I live. People say to me, ‘nothing good ever come out of that town.’ I know it’s only good-natured teasing or as we say in this part of the world, ‘banter.’ Traditionalist Catholics get stereotyped just as Irish people do and when I said not even a traditionalist would conspire to have someone crucified I was ‘bantering.’ Meaning, I was not serious about that one statement, not the rest of the post.

Thank you for the explanation. I know it seems like a little thing for me to complain about, but it’s being charitable even in the little things that makes us Catholic, even if others are, at times, uncharitable to us.

Go mbannai Dia duit

 

[minkymurph]

Thank you for the explanation. I know it seems like a little thing for me to complain about, but it’s being charitable even in the little things that makes us Catholic, even if others are, at times, uncharitable to us.

Go mbannai Dia duit

Well obviously you didn’t see it as a little thing or you would not have made the response you did and that being the case, you are right to seek clarification to gain deeper insight into the posters intension. It was charitable of you to give someone the chance to explain and accept their explanation. It is also a sign of mature faith to be charitable when someone was is else is being uncharitable and if you can be charitable in small things, you have a better chance of being charitable in bigger things, You obviously value being charitable which a very commendable quality. I would rather have someone speak out and say ‘I don’t like what you said’ and give me a chance rather than say nothing and let misunderstandings fester and cause a person to jump to all sorts of conclusions that were never intended.

‘Go mbannai Dia duit.’ Is that Latin? Sorry, don’t know any Latin apart from unsavory expressions! One of the problems of being a convert. Being raised in a very Protestant part of Belfast I don’t know any Irish either - apart from the Irish National Anthem because I went to so many rugby matches. In my part of the world the Mass is sometimes said in Irish on St Patrick’s Day. I’ve been to Masses said in French, which fortunately I have a certain command of, and Portuguese. The good thing about being Catholic is you still know what’s going on which demonstrates the universality of our faith and one of the reasons why I’m not so hot on it being in Latin. I have been at Masses in the Vatican and parts were sang in Latin. I’m not against it, I just can’t join in 'cos I don’t know much Latin. One of the most moving Masses I was ever at was said in the Catecombes. We stood on the very spot were people were killed for saying the Mass.

 

[minkymurph]

The internet dispels any notion on anything. Don’t readily believe everything on the internet. A great deal of information on the internet is just opinion, not fact.

It’s a true saying that a little knowledge is dangerous. There is so much information out there people don’t know what to believe anymore.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

‘Go mbannai Dia duit.’ Is that Latin? Sorry, don’t know any Latin apart from unsavory expressions! One of the problems of being a convert. Being raised in a very Protestant part of Belfast I don’t know any Irish either - apart from the Irish National Anthem because I went to so many rugby matches. In my part of the world the Mass is sometimes said in Irish on St Patrick’s Day. I’ve been to Masses said in French, which fortunately I have a certain command of, and Portuguese. The good thing about being Catholic is you still know what’s going on which demonstrates the universality of our faith and one of the reasons why I’m not so hot on it being in Latin. I have been at Masses in the Vatican and parts were sang in Latin. I’m not against it, I just can’t join in 'cos I don’t know much Latin. One of the most moving Masses I was ever at was said in the Catecombes. We stood on the very spot were people were killed for saying the Mass.

So if you don’t know Irish, and Irish is used for Mass on St. Patrick’s Day that means you don’t understand what is being said, correct? Besides English you can follow along in French and Portuguese, that’s great. Living in Europe you can easily travel around and experience Mass in many languages, yet you wouldn’t understand them. Now what if you learned liturgical Latin? Then you could go to a Latin Mass anywhere in the world and know exactly what was being said. Wouldn’t that prove the word catholic is synonymous with universal?