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Elijah_Baley
Guest
There is one issue dividing the Church in America today, and it is gay marriage, pre-marital sex and contraception (which includes sterilization and abortion.)
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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MarkThompson
Guest
This is a hilarious sendup of the nature of the Trinity. Well played, my friend, well played!
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laszlo
Guest
And many others, like liturgy, obedience to the hierarchy, discipline (including the celibacy of the cradle Catholic priests), annulment of the marriage and so on.
To be Catholic is complex, whole life issue. It can not be restricted to the sex, neither to the life issues.
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puzzleannie
Guest
those are several issues, and no the Church is not divided, although many Catholics do not know, ignore, or blatantly reject Church teaching.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
I’ll go with Annie. The Church is NOT divided. Individuals within the Church have many divisions, complex and multifactorial, but I would also venture to say that every last one of those is rooted in one thing --pride.
Even those who are on ‘the side of the angels’ in opposition to evil are responding, as it were, to the pride of those who have set themselves up as the ones who can ‘choose’ what they wish over what God has taught.
Even those who are on ‘the side of the angels’ in opposition to evil are responding, as it were, to the pride of those who have set themselves up as the ones who can ‘choose’ what they wish over what God has taught.
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smithm29
Guest
I would say there is one issue that leads to heresy, apostasy, and loss of salvation, and the issue is submission to the teaching authority of the Church. Like Tantum above said, this single issue is caused most often by the sin of pride.
The Church herself is not divided, but the lack of submission makes her far smaller than she appears.
The Church herself is not divided, but the lack of submission makes her far smaller than she appears.
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ProVobis
Guest
In America, these issues divide the whole country, not just Catholics.
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ManOnFire
Guest
The roots of all 3 can be found in our pursuit of entertainment media for the Self. If we grew up in a rural area, not exposed to entertainment media, we could much more likely live as good Catholics without all these temptations which are leading us astray.
The entertainment media has distracted the attention of too many men away from the loving home relationship. The entertainment media has created a perceived need for consumerism, which compels people to spend more time at work to make more money. This takes men away from family time. If men were home more to validate and approve their boys into young men, then there would be less men who seek the approval and validation in the eyes of other men if their dads could have been home to fulfill their needs. Since dad prefers women, some boys will even try to be girls in order to gain dad’s approval. My heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to them. We could help them through their pain, but their chief activists have already unilaterally made the decision for 100.00% of them by pushing for a declaration of normalcy, instead of healing through education of the causes. Premarital sex and abortion would be far less common if the entertainemnt media would stop profitting from our basest desires.
The entertainment media has distracted the attention of too many men away from the loving home relationship. The entertainment media has created a perceived need for consumerism, which compels people to spend more time at work to make more money. This takes men away from family time. If men were home more to validate and approve their boys into young men, then there would be less men who seek the approval and validation in the eyes of other men if their dads could have been home to fulfill their needs. Since dad prefers women, some boys will even try to be girls in order to gain dad’s approval. My heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to them. We could help them through their pain, but their chief activists have already unilaterally made the decision for 100.00% of them by pushing for a declaration of normalcy, instead of healing through education of the causes. Premarital sex and abortion would be far less common if the entertainemnt media would stop profitting from our basest desires.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
The Church is not divided. Because people are disobedient, it doesnt mean the Church is divided. this comes from the theology that people are the Church, which is not. Remember that Jesus said, God can make children out of stone. When people leave, teh church remains to teach the next who will come.
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laszlo
Guest
Individuals would not count. Members of the teaching office, bishops differ among each other and from Rome. . Thus far there is no formal schism, but unfortunately it ios possible. The deepest difference is the annulments. The dissenters related to the Liturgy were in narrow minority on the last vote (185 : 26)
Naturally every dissent is the lack of humility: pride, but apparently groups are forming, showing that the dissent is more than individual pride.
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Rence
Guest
I think people are going to do what they want to do, and live the way they want to live. Some will choose to follow the rules of the Church and some won’t. I think that’s pretty obvious.
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otjm
Guest
Actually, decrees of nullity are not the problem; they are at least a step possible towards a solution.
We would not have decrees of nullity if people entered into sacramental marriages. The issue goes far, far deeper than marriage tribunals; it goes the catechesis - people are not taught to follow Christ, and are not taught meaningfully what the Church professes. Add to that the status of the world around us - materialism, secularism, relativism to point out three of the biggest issues in general society today - and it is no wonder that people in their youth and teenage years are so impacted by what the world holds up as the way of life. and when children are not taught the value of self-sacrifice but rather taught self-indulgence, it should come as no surprise that they do not enter into sacramental marriages.
The tribunals have barely even begun to scratch the surface of the problem.
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da_nolo
Guest
yea, these do not separate the Church, it clarifies it. People who ignorantly take no consideration for truth and arrogantly refuse to learn/study truth cause separation.
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GloriousOrder
Guest
As has been said, the Church cannot be divided. Individuals in the laity with unorthodox theological opinions do not make the Church. Remember when our Lord told us to sort out heretics at first one-on-one, and if the heretic refuses to recant, bring a friend to talk to him? If he yet refuses to recant again, you alert the Church; if he refuses to hear the Church, he is anathema. Simply because many of us are too afraid of ridicule to correct heresy does not mean the Church is split between heretics and orthodox people. 
There’s the Church, and there are heretics.
Talk about “division” and “split” make the Church out to be a political party of sorts. The Pope is always gossiped about in this fashion in popular media. They talk about his “positions” and the Church’s “stances” on things. How ridiculous!
There’s the Church, and there are heretics.Talk about “division” and “split” make the Church out to be a political party of sorts. The Pope is always gossiped about in this fashion in popular media. They talk about his “positions” and the Church’s “stances” on things. How ridiculous!
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Elijah_Baley
Guest
Amend it to read: “American Catholics.” The Church is not split, of course, but American Catholics are led astray by examples like Pelosi, Cuomo, or just about any Kennedy.
My point, as I had hoped to express it: These three issues are essentially the same issue. Sexual morality and the family is so tightly woven together that it is impossible to oppose fewer than all of them with any clarity.
Which makes the New York Times that much more frustrating.
My point, as I had hoped to express it: These three issues are essentially the same issue. Sexual morality and the family is so tightly woven together that it is impossible to oppose fewer than all of them with any clarity.
Which makes the New York Times that much more frustrating.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
“There is one issue dividing the Church today…”
- gay marriage
- contraception
- premarital sex
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ProVobis
Guest
Is that Panglish for “Aren’t those three issues?”Isn’t that three issues?
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
LOL! I was kidding of course! I call it red neck talkin’! LOL I considered saying “ain’t that three issues?” but that sounded way too insulting! LOL I’m not trying to insult, just give a chuckle! 
Is that Panglish for “Aren’t those three issues?”
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manualman
Guest
Nah, those are just symptoms, not the actual dividing issue.
The real divide is between those who believe that God uses miraculous intervention to infallibly guide the doctrinal teaching of His Church and those who don’t. The issues you identified are just SOME of the ways the latter category show themselves.
The real divide is between those who believe that God uses miraculous intervention to infallibly guide the doctrinal teaching of His Church and those who don’t. The issues you identified are just SOME of the ways the latter category show themselves.
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otjm
Guest
I don’t think it can be said that there is one dividing issue; people are not that homogenous. It should not be assumed that poeople who are not properly catechized are obstinate in their opposition to one or more issues. Some would be, even if properly taught; others would amend their ways.
One can go on and on about various issues - e.g. Modernism (even if one does not have an accurate definition of such error - or even know where it actually applied), Secularism, Relativism, Materialism, and any number of other issues that have impacted both the public in general and Catholics in particular.
The whole discussion has a tendency to revolve around what is perceived to be wrong with the Church in America; ignoring the far worse problems in Europe, ignoring the causes in Latin America, ignoring the issues in Africa, and totally unobservant of issues in the Middle East and the East. As such, it becomes somewhat insular, and tends to circular arguments.
At the very root of it all is the impact of evil, and of Evil. The forms under which it appears are many, but the issue is hardly new; it is just that because of the internet, it bubbles up to the surface more frequently in discussion.
One can go on and on about various issues - e.g. Modernism (even if one does not have an accurate definition of such error - or even know where it actually applied), Secularism, Relativism, Materialism, and any number of other issues that have impacted both the public in general and Catholics in particular.
The whole discussion has a tendency to revolve around what is perceived to be wrong with the Church in America; ignoring the far worse problems in Europe, ignoring the causes in Latin America, ignoring the issues in Africa, and totally unobservant of issues in the Middle East and the East. As such, it becomes somewhat insular, and tends to circular arguments.
At the very root of it all is the impact of evil, and of Evil. The forms under which it appears are many, but the issue is hardly new; it is just that because of the internet, it bubbles up to the surface more frequently in discussion.
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