There is no 'right' religion

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

One true religion? How could it be otherwise? Even Paul answered this question “one Lord, one faith and one baptism”. Eph4:5

Precisely. In Matthew 16 Jesus gave the only set of keys to Heaven to St. Peter with the authority to bind in loosen on Earth and Heaven.

 

[Robert_Burns]

I sense a love for GOD in your words and a hatred for hypocrisy in your words. Now when I speak of Hell and Damnation to you , it isnt as a threat, But Hell is reality. Just as Purgatory is reality. Just as Heaven is reality. I would be a liar if i didnt mention these things. Does GOD hold our salvation over our heads as a threat or does he hold our Salvation over our heads so as to make us realize the gravity of our actions in our lives? Really , the choice between Heaven and Hell is a no brainer. So what in this world is worth ones soul in exchange for it. Ultimately , we will all stand before GOD. That is reality.

So when i speak of Heave and Hell - I stress neither - instead I relate the reality of eternity. Hell is no threat unles someone merits going there. Show me someone threatened by Hell , and I’ll show you someone who knows of GOD’s Love and yet thinks they may be headed there. So are they threatened because i mewntioned the reality of Hell or are they threatened because of their shortcomings before GOD Who is their Judge and not me. I too will be judged. In that we are equal as is every other man woman and child. Ignoring the realities of the Next life will not make them go away. We are left to deal with these realities in this life whether we like them or not. And in order to have sanctifying grace in our Soul - what does the Church teach us to do? Live the Commandments? As opposed to not? I see that as a no brainer as well. I fail to see anything wrong with living ones life moral and good.

Pax*

 

[minkymurph]

I didn’t become Catholic because I wanted friends fair weather or otherwise. I lost a lot of friends when I became Catholic. I have already been in the position were the going got tough and I was alone. I do sense a great deal of sincerity in your words and I believe you don’t mean to condemn me as a person. You wouldn’t have said 'may your path be to salvation and pax if that was not the case. However, I don’t respond readily to scare tactics such as; ‘you’ll have no friends and go to Hell.’ Is that all the Catholic faith has to offer? I don’t think you mean it like that, but when people use those arguments, it can sound like scaremongering. I readily admit I could be reading something into your words you don’t mean. Happens to me all the time on these forums. I’m not saying my opinions, which is what they are right, but I’m confident that God knows why I struggle as I do in a way no one else could understand. I suppose I did expect to be slammed a bit on this forum for what I said, and why not? If it’s any consolation, I have got a lot out of this discussion. Can’t say much more without getting too personal.

That pretty much sums it up. Perhaps I don’t have as big a problem with the organization of religion as I think.

*

Neither do I. I suppose what I was getting at is that some people focus so much on avoiding damnation they miss out on the fulfillment of self and others that living a moral and good life brings. Heaven and Hell are realities, but we should not live in fear of damnation if we are genuinely seeking God. People who are not genuinely seeking God probably don’t care and will never have a fulfilling life.*

 

[The_Old_Medic]

minkymurph, it sounds very much like you have already lost your faith, if you ever really ha dit.

If you truly believe that there is no “right religion”, then you have no faith at all. It is really that simple.

You can call yourself whatever you wish to call yourself, but you obviously do not accept either the teachings or the faith of the Roman Catholic Church. That is sad, for you. It means you either never learned your faith, or that you made your “profession of faith” with reservations, which completely invalidates that process.

You may well be many things, but with the beliefs that you express, you are NOT a Roman Catholic.

 

[Robert_Burns]

Neither do I. I suppose what I was getting at is that some people focus so much on avoiding damnation they miss out on the fulfillment of self and others that living a moral and good life brings. Heaven and Hell are realities, but we should not live in fear of damnation if we are genuinely seeking God. People who are not genuinely seeking God probably don’t care and will never have a fulfilling life.

Well Stated.

 

[Robert_Burns]

minkymurph, it sounds very much like you have already lost your faith, if you ever really ha dit.

If you truly believe that there is no “right religion”, then you have no faith at all. It is really that simple.

You can call yourself whatever you wish to call yourself, but you obviously do not accept either the teachings or the faith of the Roman Catholic Church. That is sad, for you. It means you either never learned your faith, or that you made your “profession of faith” with reservations, which completely invalidates that process.

You may well be many things, but with the beliefs that you express, you are NOT a Roman Catholic.

Or perhaps he is like the Woman caught in adultery and those sanctimonious Jews with Stones in their hands were justified in throwing them ? We all have peaks and valleys in our Journey - so please do not be too harsh on him - I sense he avoids the Church because of attitudes like yours.

 

[Joan1969]

By “PP” I assume you mean “Pedophile Priest”. This is a revolting term by anyone, especially a Catholic…

Dear Perpetual Help,

You have misunderstood my entire post, which was meant to clarify my other post immediately above. “PP” means "Planned Parenthood. I think you will agree they cover up sex abuse to a much greater degree than certain Church authorities did in the past, and you will see I was defending the Church in both posts.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[ConstantineTG]

It’s a true saying that a little knowledge is dangerous. There is so much information out there people don’t know what to believe anymore.

The problem I find on the internet nowadays is there is a complete lack of knowledge. People feel empowered by the freedom of speech and journalism that most will promote their opinions as fact. And oftentimes these opinions are completely baseless and unfounded. Its so easy to find people who agree with you, no matter how ridiculous your idea is. That is why there is more heresy today than in the past.

 

[corsair]

You are correct, Constantine. Very good response.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

OurLadyPerpHelp;7569943:

By “PP” I assume you mean “Pedophile Priest”. This is a revolting term by anyone, especially a Catholic…

Dear Perpetual Help,

You have misunderstood my entire post, which was meant to clarify my other post immediately above. “PP” means "Planned Parenthood. I think you will agree they cover up sex abuse to a much greater degree than certain Church authorities did in the past, and you will see I was defending the Church in both posts.

God Bless,
Joan

Please accept my most sincere apologies Joan. The “pedophile priest” myth is one of my hot buttons. I am a huge fan of Lila Rose and Live Action. Did you protest outside any Planned Parenthood mills last Monday?

 

[Warrenton]

. I now have a theory. I don’t believe any religion is ‘right.’ There is no such thing as the ‘right’ religion.

I’m late to this party, but I’ll offer you a thought, Minky.

If no religion is “right,” many can be wrong.

Such as, the belief each of us is a little god, fully entitled to oppress others, or not carry our fair share of the work of just living.

One finds this religion quite prevelent. It is exactly that religion that has got so many bankers in trouble all over the world in the last few years.

Discard the “religions” that appeal to such motives, and surprisingly, one is left with a smaller field from which to choose.

Cheers!

 

[minkymurph]

minkymurph, it sounds very much like you have already lost your faith, if you ever really ha dit.

If you truly believe that there is no “right religion”, then you have no faith at all. It is really that simple.

You can call yourself whatever you wish to call yourself, but you obviously do not accept either the teachings or the faith of the Roman Catholic Church. That is sad, for you. It means you either never learned your faith, or that you made your “profession of faith” with reservations, which completely invalidates that process.

You may well be many things, but with the beliefs that you express, you are NOT a Roman Catholic.

Wow! Those are some conclusions to jump to about someone you don’t know from Adam.
Now, if someone who knows me well was to read this, they would be astounded that you that you could form such an opinion. In fact, they would probably think it was funny. I said in an earlier post I have been accused of far more than I have ever been guilty of. Your post is living proof that. I’ve never understood why some posters incorporate such personal attacks into their posts. Obviously they must get something out of it or they wouldn’t do it.

 

[minkymurph]

I’m late to this party, but I’ll offer you a thought, Minky.

If no religion is “right,” many can be wrong.

Such as, the belief each of us is a little god, fully entitled to oppress others, or not carry our fair share of the work of just living.

One finds this religion quite prevelent. It is exactly that religion that has got so many bankers in trouble all over the world in the last few years.

Discard the “religions” that appeal to such motives, and surprisingly, one is left with a smaller field from which to choose.

Cheers!

I did have the idea that while no religion is ‘right,’ there are some that are more wrong than others. I suppose it would be fair to say that even the true religion is not flawless and still leaves something to be desired?

 

[Warrenton]

I did have the idea that while no religion is ‘right,’ there are some that are more wrong than others. I suppose it would be fair to say that even the true religion is not flawless and still leaves something to be desired?

I think that is fair to say.

Some will take issue with me, and say that Catholic theology is flawless, but when we use the term religion, don’t we usually mean the whole kit and kaboodle? If the theology be flawless, but the theologian is flawed, then the religion leaves something to be desired!

What a world!

 

[Joan1969]

Joan1969;7573283:

Please accept my most sincere apologies Joan. The “pedophile priest” myth is one of my hot buttons. I am a huge fan of Lila Rose and Live Action. Did you protest outside any Planned Parenthood mills last Monday?

Hi Perpetual Help,

Apology accepted! I have not been able to do that. I am a supporter of Operation Rescue, which is about as assertive in pursuing PP as Lila Rose.

Have a good evening.

Joan

 

[minkymurph]

I think that is fair to say.

Some will take issue with me, and say that Catholic theology is flawless, but when we use the term religion, don’t we usually mean the whole kit and kaboodle? If the theology be flawless, but the theologian is flawed, then the religion leaves something to be desired!

What a world!

That’s a good way to put it. In addition is salvation all about flawless theology? That’s does not mean we can make things up about God and preach it as truth. It means there is more to the fulfillment of faith than embracing flawless theology.

 

[zab]

That’s a good way to put it. In addition is salvation all about flawless theology? That’s does not mean we can make things up about God and preach it as truth. It means there is more to the fulfillment of faith than embracing flawless theology.

minkymurph,
No, salvation is not about flawless theology. Even though it is true that the Church is infallible in her teachings and that salvation is through the Catholic Church. I know that may be difficult for some to believe or to understand. The questions and thoughts that you have expressed in these threads are natural concerns that many people, including cradle Catholics who are concerned about the salvation of their family members and loved ones and friends who are not Catholic. The answers can be found in church documents that help to explain the teachings. Our late Pope John Paul II wrote many Encyclicals helping us to have a better understaning of Church teachings. Here is a quote from his Redemptoris missio:
Salvation in Christ Is Offered to All
10. The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.
For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal Mystery, went on to declare that "this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone, and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God."19

 

[minkymurph]

minkymurph,
No, salvation is not about flawless theology. Even though it is true that the Church is infallible in her teachings and that salvation is through the Catholic Church. I know that may be difficult for some to believe or to understand. The questions and thoughts that you have expressed in these threads are natural concerns that many people, including cradle Catholics who are concerned about the salvation of their family members and loved ones and friends who are not Catholic. The answers can be found in church documents that help to explain the teachings. Our late Pope John Paul II wrote many Encyclicals helping us to have a better understaning of Church teachings. Here is a quote from his Redemptoris missio:
Salvation in Christ Is Offered to All
10. The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.
For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal Mystery, went on to declare that "this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone, and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God."19

You express some lovely sentiments about you’re faith here. I don’t mean sentiments in the sense that there is no truth just a gut feeling. I envy people who are so comfortable and trusting of their faith and who can articulate it the way you have. So many people just say, ‘obey’ but cannot articulate why. It’s nice to come across someone who can. The most spiritual people I have known, is people who don’t argue and are offended, but quietly state their belief with no fear and without a huge and radical reaction when someone questions.

 

[stevusmagnus]

I don’t believe any religion is ‘right.’ There is no such thing as the ‘right’ religion… I am not a moderneist, I am not a traditionalist. I am Catholic.

Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pius IX

1. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.—Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851.
2. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation.—Encyclical “Qui pluribus,” Nov. 9, 1846.

I have come on this forum to ask traditionalists, can they understand what it is like to completely loose faith in organised religion but not God?

Yes. We’ve lived through the aftermath of VCII.